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Old 2013-03-03, 13:44   Link #521
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Left alone to bear a life long regret with the evil side of Yuuko appearing in front of her everyday to remind her regret and pain.
Everyday? I don't see any mention of Shadow Yuuko visiting Yukariko everyday.
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Old 2013-03-03, 13:47   Link #522
bumbayker
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Regardless of influence and intentions, the ends do not justify the means.
I will not be please with the manga if Yukariko ends up forgiven and unpunished...and no, the guilt she felt all those years as she built family and lived her life does not constitute as nearly enough of a punishment.

That said...I'm sure Yuuko will forgive her and Yukariko will get off scotch free.
I agree to that. However as the saying goes "Desperate people resort to desperate measures". Not to say that sacrificing Yuuko was justified. But when you see people dying and suffering from disease each and everyday and have no means of stopping it people would resort to some of the most illogical methods in hopes it will go away.
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Old 2013-03-03, 13:52   Link #523
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Everyday? I don't see any mention of Shadow Yuuko visiting Yukariko everyday.
Just added that on, maybe I read into it too much when Yukariko said that evil Yuuko look the same throughout the years. It is not everyday, lets say often. Lets leave it at that, its a minor issue.
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Old 2013-03-03, 14:03   Link #524
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by bumbayker View Post
I agree to that. However as the saying goes "Desperate people resort to desperate measures". Not to say that sacrificing Yuuko was justified. But when you see people dying and suffering from disease each and everyday and have no means of stopping it people would resort to some of the most illogical methods in hopes it will go away.
Like you said, it wasn't justified either. Again, things like desperation, outside influence and so on are not excuses for killing someone and should be met with appropriate punishment (in this case...it needs a heavy punishment).

Most of the reason this chapter enraged me so much (especially since I already knew it was coming) is because I know that in the end Yukariko will be forgiven and receive no punishment. We have enough of that BS in real life...don't need it in my manga too >_>
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Old 2013-03-03, 14:04   Link #525
Seitsuki
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
So if everyone said that you should kill someone because it benefits everyone, would you do it? Take for instance the Holocaust as a giant broaden view of your idea, a lot of people were convince or was force to convince that the Jews were the source of their problems and mostly everyone agreed that removing them from Society would be better for everyone. We saw how that turned out didn't we. I really do not see the logic in that and we see the consequences of Yukariko's actions. The spread of the plague didn't stop, Yukariko's father committed suicide, and the one person who have been there to ease her worries, Yuuko, she killed. Left alone to bear a life long regret with the evil side of Yuuko appearing in front of her everyday to remind her regret and pain.
Riiight, so was Germany like to the Jews 'yeah terribly sorry about all that, killing millions of you and ruining/driving out millions more, very remorseful, we won't do it again promise, want some cookies'? Of course they had to make physical reparations as well. All this talk of guilt is cheap. Did guilt stop her having a fulfilling life? 'Oh, I'm haunted by my sister's evil ghost now and then, but that's been throughout my life, while my sister only had to suffer through the pain of an untreated broken leg, being forced to crawl about in a tiny room in her own waste, slowly dying from dehydration and starvation, with the knowledge her own little sister whom she loved and would have done anything to protect had done this to her. We are sooo even'.

And as Randrak said, the worst part is there is literally nothing the story can do about it now. 'Revenge' would go against the whole point of the story. So basically Yukariko gets off scot free. That's the part which burns.
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Old 2013-03-03, 14:08   Link #526
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Riiight, so was Germany like to the Jews 'yeah terribly sorry about all that, killing millions of you and ruining/driving out millions more, very remorseful, we won't do it again promise, want some cookies'? Of course they had to make physical reparations as well. All this talk of guilt is cheap. Did guilt stop her having a fulfilling life? 'Oh, I'm haunted by my sister's evil ghost now and then, but that's been throughout my life, while my sister only had to suffer through the pain of an untreated broken leg, being forced to crawl about in a tiny room in her own waste, slowly dying from dehydration and starvation, with the knowledge her own little sister who she loved and would have done anything to protect had done this to her. We are sooo even'.
I did say it was a giant broaden view of an idea, doesn't mean there isn't repercussions for actions. Of course it isn't even, not by a long shot. I didn't mean to bring any sensitive topics in this thread just stating an example of an idea in a broaden view.
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Old 2013-03-03, 15:46   Link #527
ellifeedn
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What do suppose would happen if someone were to call the police and tell them there is a body?
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Old 2013-03-03, 17:44   Link #528
NeutralZero
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At this point of the game/story revenge is always pointless and more self-destructive than constructive...
The end never justify the mean... never...
And the process is more important than the product
But yeah Yukariko getting off scot free with all this will really burns... Karma Houdini in a way or two just rub us the wrong way... unless there will be an excessive drama/exchange between the sinner (Yukariko) and the victim (Yuuko)
@ellifeedn
If the police were to find it out then things will likely blow out of proportion with media following, buzzing and snooping around for scoop... after all that form of scandal is just too good to let go...
But the shadow Yuuko... is it really just a manifestation of Yuuko's negative emotion or it is in a way a fusion of both Yuuko negative emotion (probably 30%) and Yukariko's guilt (70%)

Last edited by NeutralZero; 2013-03-03 at 17:51. Reason: add on
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Old 2013-03-04, 00:00   Link #529
Starshipw
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
If the police were to find it out then things will likely blow out of proportion with media following, buzzing and snooping around for scoop... after all that form of scandal is just too good to let go...
That is exactly what is needed. I will really rage if the school is pulled down on top of Yuuko's body. It is not enough that a couple of high school kids and one guilty old lady know her story. The whole community needs to be confronted by what was done in their name and shoulder their portion of the guilt as much as the sister does. So bring on the news cameras and internet bloggers and make Yukariko tell the story to the world.



PS: Let's ban Nazi references from the forums. They almost always form bad, excessive, or inappropriate arguments and seldom do anything but sidetrack the discussions.
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Old 2013-03-04, 01:11   Link #530
Dauerlutscher
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Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
That is exactly what is needed. I will really rage if the school is pulled down on top of Yuuko's body. It is not enough that a couple of high school kids and one guilty old lady know her story. The whole community needs to be confronted by what was done in their name and shoulder their portion of the guilt as much as the sister does. So bring on the news cameras and internet bloggers and make Yukariko tell the story to the world.



PS: Let's ban Nazi references from the forums. They almost always form bad, excessive, or inappropriate arguments and seldom do anything but sidetrack the discussions.
I thought all of the people who were responisble and guity for what happened are dead? How can they shoulder it when no one of them is alive?
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Old 2013-03-04, 03:31   Link #531
NeutralZero
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Yukariko is still alive...
The only remaining guilty party that tries hard to cover everything by bringing down the old school building...
Those/some that have died have the decency to left an epitaph depicting their sins...
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Old 2013-03-04, 07:25   Link #532
JokerD
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In 60 years has Yukariko done anything to seek forgiveness? From what we're shown, she had a pretty good life, a house, a school headmistress, at least a child (although presumed deceased) and a grandchild. Knowing where the body of the sister she condemned to death in vain was, did she ever moved it to her family grave? (no) Unless we are later shown solid proof of her regret and her attempts to atone I'm afraid she's gonna be a hate figure.

It would be poetic justice if she dies and is condemned to be a ghost because of her regret...
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Old 2013-03-04, 08:10   Link #533
MrTerrorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Yukariko is still alive...
The only remaining guilty party that tries hard to cover everything by bringing down the old school building...
Those/some that have died have the decency to left an epitaph depicting their sins...
Yukariko is trying to make amends by trying to find a way to ease her sister's spirit so she can moved on to the afterlife. However, all her work throughout the years did nothing as Shadow Yuuko was still there, believing she stills hates her for what she did, unaware that Shadow Yuuko is just a split personality of Yuuko's hatred while the other one, the good Yuuko doesn't have those bad memories and her past life since she subconsciously forced them into Shadow Yuuko since she doesn't want to blame Yukariko for what she did.

Yukariko may have lived a longer life and had a family but she is never happy since no matter what she does, her sister's spirit is never in peace as she remains on Earth, which hurts Yukariko. That is Yukariko punishment, forever seeing the ghost of her sister hating her as a constant reminder of the sins she had committed.


It's seems to me everyone has different opinions on what Yukariko did on whether she was evil or misguided, already punished or not punished, should be forgiven or not, etc

Whatever the reason, i suggest we should all refrain from talking about Yukariko for now until the next chapter is out or we might end up bringing in unwanted topics into this thread.
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Old 2013-03-04, 08:15   Link #534
ellifeedn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
In 60 years has Yukariko done anything to seek forgiveness? From what we're shown, she had a pretty good life, a house, a school headmistress, at least a child (although presumed deceased) and a grandchild. Knowing where the body of the sister she condemned to death in vain was, did she ever moved it to her family grave? (no) Unless we are later shown solid proof of her regret and her attempts to atone I'm afraid she's gonna be a hate figure.

It would be poetic justice if she dies and is condemned to be a ghost because of her regret...
And then Teiichi has two ghost girls?
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Old 2013-03-04, 09:39   Link #535
NeutralZero
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist
Whatever the reason, i suggest we should all refrain from talking about Yukariko for now until the next chapter is out or we might end up bringing in unwanted topics into this thread.
Point taken here... further discussion without the next chapter will end in a stand still
but...
Quote:
Yukariko is trying to make amends by trying to find a way to ease her sister's spirit so she can moved on to the afterlife.
Using your views and words here, for last discussion...
Not what she had done... so far or for the past XX years...
But if you or others is in her position, what's the very first logical manner to do to ease the spirits of the dead?
In different anime, media or culture is/are concern, isn't having a proper burial for the diseased the first thing they usually do? that or having put talisman unto the area where the dead lays...
Then follows the prayer for the dead Christians do...
Then there's the mahjong thing shown in xxxholic based on some Chinese belief
and such... to ease the soul/grievance of the dead...
If by chance it was true that she is trying to make amends, how come one of the most basic practice wasn't / hasn't been done so far?
And compare to that method, how come she prefer to decimate the whole building itself?
which is well if all things put into an account is more and much of a hassle thing to do....
Is she 100%trying to make amend or 70% trying to cover things up to foolishly ease her guilt and satisfy her ego with 30% amendment?
Current question for the current chapter that may be answered in the next 2 or more chapter...

Last edited by NeutralZero; 2013-03-04 at 10:05.
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Old 2013-03-04, 11:41   Link #536
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Yukariko may have lived a longer life and had a family but she is never happy since no matter what she does, her sister's spirit is never in peace as she remains on Earth, which hurts Yukariko. That is Yukariko punishment, forever seeing the ghost of her sister hating her as a constant reminder of the sins she had committed.
The poor thing was never happy while raising a family and living life for all those years, that's certainly enough punishment for killing your sister in such a horrible manner (and inadvertently leading to the father's suicide).
No...wait...nope, no it isn't.

Man...at least the anime version wasn't this rage inducing or controversial as all those to blame eventually got killed off by the plague.
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Old 2013-03-25, 23:43   Link #537
ReaperxKingx
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New chapter is out, what is everyone's thoughts?
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Old 2013-03-25, 23:45   Link #538
Shadow5YA
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Now that the two Yuukos are one again, I wonder what will happen to her personality. Is the whimsical Yuuko who loves Teiichi gone for good and replaced with a more serious Yuuko? Would she ever forgive Yukariko?

Time to wait another month to find out.
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Old 2013-03-25, 23:50   Link #539
ReaperxKingx
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Now that the two Yuukos are one again, I wonder what will happen to her personality. Is the whimsical Yuuko who loves Teiichi gone for good and replaced with a more serious Yuuko? Would she ever forgive Yukariko?

Time to wait another month to find out.
No, its more like two halves just rejoined. The Dark side well is her memories of hate, all the good and memories that Yuuko had with Teiichi is still there. The next couple of chapters will show the reaction of both Yuuko and Teiichi. Yuuko and Teiichi loves each other, now they are saying to themselves "I allowed my beloved to experience that", in general moments like these defines a couple. Sometimes lies are made to protect the person you loved, but if Yuuko and Teiichi really do love each other then need to accept the experience. Its going to be interesting, also we are only in vol 7. It still goes to volume 8 and is ongoing as well, so there are more conflicts after this.

There is generally no wait time, it just that translation are coming out slowly. Information is from Baka-Updates.
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Old 2013-03-25, 23:58   Link #540
Randrak42
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From a rage inducing chapter to a painful one.

But atleast the flashback is over, not that I didn't like it...but I'm not used to...so many emotions D:
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