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Old 2013-03-03, 13:02   Link #12561
Guernsey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
Is t medakas happiest time in her life should be the time when zenkichi proposed to her ? It seems battles are the only thing medaka lives for .
She is a shonen hero and that is what shonen heroes do most.
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Old 2013-03-03, 14:31   Link #12562
kenjtr
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
She is a shonen hero and that is what shonen heroes do most.
Still thats a little too sad since luffy is enjoying his adventures but he also treassures the time he spents in his ship with his friends also he really doesnt get involved if its something that doesnt concern him , unlike that medaka looks for trouble all time and she doesnt enjoy simple joys of life at all . Both medaka and luffy are shounen heros but i like luffy when i hate medaka also i think medaka is the disgrace of all shounen heros , not that because she is a women but because she is a bitch .
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Old 2013-03-03, 15:04   Link #12563
K. Shiruto
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^I'm unable to understand one single word of what you just said. Medaka is rather legit. A disgraceful main would be someone like Ichigo from Bleach, the worst shounen with the worst hero I've ever read.

But I won't further enter in these comparisons.
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Old 2013-03-03, 15:42   Link #12564
DawnEmperor
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@Kurusu You hate Ichigo? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of him either, but I wouldn't say he's the worst hero i've ever read.

Throwing my two cents regarding Medaka Box overall, I think part of the problem is that as a parody and deconstruction, it does have to take a specific route. Medaka's parody of the shonen hero is merely one kind of shonen hero. Even as one of the most prevalent kinds of heroes, a hero or protagonist isn't something which can be easily pigeonholed, so sometimes it verges on shallow parody. Yes, being the main character affords certain privileges(since it is their story), but there's really no guarantee what kind of story they get.

I view Medaka and Zenkichi as something of a deconstruction and reconstruction of heroic archetypes. Medaka has been endowed with a lot as a protagonist, being near invincible, talented in everything, and by the end of the series has learned empathy. But gradually she realizes that she doesn't really have a concrete goal that's truly hers so has to search for it. Zenkichi embodies the hard-working character without natural talent, who may never take the spotlight but has his own victories, and gradually becomes someone who can support others in addition to Medaka.
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Old 2013-03-03, 16:28   Link #12565
K. Shiruto
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
@Kurusu You hate Ichigo? Granted, I'm not a huge fan of him either, but I wouldn't say he's the worst hero i've ever read.
More than him I hate the series as a whole.

Quote:
I view Medaka and Zenkichi as something of a deconstruction and reconstruction of heroic archetypes. Medaka has been endowed with a lot as a protagonist, being near invincible, talented in everything, and by the end of the series has learned empathy. But gradually she realizes that she doesn't really have a concrete goal that's truly hers so has to search for it. Zenkichi embodies the hard-working character without natural talent, who may never take the spotlight but has his own victories, and gradually becomes someone who can support others in addition to Medaka.
It's supposed to be viewed this way by the reader. Nisio purposely made Medaka the kind of main she's to make a contrast with her and Zenkichi, nothing else.
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Old 2013-03-03, 17:49   Link #12566
DawnEmperor
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[QUOTE=Kurusu-Shirudo;4576346]More than him I hate the series as a whole.

"Ichigo, your mother is a quincy!!!111"

I kind of get annoyed by him since he seems to mainly go between moping(I couldn't protect!) or blood knight, where it gets hard for me to really sympathize with him; the former because he really doesn't address the people he's trying to protect, or how they feel. I know he's the Jerk with the Heart of Gold but sometimes I just find him too prideful(alright enough about Bleach).


Quote:
It's supposed to be viewed this way by the reader. Nisio purposely made Medaka the kind of main she's to make a contrast with her and Zenkichi, nothing else.
Nothing else what? They're not just there to contrast each other, even if that's why they're co-protagonists
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Old 2013-03-03, 18:13   Link #12567
K. Shiruto
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My head hurts from reading that messed up english.

And I liked this and every arc, just in case you want to know.
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Old 2013-03-03, 18:55   Link #12568
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While making Medaka terrible does seem to have been the author's intention, and that definitely serves as an explanation, it will not always serve as an excuse or justification, as a user in another forum once posted.

While making her dislikeable does serve to make the characters around her, mainly Heat with whom she currently clashes with most as seen in their ways of dealing with the Ultimate Destroyer, feel more dynamic and interesting and relatable, it's unknown if Nishio knows the amount of disdain that this has bred for Medaka in the fanbase. No-one wants to follow a story about a character who is unrelatable, boring, who can do anything through virtue of her overpowering, Mary Sue personality(her skill).

And I'll admit, while even the next chapter does preview with "What is Zenkichi up to now", meaning obviously Nishio intends, yet again, to contrast recent events, It wasn't worth it for some readers from the start because they had to follow an unlikeable protagonist, but for some people, it was.

For me? Hm. I kinda identify with the "not worth it" group, because it is pretty grating to read sometimes.

Not that it's a bad gimmick, one has to recognize it's usefulness and effect, but I think the story would be fine without it.
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Old 2013-03-03, 21:14   Link #12569
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
While making her dislikeable does serve to make the characters around her, mainly Heat with whom she currently clashes with most as seen in their ways of dealing with the Ultimate Destroyer, feel more dynamic and interesting and relatable, it's unknown if Nishio knows the amount of disdain that this has bred for Medaka in the fanbase. No-one wants to follow a story about a character who is unrelatable, boring, who can do anything through virtue of her overpowering, Mary Sue personality(her skill).
Why should Nisio care what a vocal minority of fans think about Medaka again? He has his own ideas and plans for Medaka's character and he's gone through with them well, in my opinion at least. He can't go around changing the manga every time some fans complain, or he'd drive himself into destitution.
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Old 2013-03-03, 22:26   Link #12570
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Oh, don't misunderstand.

Nishio knows exactly what his intentions were for the Medaka character, he knows the kind of beast he has created, it's just not clear if he understands the depth of the contempt he wanted to create. It's pretty clear through the manga that he intended for Medaka to be terrible/disliked, just look at the most recent poll. He uses her as a vortex for shounen tropes and people's frustrations with them as a method of contrast to her peers, her side characters.
"Side-characters" is a term I use loosely, though, because they're really the meat and fat of the manga, as far as content goes.
And through use of that contrast, Nishio makes his side-characters look and seem more dynamic and interesting. Yes, it's sort of cheap, but it's a trick that works to great effect.

The question he has to ask himself, though, is if it was worth it, or still is. For some, it never was, but for others, the trick still plays to great use. It's Nishio's "Status Quo", if you will. Current events clearly are either building up to another contrast event, or the actual elimination of that plot device altoguether. Namely, killing off Medaka. I, for one, would enjoy seeing what a story like that would play out. Maybe it's a chance for Nishio to put even more effort into his characters, good as they already are, now that he might not have that almighty vortex of shounen Mary-Sueness to aid him.

And yes, I'm mostly parafrasing people off other forums(mostly NF), I'm not a plagiarist! But I really have to give credit where credit is due when someone catches on to something.
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Old 2013-03-03, 22:36   Link #12571
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Oh, don't misunderstand.

Nishio knows exactly what his intentions were for the Medaka character, he knows the kind of beast he has created, it's just not clear if he understands the depth of the contempt he wanted to create. It's pretty clear through the manga that he intended for Medaka to be terrible/disliked, just look at the most recent poll. He uses her as a vortex for shounen tropes and people's frustrations with them as a method of contrast to her peers, her side characters.
"Side-characters" is a term I use loosely, though, because they're really the meat and fat of the manga, as far as content goes.
And through use of that contrast, Nishio makes his side-characters look and seem more dynamic and interesting. Yes, it's sort of cheap, but it's a trick that works to great effect.

The question he has to ask himself, though, is if it was worth it, or still is. For some, it never was, but for others, the trick still plays to great use. It's Nishio's "Status Quo", if you will. Current events clearly are either building up to another contrast event, or the actual elimination of that plot device altoguether. Namely, killing off Medaka. I, for one, would enjoy seeing what a story like that would play out. Maybe it's a chance for Nishio to put even more effort into his characters, good as they already are, now that he might not have that almighty vortex of shounen Mary-Sueness to aid him.

And yes, I'm mostly parafrasing people off other forums(mostly NF), I'm not a plagiarist! But I really have to give credit where credit is due when someone catches on to something.
You're free to your opinion, but I don't think Medaka was created for people to hate her, I think she was created for people to question her, to question why exactly she is the way that she is, and how she affects the people around her with that distorted way of life she had.

I seriously doubt the only thing he intended people to hold Medaka in the sort of seething contempt you have of her, certainly we aren't intended to always agree with her, but we're supposed to think why we don't agree with her, not to blindly hate her.
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Old 2013-03-03, 23:00   Link #12572
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Wolfenstein, I honestly think that likability is an iffy factor to judge upon. I know you feel that the way the series plays with tropes doesn't change the fact that certain characters may be presented as unlikable, but it's a matter of cogs in the overall story. I guess in the end we do have to separate our character preferences and plot preferences with the execution of the story and the way it makes us think.
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Old 2013-03-03, 23:08   Link #12573
taichi-kun
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Very disappointed with medaka,she didn't say her last good bye to zen and was flirting with kumagawa.What a Bitch,she should remain dead haha

I'm getting tired of this manga,the moon stuff was just stupid.

Sorry medaka fans,but that's my opinion.
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Old 2013-03-04, 07:34   Link #12574
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
Wolfenstein, I honestly think that likability is an iffy factor to judge upon. I know you feel that the way the series plays with tropes doesn't change the fact that certain characters may be presented as unlikable, but it's a matter of cogs in the overall story. I guess in the end we do have to separate our character preferences and plot preferences with the execution of the story and the way it makes us think.
I don't know, bro. Obviously, there will always be people who enjoy Medaka's character for her traits...

But...I've never seen such a collected opinion on the fact that a character was meant to be terrible in a single fanbase.

I mean, she's definitely not supposed to be the character you cheer for. Let's type in "Medaka Box character popularity poll" on google and see what the first non-jump result yields us:

46 - Misogi(understandable)
27 - Heat(understandable)
6 - Medaka(understandable?)
5 - Others

http://forums.mangafox.me/threads/27...opularity-poll

That's a...pretty glaring disparity there. Even worst counting the fact the poor gal already lost top-three position in Japan. Maybe this was Nishio's plan. I mean, certainly could be given how his use of the character dosen't actually change much at all from the beguinning of the manga where she explicitly and undoubtedly was made the Mother of all Sue's, to later be deconstructed in the Election year(though admittedly, with very little results shown).
Maybe he's rectifying a mistake or just concluding his plan now. After all, this ending was incredibly out-of-the-blue and rushed.

What I mean is: to most, the side-characters are what makes and breaks the manga. People read Medaka Box for Misogi and Heat(the majority at least), for Naze, for Shiranui, for Tsurubami, for Ajimu, for Emukae, for Kei, and most importantly, for Nienami. I'm sure some people read the Manga singlulary for it's seeming protagonist, though, not saying those don't exist.
You kinda see what I'm getting at, don't you? She's, at the very least, not the kind of protagonist designed to be more relatable/likeable than her supporting cast.

To me, It's more like Medaka's cog, her usefulness, is that she elevates the characters near her. I can recognize and respect that she does, indeed, have a use to the story, but it's a sort of gimmicky form of story-telling that I think was never really nescessary.

Sure, it's just a hypothesis. but you must admit: it's pretty darn interesting one, when you think about it.
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Old 2013-03-04, 08:35   Link #12575
silvercover
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using MF heh...

anyways, to tldr you're post, you mean that is he maybe going a bit too far with making medaka dislikable?
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Old 2013-03-04, 08:39   Link #12576
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by silvercover View Post
using MF heh...

anyways, to tldr you're post, you mean that is he maybe going a bit too far with making medaka dislikable?
I just typed "Medaka Box character popularity poll" on google and used the first result. What's wrong with that place?

And somewhat. I understand why he does it, but I don't think it's nescessary. Anymore. At the very least, I'm sure we all wonder what the manga's story would be like without her.
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Old 2013-03-04, 08:43   Link #12577
ccie20012
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Medaka (as is portrayed) is very heterogeneous throughout the manga.
There is an arc (call them romcom arc's) - where she's cute and nice girl.
For example the top of this: Jet Black Bride Arc.

IMHO:
A character ruined for the sake of shounen trolling.
Or trolling romcom fans (if you look on the other side).
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Old 2013-03-04, 09:04   Link #12578
silvercover
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
I just typed "Medaka Box character popularity poll" on google and used the first result. What's wrong with that place?
nothing really. just that im from MF and the medaka box forums is where I can be found other than the arena section.

but its also that that one is pretty old. and that from looking at the other poll in there, majority of the people want medakaXzenkichi.
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Old 2013-03-04, 09:13   Link #12579
Wolfenstein
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Well, you catch the drift.

People don't really enjoy the manga's protagonist alot. Mostly, they do enjoy Misogi. Secondly, I'd guess would either be Ajimu or Zenkichi, or Naze. Then you'd get to the other interesting characters, like Bami, Emukae, Shiranui, Kei, among others.

I don't think it's a coincidence that I first liked Zen, then I liked Misogi. I think that's a desired effect.
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Old 2013-03-04, 09:32   Link #12580
ccie20012
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In my opinion the root of "problem" in mix of genres.
In terms of a romantic comedy, this arc is superfluous.
In general, history was completed on previous arc.
Promise to marry each other - is usually the final of stories.
Further continue nowhere - only afterwords ... It has been many years ... happy family and a lot of children.

Although one possible option: promise ... all good ... internal problems ... break (drama) ... reunion
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