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Old 2013-03-06, 12:47   Link #21
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm kind of expecting the ability to pop up during the upcoming fight between the fathers.
I hope not. I am liking this blast from the past with ninja being sneaky ninja. Well, ninja with magic powers. Rather than the full blown wizards/mutants Kishi would later make them.
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Old 2013-03-06, 12:50   Link #22
Miraluka
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Young Madara is the only likeable Uchiha so far and at the same time their friendship(with Hashirama) seems legit unlike Sasuke and Naruto... which is far from real.
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Last edited by Miraluka; 2013-03-06 at 13:09.
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Old 2013-03-06, 13:05   Link #23
james0246
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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
There's a major difference. They talk. A lot and about their dreams and hopes, finding that they have that in common.
You can have a strong connection with someone without using words or liking the same things. Sasuke and Naruto grew from dislike, to gradual understanding and camaraderie, to acceptance, and finally friendship (even brotherhood). Their relationship was long and well fought and it was explored through individual actions (with real consequences) not just words.

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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
The plans they've made to improve the world show how these two have a deeper connection than Sasuke and Naruto did.
I do not see this as meaning they have a deeper connection, just that they have shared goals.

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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Madara doesn't even have the whole superiority complex thing Sasuke did which is surprising. Hashirama was better in some skills already as shown by the rock skipping thing but Madara doesn't go "OH NOES, HE'S BETTER THAN ME". They even fool around with each other with both playing the idiot (seriously, this kid Madara is the most likeable Uchiha for me so far).
Madara and Hashirama are certainly more traditional in their growing friendship (strangely enough, even though they live in a hellish environment, they are less fucked up than Naruto and Sasuke), but I do not see it as being more or less "believable" than Naruto and Sasuke's (though I do acknowledge that they come upon their friendship from a different perspective than Naruto and Sasuke).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
I hope not. I am liking this blast from the past with ninja being sneaky ninja. Well, ninja with magic powers. Rather than the full blown wizards/mutants Kishi would later make them.
I'm already expecting the MS to pop up next chapter, so why not Mokuton as well? Best to get it all out of the way sooner rather than dragging down the flashback unnecessarily.
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Old 2013-03-06, 13:12   Link #24
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Well, we'll just have to disagree there then. I don't think any friendship with little communication where one side is feeling smug superiority over the other can be a strong and close one.
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Old 2013-03-06, 14:28   Link #25
itachi-san314
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Much better than the last chapter.
I totally agree. i'm over the fact that's it's another unneeded kid flashback. i really liked this chapter a lot. i didnt see the dual warning coming. thought it was a nice little twist
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Old 2013-03-06, 14:30   Link #26
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I would have to reread the earlier chapters but I think this friendship is/was being developed better than the naruto sasuke relationship. Which Imo always seemed forced. I can only recall development being made during battles and. Such. But not the easy going, slice of life they are showing us with hirashima and madara.

Great chapter and great last page makes you want to see more. This story can probably be its own spinoff.
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Old 2013-03-06, 14:39   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellal View Post
That's probably the most likely thing to happen.

If I do remember correctly, didn't Izuna and Madara start sparring until they eventually reached MS?
Also, I do recall Madara or I think it was Tobi, stating he fought the 1st many times to death, in the battlefield.

Clearly there has to be some reason that leads Madara to strive to kill his childhood friend. I doubt the 1st would kill Izuna unless he was forced to, since the 2nd seems to have more of there fathers ideals towards giving no mercy to uchiha.
It was probably Tobi. And he's lying as usual.

To stop the battle, both must get stabbed by their respective comrades or bid their time (the battle meant nothing, but they won't let their sacrifices be in vain, and thus, they become future leaders or something).
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Old 2013-03-06, 16:02   Link #28
Ero-Senn1n
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A probable course of event would be that this clash will see the death of Madara's father in a way that makes the Uchiha siblings feel responsible for, awake the MS as a result and drive an edge between Madara and Hashirama.
Years later Madara went blind, Izuna offered him his eyes and subsequently died in battle possibly at the hand of a Senju which sent Madara further into hatred with the final straw happening when his clan finally chose Hashirama over him as leader because they saw him as a warmonger who caused his brother death out of greed for power.
And there we go from a nice kid striving for peace to the melodramatic, egomaniacal and overpowered undead we got to know.
But if it happens like this then where comes the "kill your best friend for MS" and "kill your brother for EMS" come from? I'm not sure how much is true of what Itachi told to Sasuke about Madara, but at least part of it should be true since Sasuke went into the secret Uchiha shrine to check what's written there and apparently Itachi didn't lie to him about how to obtain MS. It was obvious from the beginning that the rules for obtaining better eyes are too specific, so i guessed that such specific rules simply come from Madara. The whole thing became a bit messy by now, we have both Itachi and Tobito telling the story of Madara but we don't know what's true of all this. Until the 1st hokage doesn't tell the whole truth.
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Old 2013-03-06, 16:16   Link #29
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The end of the chapter was good, the other parts were average, but not in a bad way.
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Old 2013-03-06, 18:25   Link #30
~Yami~
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omg.... so what's going to happen will be their father are killing each other and Tobirama kills Izuna..

years after, that will lead to that Kyuubi Vs 1000-hands Buddha summon flashback

after they settle Konoha, Madara still hold grudge because Tobirama kills his beloved little brother then fight with Senjuu in the valley

no wonder why Madara pays a high respect toward Senju (he showed this during battle with Kages)... And Konoha got a really beautiful history because of Hashirama and Madara's friendship...

because only Sasuke will know this story, don't tell me he's tempted to be a Hokage
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Last edited by ~Yami~; 2013-03-06 at 23:49. Reason: thanks Hunter-sama
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Old 2013-03-06, 18:26   Link #31
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
But if it happens like this then where comes the "kill your best friend for MS" and "kill your brother for EMS" come from? I'm not sure how much is true of what Itachi told to Sasuke about Madara, but at least part of it should be true since Sasuke went into the secret Uchiha shrine to check what's written there and apparently Itachi didn't lie to him about how to obtain MS. It was obvious from the beginning that the rules for obtaining better eyes are too specific, so i guessed that such specific rules simply come from Madara. The whole thing became a bit messy by now, we have both Itachi and Tobito telling the story of Madara but we don't know what's true of all this. Until the 1st hokage doesn't tell the whole truth.
The awakening of the MS requires the pain caused by the death of one closest to you and killing your best friend fits the bill just fine. You don't have to kill your brother to have an eternal MS, you only have to take his eyes (I'm assuming it'd work with parents too it seems to be more of a genetic compatibility problem).
Itachi is a liar, simple as that, 99.9% of what he said when alive was flat out bullshit meant to lead Sasuke where he wanted. He wanted Sasuke to be Madara's (ie Obito) ennemy so he painted him in the worst possible light but now both Obito and Hashirama has confirmed that it was false and that Madara cared deeply for his brother.
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omg.... so what's going to happen will be their father are killing each other and Tobirama kills Madara..
You mean Izuna perhaps?
Anyway that's not possible (at least not until many years), Izuna lived long enough to gain the MS along with Madara and then for Madara to lose his sight and take his eyes
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Old 2013-03-06, 19:04   Link #32
Dengar
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Yet... The Mangekyou Sharingan we've seen on-screen actually were achieved by killing their closest friends (I'm fairly sure the manga stated that Itachi assisted in Shisui's suicide) (although those acts themselves weren't shown onscreen).

I'm not saying it is the only way. But there aren't many things that are such a powerful contradiction. I mean, if you're truly willing to kill someone to obtain more power, you can't really call them your closest friend.

On the other hand, if circumstance forces you to kill them, that's a different matter.


...


Well, maybe Shisui's eyes were awakened differently, I'm not sure. Anyway, the assumption that killing your best friend = Mangekyou isn't exactly wrong. It can't be just any old loss though. Guilt probabably is a factor, but not any old guilt.
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Old 2013-03-06, 20:37   Link #33
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You have to feel extreme guilt and pain to awaken MS. Killing your best friend is a good way to do that, simple as that. Sasuke didn't kill his best friend, he killed itachi who he hated, but after finding out the truth about itachi the pain he felt for killing him awakened his MS. Tobirama already stated the sharingan gets more powerful through emotion.

Idk exactly how shisui got his MS, but I do know he did something he really regretted to awaken it.


Also, there are plenty of ppl in this world who would kill their closest loved ones if they were offered a billion dollars for it, don't underestimate lust for power, it's what makes the world go round.
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Old 2013-03-06, 20:58   Link #34
itachi-san314
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^exactly. people need to stop believing the 'closest friend' line. it never really made much sense anyway. now that we have tobirama's explanation of the chakra in uchiha's minds, it all makes sense. no matter how people want to look at things, itachi was never sasuke's closest friend. sasuke's MS wasn't even awakened after killing him. all the sharingan evolutions are about a flood of emotion up until and including MS. EMS is where it gets dicey and adds a genetic implantation component to the evolution
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Old 2013-03-06, 21:22   Link #35
yogotah
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Amazing chapter, in my opinion of course.

As an amateur philosopher (I'm taking it as a minor in school), I can relate to the idealism that both Mardara and Hashirma exhibits in their childhood/ early teens. They are living in the worst conditions possible, where they see their fellow friends and even family member die on a daily basis, and instead of letting the darkness of their environment taint them, they reject their world and think about how to make it better.

I mean these are kids...this is incredible for them to have this much maturity and intelligence...I personally find it extremely intriguing.


Now as far as the way their friendship is portrayed...I mentioned this on the last chapter blog, but this is how real friendships are formed...and this is NOT a parallel with the Naruto and Sasuke friendship..it's just not the same dynamic. Not to say that one dynamic is superior to the other, but this dynamic is a breath of fresh air.


These are two peers with the same level of power, intelligence, and aspirations....there is a mutual respect of each other, and they even looked out for each other during the ambush. Seeing all of that, I couldn't help but hope that the story would end well, and these two kids would be friends for a very long time and achieve their goals. But this the problem with flashbacks, no matter how you like a particular situation, you always know what the outcome will be. You might not know the specific twist, but you know the ending...which sucks in this case. What will drive the wedge between these two peers? Family, clan, jealousy, an accident or misunderstanding??


I'm sure Izuna isn't dying here, that's not coming up until way later in the story line.

All in all, very good chapter, and can't wait for next week. These flashbacks are amazing and I don't think I would get tired of them any time soon, the insight that this give are priceless in my opinion.
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Old 2013-03-06, 22:02   Link #36
Alchemist007
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I wonder how many of these former friendships are reconcilable. Hell maybe Madara will make up with post-mortem Hashirama.
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:28   Link #37
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Wonder if we will see any female uchiha kunoichi in this flashback where there are many uchiha. It would be a way of Kishi creating a powerful female character for a change, auto-win eyes.

Maybe being male is also a pre-req for sharingan. Given that emotions create the eye power an hoe b*tches be crazy, you would think there would e a noteable female uchiha... Or maybe I just want to see some susanoo tits
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:30   Link #38
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Fyi "hoe" was a typo and iPhone won't let me edit the post.
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:12   Link #39
Kenu
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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
I would have to reread the earlier chapters but I think this friendship is/was being developed better than the naruto sasuke relationship. Which Imo always seemed forced. I can only recall development being made during battles and. Such. But not the easy going, slice of life they are showing us with hirashima and madara.

Great chapter and great last page makes you want to see more. This story can probably be its own spinoff.
C'mon, you're confusing the recent rubbish with some classic Kishimoto. The early chapters of Naruto were good. In particular their first mission for the Great Naruto Bridge. Naruto and Sasuke had their relationship solidified quite early on with the Haku fight.
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Old 2013-03-07, 09:06   Link #40
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^^^^^I think the Madara/Hashirama flashback is hands down some of Kishi's best work through this whole series.

Not only is the backstory pivotal to the main story, it's being told extremely well, the characters are being developed very well. It has the early naruto feel of ninjas using their minds to trick opponents compared to how they overwhelm them with power now.

I have loved this flashback from the start, so maybe my opinion is biased. But i think you can compare this part of the naruto story to any other great part, and it'll do more then hold it's own imo.
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