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Old 2013-03-07, 01:31   Link #2641
The Small One
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I think the recent revelations are okay, but so far, there in nothing in it, we didn't already guess before. A lot of people guessed Issin was part of the Shiba and everyone expected him to be a captain (well some even thought him to be royal guard).

And I don't see any problem about the „nobody recognizes him“. Just think about it: This guy got very old. In just about 20 years, he got older by 20 years (human aging). A normal Shinigami would need hundred of years to get this old, so even if someone sees the resemblance, they couldn't accept him to be himself, since he is too old.

Another thing is: Not every Shinigami knows every captain. That's actually a matter I already mentioned way back during SS arc. The Gotei 13 is a military and in a military, you normally know only the people of your own chain of command, but not every general there exists.


Something else about the chapter: Did Tousen really say, that they hollowfied Hollows?This doesn't really make any sense, they are already hollows.

So every Asauchi in all of SSis made by Ouetsu? Which basically means he is the only person in all of SS who is able to create the base for a Zanpakutou. (Which BTW puts Ichigo on the same level as him, since he could create his alone) The Vandenreich should have gone after him a long time ago then SS would be without weapons sooner or later.
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Old 2013-03-07, 01:58   Link #2642
Kon the Magnificent
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Originally Posted by Sasukemaru View Post
She wasn't unconscious she looked right at him when he landed and put Isshin down...

Not to mention after Ichigo face palmed Aizen away she had to be sitting next to Isshin for a good 20 minutes while ichi fought aizen.

The chances of her not noticing her old captain who has been missing for about half a century laying 10 feet from her are about slim to....not a chance in hell.
I have to agree on this. They may have talked during the final bout between Ichigo and Aizen. It may have happened off screen. We'll have to wait to see how Kubo pull this off.
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:40   Link #2643
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If Isshin was just a normal shinigami and was around when Aizen was making sure all of the upper echelons had seen his shikai, how was Isshin able to fight on par with (and at times surpass) Aizen in Fake Karakura? If he'd been training, that might make more sense, but he'd not been using his powers for at least the last 16 years - even if Aizen decided not to use his hypnosis, the power differential should have been such that Isshin would be on the ground with the rest of Aizen's victims
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:44   Link #2644
Kon the Magnificent
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Maybe Isshin skipped out on Aizen's demo, you know, most likely napping in a tree at the time, sounds like something he would do. History does prove this to be true when it comes to his personality.
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Old 2013-03-07, 04:16   Link #2645
dragonmeister
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Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
I have to agree on this. They may have talked during the final bout between Ichigo and Aizen. It may have happened off screen. We'll have to wait to see how Kubo pull this off.
Isshin was unconscious and facing the other direction (at least in the anime - it's not shown in the manga), and Matsumoto was consumed with grief (and hence distracted) - Kubo may try to use this as a way of getting round it if he forgot they were in such close proximity (although it may all be part of one great big loose end tier ) - not saying it would be the best excuse, but it could potentially work

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Originally Posted by Kon the Magnificent View Post
Maybe Isshin skipped out on Aizen's demo, you know, most likely napping in a tree at the time, sounds like something he would do. History does prove this to be true when it comes to his personality.
I guess so, but if so Aizen continues to disappoint - Isshin was all part of one of his grand plans, and he never managed to sneakily expose him? That would be quite a fail (although not his worst fail, unless this is just as planned
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Old 2013-03-07, 05:48   Link #2646
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
You overestimate Soul Society. This is the group that allowed Rukia to be executed just because she shared her powers with Ichigo to stop hollows
that was Aizen's doing in the name of C46, this decision was also questioned by many because it was very drastic

and some Shinigami did act against it(and the law), remember Shunsui and Ukitake destroying the Sokyoku?
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Old 2013-03-07, 09:22   Link #2647
Sasukemaru
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All criticism aside, I did like this chapter for what it wa...and this arc has been a breath of fresh air in some regards..

But honestly, these plotholes Kubo leaves in his story telling are ridiculous. It's like he doesn't even care...you can't even call what he does plot holes, they're god damn plot canyons..

A hole can be filled, a canyon? No.
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Old 2013-03-07, 10:54   Link #2648
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Really? I just recently watched the SS arc and I can't for the life of me remember anyone using the term. Maybe it was a translation thing.
I've read this since the beginning and I don't remember hearing about asauchi.

I just realized A Pimp Called Slickback called Renji out on knowing that Ichigo would probaly get booted.

I did like this chapter though and so far, Kubo hasn't pissed me off TOO much about Isshin's past though a thought has occured to me though:

He did techincally defeat Aizen while Aizen was in the last throes of shinigami-ism and he's only a regular captain? Wouldn't that put him on par with Shunsui and Uki then?

On the downside, if Isshin's getting his backstory now, I hope that means he doesn't die. As much as Kubo is a troll and obviously doesn't give two shits about Bleach anymore(hence the plotholes), I can't picture making the girls orphans.
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Old 2013-03-07, 11:02   Link #2649
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Flashback death thing mostly works only on bad guys.
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Old 2013-03-07, 11:11   Link #2650
Kanon
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Asauchis were first mentioned when Ichigo battled his inner hollow for the first time. Zangetsu handed him one. I think they were brought up again during one of the flashback chapter taking place at the academy.
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Old 2013-03-08, 03:10   Link #2651
quigonkenny
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I'm starting to think they might not be playing the Ichigo isn't a Shinigami card so much as Zangetsu never was an Ausachi since Ichigo formed it from a broken hilt so Ouetsu can't reforge it only Ichigo can
Not even that. He formed his current (well, most recent, before the Quincies whacked it) Zanpakuto from the hilt of his first one. He formed that one out of nothing.

Or I guess I shouldn't say "nothing", as it was probably just ambient spirit particles. Who are those guys again who can do stuff with ambient spirit particles...?

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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Kinda begs the question as to what Isshin's family name was beforehand...

...Not. It was obviously Shiba. Kubo's given far too many hints toward that end already.
**Does the Snoopy dance**
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Old 2013-03-08, 04:36   Link #2652
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Three things about this chapter:

Isshin confirmed to be a Shiba, though only a branch member. Makes one wonder what happened to the other branch members after he disappeared. Also confirmed to be captain of 10th division, thus debunking the royal guard theory for good.

Hitsugaya as 3rd seat during this time and training for Bankai as well , which explains how he became captain after Isshin.

The explanation of where Kenpachi's Zanpakuto came from. Suprised this hasn't been mentioned more, seeing how he was the main focus not long ago.

As for Isshin not being recognised by the Gotei 13 I don't think they would believe that the captain of the 10th division and member of a noble house is the same person as a medical doctor and single father of three. Besides all their attention was focused on Ichigo and not his family.
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Old 2013-03-08, 10:24   Link #2653
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by bonsobon View Post
As for Isshin not being recognised by the Gotei 13 I don't think they would believe that the captain of the 10th division and member of a noble house is the same person as a medical doctor and single father of three. Besides all their attention was focused on Ichigo and not his family.
yea, who could possibly guess that the father of the strongest 'shinigami' fighter was also a strong shinigami? ludicrous!
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Old 2013-03-08, 12:02   Link #2654
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Seeing Aizen again put a smile on my face
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Old 2013-03-08, 16:37   Link #2655
Casshern
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I thought he was going to look directly at the reader and say Since when were you under the impression that this wasn't all my plan
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Old 2013-03-08, 19:03   Link #2656
bonsobon
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
yea, who could possibly guess that the father of the strongest 'shinigami' fighter was also a strong shinigami? ludicrous!
Well Soul Society probably believed that there was no need to factor in Isshin when they found out that Ichigo received his powers from Rukia. This was likely reinforced when they discovered his involvement with Urahara and what they believed about the man.
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Old 2013-03-08, 20:11   Link #2657
saravis
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Well Soul Society probably believed that there was no need to factor in Isshin when they found out that Ichigo received his powers from Rukia. This was likely reinforced when they discovered his involvement with Urahara and what they believed about the man.
Except that Byakuya, Renji, and Rukia all witnessed Ichigo losing the powers he had gotten from Rukia. So at least those three should have known that there was a different source to Ichigo's power.
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Old 2013-03-09, 03:58   Link #2658
quigonkenny
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Except that Byakuya, Renji, and Rukia all witnessed Ichigo losing the powers he had gotten from Rukia. So at least those three should have known that there was a different source to Ichigo's power.
When Ichigo released Bankai during his fight with Byakuya, Byakuya was still under the impression that Ichigo had just stolen his power from Rukia. It's one of the reasons he was so incredulous about Ichigo even being able to keep up with him, much less go Bankai or beat him outright.

Something people tend to forget is that the vast majority of characters in the series know far less about the goings on in the series than the readers do. Most events that take place in Karakura are unknown to the denizens of SS, and vice versa. Events that took place during the flashback arcs might be well known to some of the people around at the time of those arcs, but none of the "human" characters (I'm including Ichigo and Ishida here, even though neither is strictly "human") know anything about those events beyond what has been told them in the series, and even younger shinigami like Rukia are likely in the dark about most of it. Anything Ichigo went through in training is unknown to anyone other than Urahara or Yoruichi or Isshin (depending upon which training you're thinking of). Concerning recent events, we should assume until shown otherwise that no one other than Kenpachi, Shunsui, Yachiru, or Isane know that Unohana is now dead, much less how she got that way.

One thing to Kubo's credit is that he doesn't subscribe to the theory that everyone that is more "in the know" than our protagonist is therefore omniscient or ludicrously intuitive (other than Urahara, Aizen, and possibly Juha Bach as the Big Bad du Jour). People (other than the above) tend to know what they ought to know (and not know what they shouldn't) and act accordingly. This doesn't mean I'm now assigning Kubo massive story-planning skills on par with an Akamatsu Ken or Hiromu Arakawa, as I think he still pulls most of the plot progression out of his ass, but at least he has by and large kept character knowledge vague enough that current events and actions are at least reasonably (in not always desirably) explainable in-universe.

Still waiting to see how he explains Misaki being so old, though, unless Quincy aging just grinds to a near standstill once adulthood is reached. It would explain Bach being a contempory of the literally ancient Yama-jii (although I imagine there's more to him than just Quinciness), and I don't think we have ever been told exactly how old Ryuuken is...
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Old 2013-03-09, 05:34   Link #2659
saravis
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
When Ichigo released Bankai during his fight with Byakuya, Byakuya was still under the impression that Ichigo had just stolen his power from Rukia. It's one of the reasons he was so incredulous about Ichigo even being able to keep up with him, much less go Bankai or beat him outright.
I swear you people must be watching a different version than I am or something.

Byakuya attacked his soul link and soul whateverother. Renji, Rukia, and Byakuya all confirmed then that even if Ichigo did manage to survive the attack, he had still lost his Shinigami powers. Byakuya was even wondering when the two of them were clashing, where Ichigo had gotten his new found powers, but at the time he was rather preoccupied with killing Ichigo or whatever it was he was planning on doing. Fact still remains that he knew that Ichigo didn't have Rukia's powers anymore because Byakuya, himself, was responsible for taking them away. You don't think it should have occurred to any of them, Ichigo included, to wonder where the heck this new source of power came from. As for him being incredulous that was because to him it was an absurd idea that Ichigo had acquired bankai in days rather than years.
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Old 2013-03-09, 05:58   Link #2660
bonsobon
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I swear you people must be watching a different version than I am or something.

Byakuya attacked his soul link and soul whateverother. Renji, Rukia, and Byakuya all confirmed then that even if Ichigo did manage to survive the attack, he had still lost his Shinigami powers. Byakuya was even wondering when the two of them were clashing, where Ichigo had gotten his new found powers, but at the time he was rather preoccupied with killing Ichigo or whatever it was he was planning on doing. Fact still remains that he knew that Ichigo didn't have Rukia's powers anymore because Byakuya, himself, was responsible for taking them away. You don't think it should have occurred to any of them, Ichigo included, to wonder where the heck this new source of power came from. As for him being incredulous that was because to him it was an absurd idea that Ichigo had acquired bankai in days rather than years.
As I said earlier, when Soul Society found out about Urahara's involvement with Ichigo they probably felt no need to look further than that. After all they thought he turned shinigami into hollows. Why couldn't they also think he could turn humans into shinigami as well?

As for Ichigo he was only concerned about regaining his powers to save Rukia to care about where they came from.
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