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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 24 39.34%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 23 37.70%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 13.11%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 6.56%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.64%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.64%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-08, 01:01   Link #41
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I honestly liked the various imaginary conversations. I'll grant you that it's a little bit cliche, but I felt it was a reasonably effective way of exploring Akane's psyche, and her internal conflict over what Sybil has posed to her.
I like cliches as long as they're executed well. The problem with all the words is that they're repetitious and boring, and the imagery that accompanies all that dialogue is boring, and the background music is boring. There wasn't any clever or insightful or though-provoking dialogue found in all those words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It also gives us the closest thing that we're probably going to get to a meaningful philosophical discussion/debate between Akane (the main protagonist) and Makishima (the main antagonist). I'd prefer "the real thing", but I doubt Makishima will be in the mood for much philosophizing while he's busy trying to destroy Sibyl Japan's food supply.
You're underestimating Makishima - I'm pretty sure that we've got a monologue or two (or three ) from him yet. And I'm dreading all of it.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't know. Akane goes from knocking out Makishima and choosing to spare him in spite of Kougami's wishes, to saving Kougami in spite of Sybil's wishes, to what she's done this episode.
Akane was thinking in terms of reviving a judicial system to try Makishima - she already wrote off the Sibyl System as useless in regards to him (episode 18).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Again though, this has little to do with order of society. Sibyl has maintained a peaceful society until Makishima threatened it. There is a reason Akane did not immediately go "fuck you" to the system and help destroy it.
That's because she's still on the verge - she's still wavering.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Because he's a unique individual. Like they said, any system will have its bugs and it is impossible to compensate for all of them. That's why they see him as valuable, so they can get closer to perfection.
He's not so unique that Akane can't figure him out. Moreover, the Sibyl System can't figure out Akane either - they thought that she was certain to be obedient, but the first thing she does is blackmail them over Kougami.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I have no idea what you're trying to say here, or how this is a rebuttal to anything, if at all.
When most of the words are about the Sibyl System, the subject isn't going to be about Makishima. Psycho-Pass is about the Sibyl System and its flaws. The main question is whether it's preferable to keep it and its flaws, or to overthrow it and replace all that it provides to the country.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:13   Link #42
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The problem with all the words is that they're repetitious and boring,
Imaginary Makishima didn't say anything that we wouldn't expect Makishima to say. So yes, it's somewhat repetitious. But it's not that repetitious to Akane. So the key takeaway here is getting Akane's take on Makishima's philosophy. We now know where she disagrees with him, and (probably more importantly) where she agrees with him.

That's an important takeaway, as you yourself seem to recognize.


Quote:
Akane was thinking in terms of reviving a judicial system to try Makishima - she already wrote off the Sibyl System as useless in regards to him (episode 18).
My first thought was "How the hell is she going to do that?"

Then I remembered that there are former Japanese lawyers somewhere based on what was revealed last episode. Even if they are too old to be active lawyers again, I suppose you could have them train a new generation of lawyers. Maybe slowly transition from Sibyl justice to a more conventional judiciary.

I doubt that Sibyl would want that, though.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:13   Link #43
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
That's because she's still on the verge - she's still wavering.
So what is it you believe she's going to do exactly? You seem pretty certain so enlighten me.

Is she going to reform the system, destroy it, or help the system?

The wavering btw is because the Sibyl has a point she cannot deny. This is not a black and white issue, else the decision making here would be fairly easy for her.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
He's not so unique that Akane can't figure him out. Moreover, the Sibyl System can't figure out Akane either - they thought that she was certain to be obedient, but the first thing she does is blackmail them over Kougami.
Does she really understand? She only said she has an idea of why he does the things he does. That's not understanding. Sibyl already knows what Makishima preaches, but precisely because they can't think exactly like him is why they want him.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
When most of the words are about the Sibyl System, the subject isn't going to be about Makishima. Psycho-Pass is about the Sibyl System and its flaws. The main question is whether it's preferable to keep it and its flaws, or to overthrow it and replace all that it provides to the country.
And Makishima is a perspective on the Sibyl System and its flaws. So he's quite relevant.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:30   Link #44
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Such a good episode! It is a bit disappointing that most people's suspicions were confirmed and the brains were all criminally asymptomatic as expected, but given how glorious the rest of the ep was, I don't care.

Akane was great this ep. So determined, so intelligent! So cool. Maybe she's working with Sybil for now, but it's hard to believe that she'll be fine with being their puppet in the long term. She's not going to stand for it, and she even negotiated her own terms for saving Makishima. I particularly liked the way that she reminded Gino of Kougami, the way that she felt she understood Makishima a little, and her conversation with her friends and Kagari. Once this is over, Akane might be able to work out a way forward...that is, if Sybil doesn't decide to kill her once it has Makishima's sweet, sweet brain in a box.

...I really hate that Kagari is confirmed 100% stone cold dead, though. I liked him. I suppose the way the series has been going, there wouldn't have been any real screen time for him if he'd still been alive, anyway. Yayoi and Shion have had hardly any. I think Masaoka and Gino will still have some more in them, though.

By now, the second OP has really grown on me. The lyrics are appropriate and the animation is also very nice. I like the new puzzle effect they've had for the past few eps.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:38   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A system does not need to be ruthlessly utilitarian in order to be a good system.
The problem with your statement is the insinuation that a system like Sybil is ruthlessly utilitarian. I don't think it's inherently ruthless at all, and if it was really ruthless it wouldn't have worked, and it shows in many aspects of the system, as it weighs hue enforcement with some element of anarchy in the expression of what free will it allows members of its society (one might argue a truly ruthless system would simply lobotomize everyone into automatons).

Or, perhaps a better way of putting it is that whenever it may appear to be ruthless, the perceived action isn't done with being ruthless in mind. Any ruthlessness inherent in the system is a side effect, and not a driving force. TL;DR: Intent matters.

I do not believe a system with the goal of Sybil can be accomplished weighed down by individual-scale morality. I reject the premise that by not concentrating on individual-scale morality that the system has to be ruthless.

I will say that a system that is primarily concerned on individual-scale morality can not be a good system (on the scale we're talking about concerning this show; like physics, I think the rules change based on the scale ), with the understanding that the world isn't black and white and that alternatives to such an approach doesn't require being <insert any of the many extreme adjectives you can imagine>.

Does that mean I would like to live in such a system? No, of course not. But, I'm selfish. In the more chaotic societies we live in in real life, I'm firm in the belief that I can (and do) better than in a society like one envisioned by Sybil, even if it means many others do worse.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:52   Link #46
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The problem with your statement is the insinuation that a system like Sybil is ruthlessly utilitarian. I don't think it's inherently ruthless at all,
It is very ruthless. Ruthless simply means "Without compassion or pity". Sibyl demonstrates a complete lack of compassion for individual people. This is clearly evidenced by what happened to Kagari, and by how Sibyl wanted to kill Kougami. Neither of these people deserved to die on the basis of any crime they committed. Rather, they were simply in Sibyl's way, so Sibyl wanted them dead. That's definitely ruthless.


Quote:
and if it was really ruthless it wouldn't have worked,
Plenty of long-lasting historical governments had ruthless leadership. Consider Joseph Stalin for one.


Quote:
I do not believe a system with the goal of Sybil can be accomplished weighed down by individual-scale morality.
What do you mean by "individual-scale" morality?


Quote:
... with the understanding that the world isn't black and white
The world as a whole has some moral ambiguity and nuance, but some things truly are morally unacceptable. Racist laws would probably be a good example of this.

A strong case can be made that some elements of Sibyl do in fact cross the line.
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Old 2013-03-08, 01:55   Link #47
4Tran
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Thinking on it, there is one decent thing that came out of episode 20. There seems to be a consensus now that Akane is the main protagonist.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The wavering btw is because the Sibyl has a point she cannot deny. This is not a black and white issue, else the decision making here would be fairly easy for her.
It's too early for her to decide. Akane will reject the Sibyl System in either the last or second last episode.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Does she really understand? She only said she has an idea of why he does the things he does. That's not understanding. Sibyl already knows what Makishima preaches, but precisely because they can't think exactly like him is why they want him.
If the Sybil System understood that Makishima actually meant what he preached, they would have never given him an option to join. The collective doesn't get him or Akane at all.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
And Makishima is a perspective on the Sibyl System and its flaws. So he's quite relevant.
Makishima only touches on one aspect of the Sybil System. His importance is mostly to act as a catalyst, and maybe as the key to the finale. The rest is due to its own actions and its inherent makeup.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
So what is it you believe she's going to do exactly? You seem pretty certain so enlighten me.

Is she going to reform the system, destroy it, or help the system?
REJECT. The visual imagery indicates that the production team wants the viewers to hate the Sibyl System. One does not accept a murderous ghoul controlled by psychopaths.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking at OP2 again, there's a shot where Akane and Kougami have their weapons pointed at Makishima. But what if Akane isn't aiming at him, but rather at Kougami behind him? She's holding a Dominator so it wouldn't work against Makishima, but it'll be fine against Kougami. I can see this happening if she wants Makishima's plan to succeed.

(And of course, the Dominator would be set to lethal mode for extra pathos.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
By now, the second OP has really grown on me. The lyrics are appropriate and the animation is also very nice. I like the new puzzle effect they've had for the past few eps.
After they finished up the artwork, the second OP is the best part of the show.
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Old 2013-03-08, 02:09   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Ultramarinus View Post
They are well aware for many years that asymptomatic people exist, constantly assuming that such criminals will just kill a couple people here and there and do NOTHING ELSE is flat out retarded. Who is to say that a serial killer will not decide to rack up their kill count by attacking a facility which is the nutrition backbone of the country? Heck, even normal people can still run around and kill stuff, it takes time for law enforcement to reach them.

But again and again, security measures are somehow devoid where Makishima decides to operate. It happens too frequently and too conveniently.

It does not matter if scans would be helpless or not, why is such a facility less protected than a simple mall? It makes no sense at all.

Identification that could be stolen anyway, a card amounts to nothing if it does not match the carrying person. I honestly cannot believe that the writer expects us to believe security technology in 2100 is behind 1950. Oh and of course, there is no human around to see he is just showing cut fingers and eyeballs to enter deepest reaches of the facility. I guess they never could expect such barbarism!

Then do the worst case! Makishima practically walks into anywhere he wants during the course of entire series, does not matter if it is the ministry, whole food stocks of the country or whatever. I will not be surprised if he walks into the bureau and kill all divisions singlehandedly next to be honest. He has become a Mary Sue of a villain really.

Why would not anybody work there to oversee the operation? What do those people do for a living anyway? Everybody should be unemployed if such a critical facility is deemed unworthy for a couple of people to look over.

Infinitely small, heh. Yeah well, they were aware that Kougami was the only person who could locate Makishima and they still tried to kill him. Makes no sense whatsoever when they could have just sent some droids or whatever to follow him around and just zap him down when he found him, then just arrest Makishima. Instead they reveal themselves to some gal whose only competence is following the explicit instructions that Kougami left behind..

Oh well, 250 brains and they all do not amount to one intelligent person!

Akane could just go public: Whole system collapses, Makishima and other criminals in the system are dealt with, safety of Kougami and her is ensured, justice prevails and so on.

I guess it will go worse towards the finale from now on... Sigh...
There is a point to this you realize...it shows just what a failure the abomination known as Sybil is. The reason for such crappy security is the overreliance on Sybil in the first place.


Rather than worst protected....you should say, the laziest, one of the most pathetic societies ever conceived

Quote:
Society under Sibyl is peaceful, but society under Sibyl doesn't allow the splendor of the human soul to shine. That seems to be Gen's argument against Sibyl. He is a proponent of chaos. Life just isn't as fun when a system decides everything for you. Gen likes free will, or at least the illusion of it .
All of us love chaos and doing whatever we want deep down inside.
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Old 2013-03-08, 02:24   Link #49
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
It's too early for her to decide. Akane will reject the Sibyl System in either the last or second last episode.
She will make a decision in the last couple episodes. That much is certain.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
If the Sybil System understood that Makishima actually meant what he preached, they would have never given him an option to join. The collective doesn't get him or Akane at all.
Well if they understood exactly what he'd do, they wouldn't want him in the first place. The reason they gave that offer is because Makishima only sees value in decisions that human beings personally make. So if he joined of his own will, that would add value to his decision, rather than forcing him. Sibyl tried to peacefully absorb him into the system and Touma thought he had a convincing argument for Makishima, but apparently Touma was naive.

Again though, asserting that Akane understands Makishima any better does not seem quite right either. She doesn't understand the mind of a sociopath like Makishima.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Makishima only touches on one aspect of the Sybil System. His importance is mostly to act as a catalyst, and maybe as the key to the finale. The rest is due to its own actions and its inherent makeup.
Yes, but that one aspect is what has been touched upon repeatedly in this show. Gen hasn't really given much focus to Sibyl's other flaws. Unless you want to ignore the narrative that is...

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
REJECT. The visual imagery indicates that the production team wants the viewers to hate the Sibyl System. One does not accept a murderous ghoul controlled by psychopaths.
Reject it entirely or partially? Entirely would imply she wants to destroy it. Partially, would mean she only wants to reform it. OR will she actually accept Sibyl?
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Old 2013-03-08, 02:49   Link #50
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
What do you mean by "individual-scale" morality?
I think he's talking about "needs of the many outweigh needs of the few".

Of course based on Fate Zero, I think we can figure out what Urobachi thinks of that particular logic train, even by someone who is genuinely trying to act in a self less manner. I can't imagine we're meant to think very highly of it when it overlaps so heavily with the possibility that Sybil is interested in maintaining its control/expanding its consciousness more than it's interested in helping society.


I mean...the way Latent criminals are treated IS a somewhat eye raising situation, and when you think about it, leads to a bit of a catch 22 setup.


Even if you DID decide that long term latent criminals needed to be segregated from the rest of the population, one wonders why latent criminals necessarily have to be locked away in padded cells. If isolation was the objective, and if Japan's country side is so heavily depopulated, why not establish communes for low threat latent criminals to live in? If Sybil has really given up on these people, why not at least segregate them from society in a more humanitarian way? Everyone has GPS tracking implants installed that can flag nonlethally armed security drones if they leave the commune without permission. Wouldn't this separate latent criminals from the population, while also giving more consideration to their humanitarian well being?

...except if the last half of the Psycho-path season has told us anything, is that something like this wouldn't work. Not because there'd be anything wrong with a commune setup. No. The real problem is on the Sybil systems end.

Mercy and compassion is a luxury of the strong. And if there's been a recurring element to Sybil, is that it's not strong. It's incredibly fragile. In the span of a few episodes, we've seen multiple ways that the system could be destroyed outright by the smallest of groups or individuals. A more regular society could afford to situate more criminally inclined people in the countryside. But a system as fragile as Sybil? It'd be impossibly dangerous. Not to mention the possibility that communities like these might become more innovative and mentally dynamic than the people operating under Sybil in the cities. Even if such communes had to put up with higher internal crime rates, Sybil can't exactly risk the possibility of non approved individuals outshining its groomed citizens.


I think this is something that makes the Sybil system particularly morally repugnant. In order to secure it's rule, Sybil made the population passive, and security forces minuscule and leashed enough to not pose a threat to Sybil. It needs to cultivate weakness. But this very same weakness forces it to be cruel. Sybil can't AFFORD humanitarian treatment for the entity of its population.
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Such a good episode! It is a bit disappointing that most people's suspicions were confirmed and the brains were all criminally asymptomatic as expected, but given how glorious the rest of the ep was, I don't care.
The episode where the HUMAN BRAINS got revealed pretty much stated this information outright. Anyone interpreting it any other way wasn't watching for content, or was just being willfully ignorant.
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Old 2013-03-08, 03:33   Link #51
Moe Connection
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Sybil doesn't make sense at all. The brains were contradicting themselves throughout the episode. It's alright for them to commit murder, but others get terminated if they do so. As if. "It is only logical" that psychopaths Sybil cannot scan should run the place? WTF?
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Old 2013-03-08, 03:49   Link #52
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Sybil doesn't make sense at all. The brains were contradicting themselves throughout the episode. It's alright for them to commit murder, but others get terminated if they do so. As if. "It is only logical" that psychopaths Sybil cannot scan should run the place? WTF?
What's the problem? They are acting like the normal tyrants in history. One set of rules for themselves, a different set for everyone else. This is the sticking point that Akane disagree with; no one is above the law in her eyes.

Sybil thinks Akane is obedient and will obey the law of the land. They didn't realise she expect everybody to follow the same laws. Even brains in boxes.
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Old 2013-03-08, 03:49   Link #53
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I think it would come, sibyl will be judged...it might not be now but it will come
it very much admitted being a bunch of deranged killer brains...

Akane is going full steam bad ass this episode, Sibyl better beware, She has Makishima's abilities and now knows everything too, I think Sibyl misread & underestimated her too much. that was really good how she was shown "conversing" with different people when she was thinking about what Sibyl said though I feel it's not exactly the entire truth. Loved how she finally fully shows her wares as a detective, surprising gino (like always just gawking at the sides)but even yayoi & masaoka. Now I only wish it would not end like that famous gen story once again with a sacrifice >.<, but it will still be epic.
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No, Sibyl said there are some among them that acted more cruelly than Makishima, but it never said all.
Don't know why you would deny it after this episode, or not see it, but take note of the following conversations.
Akane: "if you guys broke the law sometime in the past, you should atone for your crimes in a befitting way" > Sibyl : "Our contributions to society are more than enough compensation for the damage we caused in the past"

Sibyl : "It is true that everyone of us here used to have many problems with our personalities"
"...we were all criminally asymptomatic persons...." that is why Akane said : " Are you saying that Sibyl is a monster that is a collection of wicked people's brains...?"
Sibyl itself admitted to this fact.

to the argument that "evil" or "bad" individual brains together as a whole makes a "good" collective...hmmm color me unconvinced, actually it's more total BS for me. the only reason Akane didn't outright blast them to kingdomcome, is because she IS good and knows there are proper ways with less collateral damage & better chance of success than sudden reckless actions. just like for an addict there has to be gradual rehabilitation. This society has been addicted to Sibyl, yeah it feels good & might look good on the outside but it is not the healthy way especially in the long run. The only question now is how they would do the rehab.A healthy balance between Order & not really "Chaos" but "true living" with individual will
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Because he's a unique individual. Like they said, any system will have its bugs and it is impossible to compensate for all of them. That's why they see him as valuable, so they can get closer to perfection.
the very basis of this statement is questionable, I don't really see this "perfection" Sibyl is trying to attain. Every human is unique in one way or another there really is no cookie cutter mold, sure there are plenty of similarities but no one individual is exactly like another or else we will no longer be human we would be BORG. There will ALWAYS be another makishima, no matter how many brains you add to the matrix. society can only hope to approach this by extreme measures/controls like in most police state propaganda, or like in the education system of Shin Sekai yori. so where does it end when they have a thousand?, a million? when most of the population is merged? Those societies are where progress and development has been stunted. hardly a perfect society. People in Psycho-pass Japan are already towing the line even in things like music, man they can't even do proper security...
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Old 2013-03-08, 04:47   Link #54
pampz21
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Wow...2 more episodes....
Spoiler for Prediction:


I really like the story bcuz its protraying that good and evil are just thoughts that we human created and what matters is the meaning behind those actions!

its like saying lying is bad, but people lie because they wanted to protect something,....Its like saying wishing Happiness is a bad thing!
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Old 2013-03-08, 05:15   Link #55
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The episode where the HUMAN BRAINS got revealed pretty much stated this information outright. Anyone interpreting it any other way wasn't watching for content, or was just being willfully ignorant.
Well, mostly. There was still a possibility, albeit slim, before this ep that they were obtaining some brains which met their criteria (were psychopaths, etcetera) but which hadn't indulged in criminal behaviour and had been identified by some other means. But for them to all be criminally asymptomatic confirms beyond doubt that they all committed crimes. It also appears to zap one of the more sensible theories which had been proposed, that the system was not originally intended to consist only of criminally asymptomatic people and had merely shifted towards them over time and altered its selection criteria, with some non-criminal brains remaining there from before, but very much in the minority. (Really, what idiot thought up the all-psychos brain computer system and decided "Yes, this is such a good idea! Let's do this!" ?...Their brain is probably in Sybil too.)

The all-psychopaths option appeared the most likely option by far, based on the earlier episodes, but I don't like it as a story choice because it makes the Sybil brains plainly evil people and removes ambiguity. It's overkill. And with this ep, it should no longer be possible for anyone to stretch the interpretation of Touma's lines to avoid that. But hey, it seems that right from the time the brains showed up or even before, Urobuchi wasn't aiming for that sort of ambiguity about Sybil in the first place. He's made it very clear that Sybil is bad news.
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Old 2013-03-08, 06:07   Link #56
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I like the character work, Akane really has grown on me. Lost all my hopes regarding the dystopia though, I hope they really concentrate on the characters now and maybe can get back on the same level of episode 19 with some intense interaction.
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Old 2013-03-08, 07:48   Link #57
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Well, mostly. There was still a possibility, albeit slim, before this ep that they were obtaining some brains which met their criteria (were psychopaths, etcetera) but which hadn't indulged in criminal behaviour and had been identified by some other means. But for them to all be criminally asymptomatic confirms beyond doubt that they all committed crimes. It also appears to zap one of the more sensible theories which had been proposed, that the system was not originally intended to consist only of criminally asymptomatic people and had merely shifted towards them over time and altered its selection criteria, with some non-criminal brains remaining there from before, but very much in the minority. (Really, what idiot thought up the all-psychos brain computer system and decided "Yes, this is such a good idea! Let's do this!" ?...Their brain is probably in Sybil too.)
To be fair, the explanation back then (and even now) falls in a weird chicken & egg situation (how can the initial members get such a reading when said system didn't exist in the first place?), but I'll concede to it since they aren't really going to explain beyond that.

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
The all-psychopaths option appeared the most likely option by far, based on the earlier episodes, but I don't like it as a story choice because it makes the Sybil brains plainly evil people and removes ambiguity.
But on the contrary, even Akane reluctantly agrees that the system brought peace and order, taking the common idea of the ends justifies the means (not saying that she agrees with their approach).
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Old 2013-03-08, 09:14   Link #58
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But on the contrary, even Akane reluctantly agrees that the system brought peace and order, taking the common idea of the ends justifies the means (not saying that she agrees with their approach).
Right and this I think is what Urobuchi wants us to get out of this that the sybil system might be beneficial in some ways (although I think the series did a poor job of conveying this).

I kind of agree with Auria that the dystopia aspect and world building in general is a bit weak but I do enjoy the characters and all their different philosophies.

Although we can say most of the ideas and philosophies come from other sources, I do enjoy how Urobuchi made the characters mouth pieces for many different ideas (even if they are not his own) but it's a good way to introduce ideas and arguments into a narrative.

Looking back on this series I really think the dialog will end up being my favorite part of Psycho Pass.

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
You're underestimating Makishima - I'm pretty sure that we've got a monologue or two (or three ) from him yet. And I'm dreading all of it.
You see how people can think so differently. This would be awesome to me (although I am sure there will still be some action).
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Old 2013-03-08, 11:37   Link #59
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I mean...the way Latent criminals are treated IS a somewhat eye raising situation, and when you think about it, leads to a bit of a catch 22 setup.
Your idea of latent criminal communes is an interesting one, and yes, it's definitely more humane than what's basically solitary confinement for life.

But I think I know why Sybil didn't go with that.

In order for people to buy into the Sybil system when it was first introduced, it was probably necessary to make most of them believe that recovery from a bad Psycho-Pass rating or a cloudy hue was a decent possibility. And so people with a bad Psycho-Pass reading are treated like people that need to be locked away in an asylum for treatment. No doubt the official story is that they "get better" there.

Of course, anybody paying attention probably notices that successful rehabilitations are very rare. But then, lots of people probably don't pay such close attention, as we saw with how Yayoi really did think she would one day be successfully rehabilitated and eventually continue her musician dream.

Now, if Sibyl had communes set-up for latent criminals, then it feels less like treating the mentally ill and more like something akin to apartheid (i.e. creating a permanent, segregated subclass of humans). It would basically make the "These people have almost no hope of getting better" fact a bit too obvious and transparent to the general populace. At least that's probably what Sibyl thinks.

One of the big problems with Sibyl is that perception is everything to Sibyl. Treating people humanely is very much secondary to that, if a consideration at all.

So yes, you're right. Sibyl is fragile. Anything that relies completely on a false image is very fragile. Most governments have their dirty secrets of course, but few hide anything on par with what Sibyl hides.


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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
To be fair, the explanation back then (and even now) falls in a weird chicken & egg situation (how can the initial members get such a reading when said system didn't exist in the first place?), but I'll concede to it since they aren't really going to explain beyond that.
I know what you mean here. Incorporating members who "can't be judged" does admittedly strike me as a clever way of dealing with system loopholes. The system deals with all such loopholes by literally absorbing them.

But yeah, what exactly was Sibyl before it noticed the first loophole? I think I would have preferred it if Sibyl was explained to have originally been an AI-based system, but it switched to the multiple brain system after it started running into a lot of loopholes. Eventually, the AI system morphed into an entirely human one.


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But on the contrary, even Akane reluctantly agrees that the system brought peace and order, taking the common idea of the ends justifies the means (not saying that she agrees with their approach).
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Right and this I think is what Urobuchi wants us to get out of this that the sybil system might be beneficial in some ways (although I think the series did a poor job of conveying this).

I kind of agree with Auria that the dystopia aspect and world building in general is a bit weak but I do enjoy the characters and all their different philosophies.
I agree with both of you that Sybil is supposed to come across as making Japan more peaceful, more orderly, and less crime-ridden than what most societies are. Perhaps it's even supposed to appear truly exceptional in these areas.

Here is where I think Gen's limitations as a writer undermine things a bit.

Psycho-Pass really would have benefited from a lowkey "Day Off" episode. Yes, a beach/hot springs episode, basically. More precisely, an episode dedicated to showing the good sides of Sibyl Japan. Lots of happy people, lots of smiling faces, lots of peace and order. Maybe end it off with a cliffhanger where Makishima is shown plotting his next move just so the episode doesn't feel totally fluffy.

But then, I'm not sure if Gen is good at writing this sort of light and fluffy material.


Quote:
Although we can say most of the ideas and philosophies come from other sources, I do enjoy how Urobuchi made the characters mouth pieces for many different ideas (even if they are not his own) but it's a good way to introduce ideas and arguments into a narrative.
I agree with you there. I think Gen is very good at presenting a wide variety of character types and personalities, each representing distinct viewpoints. Things are never completely binary in a Gen work. There's always more than two perspectives or two basic personality types slightly tweaked over and over.

Kougami, Akane, Gino, Kagari, Tomomi, Yayoi, Makishima, and Sibyl itself all have different viewpoints on Sibyl, and all have different viewpoints on the conflicts seen throughout this anime's narrative. No two characters are in 100% agreement, but it's also pretty rare for two characters to be in 100% disagreement (the closest here is ironically Makishima and Sibyl itself; ironic since Sibyl apparently wants to add oil to its water).
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Old 2013-03-08, 11:48   Link #60
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Again though, asserting that Akane understands Makishima any better does not seem quite right either. She doesn't understand the mind of a sociopath like Makishima.
She understands him well enough to have imaginary conversations with him.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yes, but that one aspect is what has been touched upon repeatedly in this show. Gen hasn't really given much focus to Sibyl's other flaws. Unless you want to ignore the narrative that is...
The narrative being that the Sibyl System is flawed? That's been touched on in every episode, and we keep finding new problems with it. This week's new feature is how awesomely secure Japan's food supply is.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Reject it entirely or partially? Entirely would imply she wants to destroy it. Partially, would mean she only wants to reform it. OR will she actually accept Sibyl?
Well, Akane wants the brains-in-a-jar to be tried for their crimes, so that should be a hint.

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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
Sybil doesn't make sense at all. The brains were contradicting themselves throughout the episode. It's alright for them to commit murder, but others get terminated if they do so. As if. "It is only logical" that psychopaths Sybil cannot scan should run the place? WTF?
The Sibyl System has never had the intention of obeying the same laws that the plebes are subject to. It's very much a Rule of Man vs. Rule of Law issue.


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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Right and this I think is what Urobuchi wants us to get out of this that the sybil system might be beneficial in some ways (although I think the series did a poor job of conveying this).
If that were the case, the creators wouldn't have tried so hard to make the Sibyl System look so monstrous. While the show has been ineffective at conveying things like characterization and world building, it's been pretty consistent on this one subject.

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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
You see how people can think so differently. This would be awesome to me (although I am sure there will still be some action).
*shudders*

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I agree with you there. I think Gen is very good at presenting a wide variety of character types and personalities, each representing distinct viewpoints. Things are never completely binary in a Gen work. There's always more than two perspectives or two basic personality types slightly tweaked over and over.
But almost none of them have anything interesting to say.
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