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Old 2013-03-11, 10:42   Link #161
Triple_R
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Just to be clear, I've made peace with the ending to True Tears. I just wanted to help explain where Reckoner was probably coming from, as my own experiences with True Tears is much the same.

That being said, P.A. Works should totally do a Noe OVA.


Clearly P.A. Works wants people to keep remembering True Tears given the way both HSI and Tari Tari referenced it, as well as given the way True Tears is being marketed and sold right now.

The next logical step would be to actually revisit True Tears with a different ending. I have little doubt it would sell well, as True Tears' brand has been helped by HSI and Tari Tari (both of which sold well). I also think that, commercially, True Tears was more a victim of circumstance than anything (i.e. going up against the KyoAni big boys of the time).
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Old 2013-03-11, 19:37   Link #162
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Seriously, no. True Tears has an ending - it doesn't need another one, that's now how it works. If they wanted to make a true sequel with a different storyline, I'd be all in favor, but re-doing the series just to pander to the fans who didn't like the first ending would be about as crass as it gets.
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Old 2013-03-11, 21:36   Link #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Seriously, no. True Tears has an ending - it doesn't need another one, that's now how it works. If they wanted to make a true sequel with a different storyline, I'd be all in favor, but re-doing the series just to pander to the fans who didn't like the first ending would be about as crass as it gets.
Question: Do you think that the Tomoyo and Kyou OVAs for Clannad somehow detract from the core Clannad narrative? Do you consider them "crass"?
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Old 2013-03-12, 00:15   Link #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Question: Do you think that the Tomoyo and Kyou OVAs for Clannad somehow detract from the core Clannad narrative? Do you consider them "crass"?
Well, the placement of the Kyou one, after the series actually did seem like an odd way to send off the series. It just felt sorta odd and tacked on.

The Tomoyo OVA was perfect for what it did. But that's only because it's Tomoyo, who's way better than any of the girls we're talking about anyways. :3
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Old 2013-03-12, 06:19   Link #165
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I also don't think it's in any way comparable to analogize a VN which had multiple endings to begin with to an (effectively) original anime which told a story start to finish.
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Old 2013-03-12, 09:10   Link #166
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If there's something inherently wrong with a narrative having multiple endings, then just about the entire VN genre is inherently wrong. VNs aren't beyond criticism, but I think it's a bit much to think that their very format is inherently wrong.

I don't see why the VN concept of "True Ending" and "Alternate Ending(s)" can't work for other types of narratives (especially ones that are similarly romance-focused). I don't know any Nagisa/Tomoya fan who thinks that the Clannad: After Story ending is in any way tainted by the mere existence of alternate ending OVAs (but I'll grant that Archon is right about the timing of the Kyou one being a bit weird).
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Old 2013-03-12, 09:19   Link #167
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Every storytelling medium has to conform to the same structure as VAs, or else that makes all VAs invalid?
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Old 2013-03-12, 14:01   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, the thing is...

Spoiler for Major True Tears Spoilers:
In the end, I feel that the story boiled down to the concept of fairy tail romance and idealized progression and growth, in particular, the magical girlfriend that pops out of nowhere, vs the rather more practical and realistic world. In retrospect, this has a huge meta concept going.

Spoiler:


So on paper at least, this is a very powerful concept. To me though, it's watered down by some rather annoying melodrama, interspersed with Hiromi doing splits and Noe dragging Jibeta along. (Wut?) It may not be to Ano Hana's level, but I can't really say I'm too impressed either. Was the romantic development there too sudden? Nah, there were hints of it all along. But in the end, I see a lot of points being made, but the emotional impact is more like "really? Is that it?" and I just really didn't care who "won" by the end. The last few episodes have aged rather poorly for me.

This is coming from someone that has used Hiromi's "key" scene as an avatar before, so don't think I'm some angry Noe fanboy like some out there. :3
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Old 2013-03-12, 14:20   Link #169
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Well, honestly, what I remember most fondly about True Tears was how it was a very suspenseful and unpredictable (to me, at least) love triangle that kept me on the edge of my seat until the very end.

But I guess that the cost of that is that you don't necessarily get the sort of follow-up that you might like to see. And I'm talking about every character here, as even I felt that the final couple was robbed a bit of some nice romantic scenes to cap off their at last realized union.

Perhaps Guardian Enzo is right, and the best option would be an extension of the ending we saw. I could easily imagine a good 4-episode OVA coming out of that, at least.
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Old 2013-03-12, 14:22   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Spoiler for true tears:
Spoiler for True Tears:
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Old 2013-03-12, 14:28   Link #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, honestly, what I remember most fondly about True Tears was how it was a very suspenseful and unpredictable (to me, at least) love triangle that kept me on the edge of my seat until the very end.

But I guess that the cost of that is that you don't necessarily get the sort of follow-up that you might like to see. And I'm talking about every character here, as even I felt that the final couple was robbed a bit of some nice romantic scenes to cap off their at last realized union.
Well, that's just a general problem with romance anime. As many of us would note, it's not the end, it's just the beginning!

It's why I tend to get more mileage out of anime like Clannad, even though something like True Tears has significantly superior writing.
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Old 2013-03-12, 22:32   Link #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, that's just a general problem with romance anime. As many of us would note, it's not the end, it's just the beginning!

It's why I tend to get more mileage out of anime like Clannad, even though something like True Tears has significantly superior writing.
You're going to need to go the "good" shojo or josei for that. Its why I consider Kare Kano and Bokura ga Ita in high regard as they go beyond the formation.

Personally, I don't really feel anything for Key save for After Story and maybe a female character or two wlike Tomoyo. I am always turned off by their constant mood whiplash between extreme slapstick comedy one moment and mega melodrama the next. There's a reason why I consider Angel Beats the worst PA production, which is already on the weaker end when it comes to Key based works.

Series like ef tale of memories and True Tears which aired around the same time Clannad s1 really got the shaft despite having significantly better writing, artistic direction (particularly ef) and not so one dimensional merchandise focused characters.

Which is why I really like PA works slice of life/drama anime originals. To me they have this charm where they seem to be a hybrid of anime and live action tv. Yea I bitch about Iroha all the time, bit the highs of that show were some the best I've seen in the medium. Also I blame a certian writer .

PA themselves know that this is the strength. I'm watching Tamako Market atm and man the quality differential between that kyoani original and a pa original is gigantic. It's like comparing sword art online and shin sekai yori/psycho pass.
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Old 2013-03-12, 22:47   Link #173
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True Tears was 2008 (HALF A DECADE AGO). Get over it guys. No matter how bitter you can get, Noe did not win. AGAIN, NOE DID NOT WIN.

Anyway, is it just me or is PA Works starting to look the same. Well I guess it can't be help since RDG has Mel Kishida but from background art to characters, it's all starting to look the same. Then again at least it has more ambition that KyoAni.
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Old 2013-03-12, 22:57   Link #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
True Tears was 2008 (HALF A DECADE AGO). Get over it guys. No matter how bitter you can get, Noe did not win. AGAIN, NOE DID NOT WIN.

Anyway, is it just me or is PA Works starting to look the same. Well I guess it can't be help since RDG has Mel Kishida but from background art to characters, it's all starting to look the same. Then again at least it has more ambition that KyoAni.
I agree PA has regressed when it comes to visuals. Tari Tari looks like reject Hsi character designs and background art for example .

Maybe its the fact PA has upped their volume from doing 1 title a year or two, to 2 or 3 titles per year.
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Old 2013-03-12, 23:11   Link #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
True Tears was 2008 (HALF A DECADE AGO).
And how long has it been since Mai HiME ended? And many people still talk about how much they disliked its ending. Including me, I'll admit.

Anime fans can have very long memories sometimes. And when animation studios go out of their way to reference their older works, can you really blame us?

As memorable as I find True Tears to be, I doubt I'd still be talking about it now except that P.A. Works keeps pushing it. I assume that P.A. Works wants people to keep talking about True Tears or they wouldn't keep pushing it.

So Reckoner, Archon, and I are only giving them what they want.
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Old 2013-03-12, 23:23   Link #176
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Tari Tari looks like reject Hsi character designs and background art for example .
The mistake P.A made with Tari Tari's character designs was that they got the same person who did Hanasaku's anime designs and tried to keep a similar look while trying to fit with tanu's original designs which resulted in a half-assed mix of both, which is a shame because I like tanu's art. If they wanted to cash in on Hanasaku they may as well have just asked Kishida to design for them again.

Ironically this key visual is the closest they've ever gotten to capturing tanu's style but it never seemed to have made it into the anime...
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Old 2013-03-12, 23:28   Link #177
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Well, Clannad ended in 2009 and the novel was written in 2004, but we can still complain about how it ended. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
You're going to need to go the "good" shojo or josei for that. Its why I consider Kare Kano and Bokura ga Ita in high regard as they go beyond the formation.

Personally, I don't really feel anything for Key save for After Story and maybe a female character or two wlike Tomoyo. I am always turned off by their constant mood whiplash between extreme slapstick comedy one moment and mega melodrama the next. There's a reason why I consider Angel Beats the worst PA production, which is already on the weaker end when it comes to Key based works.
I think that generalization is a bit overstated.
Spoiler for Key:


I think the bigger problem is the predictable "omg cry now" cues that plague their stories. If anything, I would say that pacing is the problem that really prevents any of the Key anime from being truly masterwork productions because it becomes jarring. For this, I really would credit Kyoani for adapting it well as they could, and you know how much I hate doing that. On the other hand, Kanon's middle 8 episodes were concise and packed in a lot of drama and emotion perfectly. In fact, I'd say they pretty much kill almost everything that Clannad could offer.

And actually Angel Beats, to go back to PA Works, is probably one of their less bipolar works. In fact it uses its melodrama extremely sparingly, though I suppose it was used badly anyways. It actually works well as a comedy, of which I always felt Key has done better in.

Quote:
Which is why I really like PA works slice of life/drama anime originals. To me they have this charm where they seem to be a hybrid of anime and live action tv. Yea I bitch about Iroha all the time, bit the highs of that show were some the best I've seen in the medium. Also I blame a certian writer .

PA themselves know that this is the strength. I'm watching Tamako Market atm and man the quality differential between that kyoani original and a pa original is gigantic. It's like comparing sword art online and shin sekai yori/psycho pass.
Tari Tari had this certain charm to it, so I can agree on it. Hanairo umm, well, it had its charms on a good day.

And PA Works > Kyoani to me atm. Though both their character designs are declining! Nothing has really matched True Tears's amazing visual style.
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Old 2013-03-12, 23:41   Link #178
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Visually and character design-wise, I think that True Tears hit the sweet spot between "too detailed" and "too streamlined".

If True Tear's' character designs were any more detailed, it probably would have been much harder to animate well, and the characters might have felt less "moe" to some viewers.

But if those character designs were any more streamlined, they'd risk losing their visual distinctiveness.


The problem is that P.A. Works went from this sweet spot to increasingly streamlined. First, it became a bit more streamlined in Hanasaku Iroha. Then they went ever farther with Tari Tari. With Tari Tari, it really did take me a long time to tell Sawa and Wakana apart (well, unless Sawa was wearing that one particular outfit of her's that was just out of this world fantastic, lol).

It would be nice if P.A. Works tried to get back to the balance they achieved with True Tears. Not that I expect them to, mind you. HSI and Tari Tari both sold better than True Tears after all.
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Old 2013-03-13, 06:03   Link #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It would be nice if P.A. Works tried to get back to the balance they achieved with True Tears. Not that I expect them to, mind you. HSI and Tari Tari both sold better than True Tears after all.
I'm not sure I'd put HSI and Tari Tari in the same bag.
I honestly like HSI,Canaan (looking at the OP again makes me hope PA does another action anime someday) and True Tear's designs all equally.
I do preffer NagiAsu's designs over those of Tari Tari so to me that's a step in the right direction

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The fact we got an animated PV for it back in october when it'll air in the summer at the earliest is pretty reassuring as well.
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Old 2013-03-13, 06:39   Link #180
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I'm honestly worried about Nagi no Asu Kara. Cheesy music, sad crying loli, childhood friends, love triangle... it honestly seems as if Mari Okada is writing another Anohana but this time for PA Works. The background art is indeed gorgeous looking for sure, but I don't like the character designs at all. It reminds me of those mid-2000 VN artstyles (and by extension Key), which I can't say I'm a fan of. It also screams a "CRY CRY CRY" atmosphere and I have feeling it's going to be over-melodramatic with lots of forced drama and crying, just like Anohana/Key is. And I have a feeling that this "Menma" type girl is not gonna win me over whatsoever...
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