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Old 2013-03-13, 01:51   Link #4561
Anh_Minh
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No, it's intolerance of sociopathy. You're the only one who claims it's the essence of traditional martial arts.
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Old 2013-03-13, 01:52   Link #4562
Sumeragi
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Probably because I'm the only one that takes martial arts that seriously.
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Old 2013-03-13, 02:44   Link #4563
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Probably because I'm the only one that takes martial arts that seriously.
Then let's stop pussyfooting around and pretending people can necessarily get out of sinking tanks by themselves without help, or that this is not a life-threatening situation. Admit at least a few lives could probably have been saved with more contemporary values, and then declare righteously that for the sake of the values of these old martial arts those few lives can be sacrificed. Because that's what will happen if those old values hold sway.
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Old 2013-03-13, 03:17   Link #4564
Ithekro
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The basic thing seems to be most of us either do not comprehend martial arts, or are do not comprehend such a strict and seemingly brutal style.

Or at least not in that fashion.

The question though is, "how many of the teams involved with this activity with tanks comprehend it in that fashion?" Saunders clearly does not. St. Glorianna doesn't seem to as she seems to have considered fighting Black Forest Peak to not be very entertaining. I can't quite gauge Pravda on the matter. No clue on Anzio. Ooari certainly does not, but they are new to this.

Only Black Forest Peak seems to hold to such ridged doctrine. Doctrine that had given them success for sure, but it is unclear if it is popular to the point the training is upheld afterwards (Ooari's instructor was trained in that style, but does not seem to follow it ridgedly.) I believe the house servant for Shiho (seen only in the Little Army manga) mentioned that they style was to bring out what one was best at, rather than the strict coldness Shiho shows. Perhaps there is something wrong with Shiho?

We'll see in the coming two weeks.
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Old 2013-03-13, 03:51   Link #4565
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The basic thing seems to be most of us either do not comprehend martial arts, or are do not comprehend such a strict and seemingly brutal style.

Or at least not in that fashion.

The question though is, "how many of the teams involved with this activity with tanks comprehend it in that fashion?" Saunders clearly does not. St. Glorianna doesn't seem to as she seems to have considered fighting Black Forest Peak to not be very entertaining. I can't quite gauge Pravda on the matter. No clue on Anzio. Ooari certainly does not, but they are new to this.

Only Black Forest Peak seems to hold to such ridged doctrine. Doctrine that had given them success for sure, but it is unclear if it is popular to the point the training is upheld afterwards (Ooari's instructor was trained in that style, but does not seem to follow it ridgedly.) I believe the house servant for Shiho (seen only in the Little Army manga) mentioned that they style was to bring out what one was best at, rather than the strict coldness Shiho shows. Perhaps there is something wrong with Shiho?
Being cold is what Shiho's best at.
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Old 2013-03-13, 07:49   Link #4566
jmc247
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Japanese Army To Display a Real Tank at a Live Event of Girls und Panzer

According to the official Twitter account of Oarai Tourist Association, Japan Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF) will display a Type 74 main battle tank at Oarai Kairaku Festival to be held on March 24th.

Oarai City is the model town of Girls und Panzer and the festival features the tank anime. JGSDF Camp Tsuchiura said they could have brought their tank to Oarai Anglerfish Festival held last November if they had known the live event of Girls und Panzer a few months earlier. They tried to bring the newest Type 10 MBT but couldn't due to the concern about possible damages to the expensive tank.

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=570021
The Japanese Army gives Girls und Panzer their thumbs up.
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Old 2013-03-13, 08:03   Link #4567
00Coyote
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Being cold is what Shiho's best at.
Every time I see her name, I read it as Death-ho. Anyone else have this quasi-translation affliction?
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Old 2013-03-13, 08:53   Link #4568
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Probably because I'm the only one that takes martial arts that seriously.
Just to be clear - as I understand it, this means that according to your interpretation of taking martial arts seriously, you are okay with people dying in pursuit of said martial arts, when their deaths could have been prevented by a less strict and rigid interpretation?

I should also note that the US Army and US Air Force don't share your opinion: despite NTC and Red Flag training and treating each training sortie as though it were real combat, safety is still paramount, and had a situation such as what those girls went through happened, referees would have called an immediate halt.
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:04   Link #4569
Sumeragi
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When the incident itself would not have caused deaths unless the crew themselves did not know what to do despite all the training they had, I would say there was no reason for any stopping the match in the first thing. If this was something like the tank catching on fire or falling off a cliff and crashing hard on the bottom, there would have been a legitimate reason. However, the incidents in question all involved situations where the crew themselves would have, or should have, been able to get things done themselves.
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:29   Link #4570
tomexe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Would those driving tanks be that incompetent to not be able to get out of it?
You do realise that, first, tank hatches are armor steel and fairly heavy by themselves.
Second, to push tank hatch open when it is under water, you have to push against the weight of all the water that is on top of the hatch.
Third, when you get the hatch open, you then have to get out against the flow of the incoming water.

Even ones that have floor escape hatches. A lot of floor escape hatches are gravity operated, they fall out if you pull the latch. With water trapped under the tank, they wont allways fall out. Even if you do get it open, you still have to get out against the force of the water, then crawl the length of the tank to get clear and then swim to the surface on one breath of air.

It is nearly impossible for a tank crew to get out of a tank that is completely submerged. Always has been. Even if you are lucky to land right side up like the MMK tank that Miho rescued the crew from. The flashback in the manga seems to show that the tank Eri's sisters crew stopped to help was on its side.

We can skip discussion about injuries caused by the fall itself since in both the cases shown the tanks slid off cliffs when they got too close to the edge and soft ground gave way and never actually "fell" as if they fell off of a bridge or drove off of unsighted cliff.
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:34   Link #4571
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Coyote View Post
Every time I see her name, I read it as Death-ho. Anyone else have this quasi-translation affliction?
Shinigami-ho turns me on.
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:35   Link #4572
tomexe
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Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
The Japanese Army gives Girls und Panzer their thumbs up.
They could of at least send a Type 90.

Last edited by tomexe; 2013-03-13 at 09:35. Reason: delete accidental quote
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:36   Link #4573
tomexe
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Shinigami-ho turns me on.
I think for all of them the character read as ho is the one for cannon?
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:44   Link #4574
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomexe View Post
I think for all of them the character read as ho is the one for cannon?
s very very fast.
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Old 2013-03-13, 09:45   Link #4575
arkhangelsk
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Amusing but doesn't work.

All three names don't have designated kanji, though when Ho(ほ) in a girl's name is in kanji it is most likely 穂 = plant part.

砲 would be Hou(ほう), which is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
When the incident itself would not have caused deaths unless the crew themselves did not know what to do despite all the training they had, I would say there was no reason for any stopping the match in the first thing. If this was something like the tank catching on fire or falling off a cliff and crashing hard on the bottom, there would have been a legitimate reason. However, the incidents in question all involved situations where the crew themselves would have, or should have, been able to get things done themselves.
What tomexe said. Or do you propose to avoid problems fighting the water, they try to get out when the tank is still moving and sliding into the river (a mere 7-second sequence), or do you propose they try and get out as the tank rolls over into a half submerged state (it looks long but is only 5 seconds) that probably would block the hatches with water?

Further, did you take into account Nishizumi's apparent practice of welding shut every "un-necessary" hatch (ref P.24 of Ch1 of Little Army)? Not only does it make it harder to drive, obviously this will mean a lot fewer hatches for the crew to use when they need to escape. There may not even be under-the-tank hatches left!

Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2013-03-13 at 09:54. Reason: Add another reply to Sumeragi
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Old 2013-03-13, 11:38   Link #4576
willx
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Everyone keeps referencing "Little Army" -- is that actually canon?
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Old 2013-03-13, 12:21   Link #4577
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomexe View Post
You do realise that, first, tank hatches are armor steel and fairly heavy by themselves.
Second, to push tank hatch open when it is under water, you have to push against the weight of all the water that is on top of the hatch.
Third, when you get the hatch open, you then have to get out against the flow of the incoming water.

Even ones that have floor escape hatches. A lot of floor escape hatches are gravity operated, they fall out if you pull the latch. With water trapped under the tank, they wont allways fall out. Even if you do get it open, you still have to get out against the force of the water, then crawl the length of the tank to get clear and then swim to the surface on one breath of air.

It is nearly impossible for a tank crew to get out of a tank that is completely submerged. Always has been. Even if you are lucky to land right side up like the MMK tank that Miho rescued the crew from. The flashback in the manga seems to show that the tank Eri's sisters crew stopped to help was on its side.
Been there, done that, and if someone of my statute can do it by herself, I don't see how a crew of five cannot do it unless they were unfit for the job in the first place. Admittedly I am harsh, but I do put high standards on everything I do.
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Old 2013-03-13, 12:23   Link #4578
arkhangelsk
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Talking

Really, you are both a martial artist in a hardcore school AND a tanker AND your tank happened to go into a river by accident AND you managed to get out AND you thought it was easy enough to demand it as a standard for which failure deserves death?

Can you get a friend to record a video of you getting into a tank and doing it again?
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Old 2013-03-13, 12:29   Link #4579
Sumeragi
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Who said it was with a tank? Hatches which are underwater are relatively common you know.

For that matter, my taking martial arts seriously does not equal hardcore school. It's a standard I put myself up to whenever I do kendo and such.
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Old 2013-03-13, 12:39   Link #4580
RRW
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