AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-12, 08:22   Link #3101
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
OTOH, though not for work, Japanese (or perhaps Asian in general, as I live in SEA) students have an extraordinary burden and expectations in their studies. We often hear a Westerner being shocked at how packed the Asian curriculum is (if I remember right, Japan and India have very high rates of student suicides). Of course, I can't compare for sure since I don't live in western countries so what I went through here just felt normal to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I mean like we had regular school till 3~3:30PM. Then after going home, around 5~6PM we head to juku school (a school after school) and don't come home until 10PM.
Effectively going to school twice a day on the days we had Juku school.

I went to Juku school 3 times a week, I think that was pretty normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
It is still content. When I was in secondary I constantly had lessons until 3pm; half of the time after 1pm is struggling to stay awake because whatever they are teaching didn't make any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Hmmm..... Try classes until 4 pm, soccer until 6 pm, and all-night group study until 4 am. Sleep until 7 am, and go to school by 8 am.


My life as a middle schooler in Korea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Your secondary until 3...mine until 10...coz they deemed night classes necessary to make us ace O-Levels...

Not to mention all the tuition on other days until 10+
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Classes starts at 7 am, ends at 4 pm, go to internet shop 'til 5 pm, watch anime 'til at 8 pm, sleep at 9 pm, wake up at 6 pm, at school by 6:45 am then study for 15 mins!!!!

Meanwhile I only study 4-6 Hour in school at max yet still become a top student.

the difference between Asian and international school surely different.

thought i done lot of after school activity like robotic and student council/perfect
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 08:38   Link #3102
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
Meanwhile I only study 4-6 Hour in school at max yet still become a top student.

the difference between Asian and international school surely different.

thought i done lot of after school activity like robotic and student council/perfect
Not sure what you're implying, but in general, an "average" kid coming from one of these asian countries usually instantly ranks in the top highest of the schools in US if transferred.

I know because I was one. I was at best an average student in Japan. I came to US and enrolled in highschool here, and was instantly among the highest achieving student in math and science. I wasn't smart. The education level in the school was a complete joke.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 08:44   Link #3103
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
^ Et al

I think you guys are all misconstruing something. The educational training in elementary, (middle) and highschool are much harsher and stricter in Asian countries. There is also more of an emphasis on static learning and often times rote memorization. aohige even said himself, he wasn't "smart" (not saying I agree, I'm just saying he said it) but that he had already learned more advanced things than his contemporaries had learned.

That said, I agree that North American schools (I heard European is even easier) are easy as hell, but the focus is teaching everyone not weeding out the best and brightest necessarily.. The best and brightest tend to rise to the top themselves.. And those that simply perform academically well, most of them tend to live pretty mediocre lives (and my life isn't anything special either! And I still enjoy their company!). Also, don't forget, basically every school (even public school) has "gifted" streams for the super intelligent, and skipping grades is always an option. I had a 17 year old girl in my undergraduate business school classes.

Having traveled, worked, and met executives and the like, I'm generally disappointed at the level of intellect that I see among the elite.
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 08:49   Link #3104
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Not sure what you're implying, but in general, an "average" kid coming from one of these asian countries usually instantly ranks in the top highest of the schools in US if transferred.

I know because I was one. I was at best an average student in Japan. I came to US and enrolled in highschool here, and was instantly among the highest achieving student in math and science. I wasn't smart. The education level in the school was a complete joke.
OTOH...When it comes to their unis...

My friend, who was one of the better students here is now in a US uni.

He's suffering
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 08:52   Link #3105
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Not sure what you're implying, but in general, an "average" kid coming from one of these asian countries usually instantly ranks in the top highest of the schools in US if transferred.

I know because I was one. I was at best an average student in Japan. I came to US and enrolled in highschool here, and was instantly among the highest achieving student in math and science. I wasn't smart. The education level in the school was a complete joke.
I had similar situation with you. when I done a test in international school. my teacher surprised I get 100% and I quickly send to top class

thought I prefer western/international education. instead having "memorization" only lesson. We have variety of leaning style like making a poster, a production, and some group project.

The teacher also kinder and have more personality. I even had "Chuni" teacher here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
OTOH...When it comes to their unis...

My friend, who was one of the better students here is now in a US uni.

He's suffering
Not surprising. the difference of education level between Highschool and University is like night a day.

Also because of asian is used to "memorization" style leaning. they will struggle when doing their Uni coursework because they not used to it
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:06   Link #3106
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
OTOH...When it comes to their unis...

My friend, who was one of the better students here is now in a US uni.

He's suffering
Well, that's the strength of the American education system.
Instead of making its average citizens smarter, it focuses on the "good" seeds of the population and strengthen it more.
Naturally, this means the higher education systems are very advanced.

It's one of the reason the stereotype of "In America we have geniuses and dumbasses. Nothing in between." comes from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
That said, I agree that North American schools (I heard European is even easier) are easy as hell, but the focus is teaching everyone not weeding out the best and brightest necessarily.. The best and brightest tend to rise to the top themselves.. And those that simply perform academically well, most of them tend to live pretty mediocre lives (and my life isn't anything special either! And I still enjoy their company!). Also, don't forget, basically every school (even public school) has "gifted" streams for the super intelligent, and skipping grades is always an option. I had a 17 year old girl in my undergraduate business school classes.
I disagree with the bolded.
The American education system is "lower the bar to the lower end, so everyone can feel they accomplished school.. even if that means lowering the average. But focus on the brightest, and polish them to be the leaders."
In comparison, Japanese (and many other Asian nation) focus on bringing that "average" up, and uniforming the standard of knowledge of all students. To do this, they focus on raising the low achievers, instead of bring the bar down.

The advantage of the former method is higher number of extremely talented geniuses, while the advantage of latter is overall balance of educated citizens.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:22   Link #3107
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, that's the strength of the American education system.
Instead of making its average citizens smarter, it focuses on the "good" seeds of the population and strengthen it more.
Naturally, this means the higher education systems are very advanced.

It's one of the reason the stereotype of "In America we have geniuses and dumbasses. Nothing in between." comes from.
IMO Asian unis would do well to emulate this...

Not in ridiculously high entry bars since Asia excels in this anyway, but in the process of tertiary education.

Not sure how that applies to Japan's unis though since they are supposed to be the cream of this side of the globe
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:23   Link #3108
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
Luckily mine is UK based which pretty much in between
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:35   Link #3109
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I disagree with the bolded.
The American education system is "lower the bar to the lower end, so everyone can feel they accomplished school.. even if that means lowering the average. But focus on the brightest, and polish them to be the leaders."
In comparison, Japanese (and many other Asian nation) focus on bringing that "average" up, and uniforming the standard of knowledge of all students. To do this, they focus on raising the low achievers, instead of bring the bar down.

The advantage of the former method is higher number of extremely talented geniuses, while the advantage of latter is overall balance of educated citizens.
Well, I went to a public highschool here in Canada. The testing was incredibly easy. The coursework was also very light. That said, if you actually went to class and paid attention, you could learn a lot. The "content" was fine but there was no strict test to make sure you retained the content..

If I recall (aside from skipping 80% of my classes in most of my highschool "career") my favourite courses when I did go to school were Psychology, History, Comparative Civilizations, TPE (Transportation, Power & Engineering) and Physics. The reason I mention this is the average "Asian student" I've met perform better academically -- but only because they learn more advanced topics sooner (especially Math & Physics) -- most Asian highschool graduates I find are generally not anymore knowledgeable in general than their Canadian contemporaries. I don't live in the U.S. so I can't speak about that, albeit some of my good friends go to the U.S. Universities.

This reminds me of a debate I was having with my fiance: "Do you tell children at a young age that they can do anything? Or do you try to ground them and get them to be more realistic?" -- I believe a mix, primarily the latter, but with an emphasis that "most things" are much easier than they may appear.
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 10:09   Link #3110
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
The advantage of the former method is higher number of extremely talented geniuses, while the advantage of latter is overall balance of educated citizens.
Actually, I think it is because the American economic system attract high performers. My parents are excellent engineers that came to the U.S for a higher lifestyle, so are thousands/millions of other.

Think of this, how many American "Pioneers of Industry" are actually born and bred here?
ArchmageXin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 10:41   Link #3111
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Think of this, how many American "Pioneers of Industry" are actually born and bred here?
Quite a few including Larry Page, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
IMO Asian unis would do well to emulate this...
It's really hard to say. Both models have much pros and cons.
The asian method, IMO, produces a much more "solid" society of capable citizens, but the American university produce technology advancing elites. Both are necessary component of human advancement.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 10:45   Link #3112
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Actually, I think it is because the American economic system attract high performers. My parents are excellent engineers that came to the U.S for a higher lifestyle, so are thousands/millions of other.

Think of this, how many American "Pioneers of Industry" are actually born and bred here?
Aside from Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Elison .. The Koch Brothers .. Michael Bloomberg .. [flipping through Forbes list] *cough*
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 10:49   Link #3113
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
*insert billionaireisuniversitydropout joke here*
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 15:54   Link #3114
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Most of the scientists and engineers who powered the technological boom in America during the Fifties and Sixties were born in this country. There were some foreigners mixed in, but they often came from Europe, not Asia. Here's a good introduction to those nice young men in white shirts and narrow ties that transformed the world: http://video.pbs.org/video/2332168287.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 16:24   Link #3115
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, that's the strength of the American education system.
Instead of making its average citizens smarter, it focuses on the "good" seeds of the population and strengthen it more.
Naturally, this means the higher education systems are very advanced.

It's one of the reason the stereotype of "In America we have geniuses and dumbasses. Nothing in between." comes from.
I think there is truth in this. All that I've heard indicates that Old World schooling systems force you to do tons of work, i.e. mastery by sheer volume. In America it's more about encouraging the student's motivation, which is really awesome for some students in some subjects, but terrible for the majority. I think that the main area where this shows itself is in math. Math is one of those things that everyone can master, but in America they only really make you learn addition through division, then they let you use calculators. In my experience they did teach algebra and higher theories, but they simply remained that - theories. There was a token amount of homework, very little drilling, and a few tests. Those students who get it understand it and are happy. Those who don't are not really pushed to learn it.
Compared to descriptions I've heard about the Chinese system, for instance, we Americans barely scratch the surface. In China they never use calculators. Every theoretical concept they learn gets backed up by literally volumes of homework. All formulas get memorized and recited* You have to be able to fully support your answers on a test with work. If you don't understand the material, you will be made to understand it through various pressures. Sounds tough but it does ensure that most everyone will learn math.

*=one of the reasons why I think that "rote memorization", which is derided in the west, is in fact the most important learning method.
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 19:21   Link #3116
frivolity
My posts are frivolous
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 25
What I've heard from my friends though is that the grade inflation is starting to creep into the US Undergraduate programs as well, with too many people scoring A's, such that the GPA tends to be overly inflated. The situation changes at the postgraduate level, where US universities still remain the apex of innovation, with extremely high funding and more rigorous programs. In contrast, Australian postgraduate education is nothing more than a cashcow, with programs that simply rehash the undergraduate syllabi.
__________________
frivolity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-14, 08:48   Link #3117
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
I was just wondering how accurate this article was on the way history is taught in Japan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-14, 08:51   Link #3118
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Every theoretical concept they learn gets backed up by literally volumes of homework. All formulas get memorized and recited* You have to be able to fully support your answers on a test with work. If you don't understand the material, you will be made to understand it through various pressures. Sounds tough but it does ensure that most everyone will learn math.

*=one of the reasons why I think that "rote memorization", which is derided in the west, is in fact the most important learning method.
I hate "rote memorization" and think it's absolutely useless. I remember a story one of my old professors told me about a friend that they had that made it through medical school because they had a near flawless memory and could remember a ridiculous amount of medical jargon .. but lacked any sort of critical analysis ability. They basically couldn't do their job. I think people need to be taught how to think. Like Philo 100-level courses: Critical Thinking and Logic & Reasoning should be mandatory at the highschool level.
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-14, 09:40   Link #3119
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
I hate "rote memorization" and think it's absolutely useless. I remember a story one of my old professors told me about a friend that they had that made it through medical school because they had a near flawless memory and could remember a ridiculous amount of medical jargon .. but lacked any sort of critical analysis ability. They basically couldn't do their job.
Always bio-science eh?

The number of people in my bio-science course who are like this....Astounding
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-14, 11:35   Link #3120
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
I hate "rote memorization" and think it's absolutely useless. I remember a story one of my old professors told me about a friend that they had that made it through medical school because they had a near flawless memory and could remember a ridiculous amount of medical jargon .. but lacked any sort of critical analysis ability. They basically couldn't do their job. I think people need to be taught how to think. Like Philo 100-level courses: Critical Thinking and Logic & Reasoning should be mandatory at the highschool level.
The governments wouldn't allow it - how are you going to control a machine whose mode isn't set to read-only?

I don't hate rote memorisation because it has its uses and can be fun (I once challenged a friend to memorising pi - he hit 100 digits and I got stuck at 40), but I am quite disgusted that these people are those who often get scholarships or are the top of the class; yet they don't seem to care much about the beauty of the subjects they study and the utility of it. They are the ones destroying our world of science without the propensity to explore deeper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Always bio-science eh?

The number of people in my bio-science course who are like this....Astounding
Engineering courses are always filled with idiots like them; and they blame the inability to work together when projects fall through.

The base of a good project is always a good idea, without the guts and the creativity, what use is that knowledge? I would rather someone at our polytechnics create a new strain of Ebola virus that reanimates corpses than to hand up lazily recreated projects from the internet (though resource can be quite an issue - ever thought of stealing from the school labs?).
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.