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Old 2013-03-07, 19:15   Link #1
T-6000
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Anyone in favor of a new Unreal Tournament game?

With the Tech demo of Unreal Tech Engine 4 unveiled last year, fans of the Unreal Tournament series have speculated that Epic will be revealing a new Unreal Tournament game sometime in the near future. Some have speculated that Epic may announce a new Unreal Tournament game this year. Personally, I think it's a slim chance in hell that we'll be seeing another Unreal Tournament game at all. With the poor sales & lukewarm reception (mainly by fans, to be honest) of Unreal Tournament 3 in comparison to the Gears of War series, it's not hard to see why Epic would be put off of making another Unreal Tournament game in the future.

Even with a slim chance of an announcement, I'd have mixed feelings about another Unreal Tournament. On one hand, I have been a longtime fan of the UT series ever since back at the late 90s. Hell, I've bought and played not only the first one, but UT2003 and 2004, and I was one of the first that bought Unreal Tournament 3. And I am an old school fan, since the UT series still retains the old school arena style gameplay found in many multiplayer games back a decade or so age. However, on the other hand, when I played UT3 I saw a few problems with UT3. The biggest one was that when I sat down and played UT3 the first thought that came to my mind was "This feels like the same Unreal Tournament I have been playing for the past +8 years." IMHO the gameplay and weapons felt better, more polished, and tighter than in UT2004, but I couldn't help but feel that it was all the same. Even the weapons (well, most of them) were the same from the first Unreal Tournament! The gameplay modes were also mostly the same from past UT games (minus Assault, a fan favorite). Because of the "Same old" feel, after a couple of days of playing the hell out of UT3, I shelved it and found myself hard pressed to touch the game. So far, I've invested around 50 hours of gameplay time with UT3, but it's mostly experimenting with well done user made maps and mods from the community.

If another Unreal Tournament is in the works, I am hoping to see some new weapons and gameplay modes, basically some new and fresh ideas. If the next UT title still retains the same gameplay modes and weapons, I don't think I'll be picking it up. IMHO UT4 needs some new ideas.

What do you guys think? Does this old series deserve another sequel, or is it maybe time to lay the series to rest for good? And if you are in favor of a revival, would you favor some new ideas and new stuff, or keep it mostly unchanged?
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Old 2013-03-07, 19:53   Link #2
Newprimus
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Only, and only if it's as good as ut2004.
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:45   Link #3
Irenicus
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I don't really fit in with the FPS world, really couldn't, but I adored UT classic and UT2K4, though I sucked so horribly I usually just played with bots. The games just worked. Even with bots, they were fast-paced, vicious, adrenaline-pumping all-out firestorms of intense kill-or-be-killed gaming. I was a noob then, and couldn't care less to get into the UT classic vs 2K4 internecine flame wars. I just loved both, and that's that.

Some years ago I heard about the existence of UT3. I was like "oh, damn, DO WANT," and then I heard no Assault (gods I loved that mode) and no Onslaught (which can be super frustrating but totally epic). And I saw screenshots and I felt like the graphics style was somehow worse. Darker...or something.

And I was like, meh, lost interest. Never played it, so couldn't really comment if all the flak it received [lol, flak, another glorious UT memory] is justified.

I'm not sure if a UT4 will ever really come into existence, or what kinds of new ideas are needed to let it compete in the modern arena, but I know I will always love the franchise and especially the fond memories of Assault mode.

(Though another, more personal memory would be the UT submarine CTF map, a truly inspired piece of map design)

One thing I really regret though is that I never really got into the modding scenes [I wasn't much of the tinkerer/"mess-maker" I am now] which were apparently huge. Huge enough that Epic ended up making a business of selling the engine to other developers, at least. Don't know how large UT3's modding scene is by now, or how dead.
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Old 2013-03-07, 20:54   Link #4
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Doubt it. UT3 sold incredibly poorly.
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Old 2013-03-07, 22:05   Link #5
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FPS games have changed a lot since 2k4. I know there's a market for classic shooters, but I'm not sure it's big enough to draw people away from CoD and Halo, at least in the sense of making back money spent on development. Plus you have Planetside 2, and the upcoming Destiny. Plus whatever surprise comes in the near future.

I do miss bombing runs though. I wonder how busy those servers are all these years later.
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Old 2013-03-07, 22:48   Link #6
T-6000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
FPS games have changed a lot since 2k4. I know there's a market for classic shooters, but I'm not sure it's big enough to draw people away from CoD and Halo, at least in the sense of making back money spent on development. Plus you have Planetside 2, and the upcoming Destiny. Plus whatever surprise comes in the near future.

I do miss bombing runs though. I wonder how busy those servers are all these years later.
Some people have stated that the Call of Duty 4 & Halo multiplayer did steal much of UT3's thunder, and I think I'd have to agree with them. Even though there are a good number of fellow old school gamers (such as myself), many younger gamers of today seem to favor multiplayer games based off of modern day shooters.

At this point, at least if I was running the show at Epic, it'd be best to latch on UT4 to a full fledged commercial product as that game's Multiplayer Mode. And on the Multiplayer side of things, incorporate Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, Assault, and a new multiplayer mode or two in addition. It'd make the perfect Multiplayer mode of a future installment of the Unreal Franchise, but at this point I doubt Epic will want to continue the Unreal franchise in the future. I sort of wouldn't mind if they would port the rest of the Gears series onto the PC, but since they are console exclusives at the moment......
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Old 2013-03-12, 17:13   Link #7
creb
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As far as I'm concerned, UT2k4 is the best small-scale multi-player shooter ever, and if you ever go to a LAN party and it isn't there, you should immediately leave and never talk to the host ever again.

That said, LAN parties seem to be largely a thing of the past, as are rabid fanbases willing to shell out their own money to host their own servers, so perhaps it's best that UT remains in the past as a monument to the glory days of gaming, than to be re-invented for today's (or tomorrow's) gamers.

I could totally be wearing nostalgia goggles (ok, I almost assuredly am), but it's like multiplayer maps and game-modes have become worse and worse over the years, rather than better. Sometimes a thing is perfect. Sometimes it doesn't need changes. Sometimes, the best bet would be to just update graphics, and leave the gameplay itself alone.

There aren't any shooters today that really capture me. I tried PS 2, and honestly, I found PS 1 far more engaging, and would be surprised if there's much of anyone playing it by year's end. I just don't see these pseudo-mmo type of shooters really being successful, and a return to more tightly knit small scale-and personal-combat (and heck, there's no reason why it can't take place as part of a larger global affair I suppose), will hopefully happen with fun gametypes/maps before I lose my reflexes to old age completely. If I enjoyed drama, I'd probably already be making the popcorn for the impending Defiance release as well.

Anyways, I wouldn't want to see a new UT, because I suspect it would suck, and another sucky UT would do poor things to the shining image of UT2k4 I hold in memory.
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Old 2013-03-13, 02:35   Link #8
T-6000
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
That said, LAN parties seem to be largely a thing of the past, as are rabid fanbases willing to shell out their own money to host their own servers, so perhaps it's best that UT remains in the past as a monument to the glory days of gaming, than to be re-invented for today's (or tomorrow's) gamers.
You're definitely right in that aspect. Other than Torchlight 2, I can't remember the last game that supported LAN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
I could totally be wearing nostalgia goggles (ok, I almost assuredly am), but it's like multiplayer maps and game-modes have become worse and worse over the years, rather than better. Sometimes a thing is perfect. Sometimes it doesn't need changes. Sometimes, the best bet would be to just update graphics, and leave the gameplay itself alone.
I kinda feel that way sometimes, but with video games in general. Many don't feel as polished today as they use to. I get that feeling as I have played through some of my older games this past month (since I like to dedicate March as "old school" month), and even though they are pretty old they are still alot of fun. And in some ways, better than modern day games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
There aren't any shooters today that really capture me.
I'm hard pressed to find a good shooter today that isn't a modern day military shooter, as I am no fan of them. Weapons, vehicles, and gear are all generally the same in these types of shooters. And I am no fan of politics (and even some right wing idealism) getting snuck into my games. I much prefer Sci-Fi shooters or near future games (as long as it has little to no politics to it), and single player focused to boot. But I'm hard pressed to find them on the PC, especially with the rise of console exclusives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Anyways, I wouldn't want to see a new UT, because I suspect it would suck, and another sucky UT would do poor things to the shining image of UT2k4 I hold in memory.
The more I think about it, the more I think that the UT series should be put to rest for while in favor of a single player game or the next UT game be incorporated as a multiplayer mode of a full fledged game (such as the next Unreal game). The single player of UT3 was such a damn joke, there was literally no effort put into it. The next Unreal game from Epic should have a full fledged and proper Single Player campaign, with UT4 as the game's multiplayer. But I fear that, on the single player side of things, Epic is more interested in putting out more Gears of War games. As I said before, I normally wouldn't mind but the GOW series are, for the moment, console exclusives.
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Old 2013-03-13, 10:12   Link #9
Waven
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UT2k4 is my personal favorite shooter of all time as well. It's the only game that I actually played seriously competitive and even played (and won) some tournaments at big LANs back in the days when 300+ people LANs where still a thing .

Maybe after Tribes, another classic, has been revived now, it really could be time for another UT as well. However, there would be certain changes that I think are needed to modernize the franchise:

1. business model: a "comebacker" such as UT that doesn't have the mass kiddie fanbase of a CoD behind it would have to go F2P + microtransactions, which is not inherently bad if they are merely cosmetical or for certain comforts - any sensible f2p mp fps developer will avoid a pay-to-win model as hell.

2. Nowadays, and I'm not any different here, people expect some kind of progression system like levels/ranks with small benefits and/or unlocks. Personally, I'd love to see something similar to the LoL rune/masteries system that only give small bonuses.

3. Can they make a new UT based on the new U4 engine accessible to more people than just those with a high-end PC? Battlefield could get away with it because it still had a huge fanbase but for UT that has been presumed dead for some time now it would need every possible player it can attract.

What I obviously wouldn't change is the general gameplay. Have (mostly) the same weapons, base the movement on 2k4 and I'd be happy
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Old 2013-03-13, 20:42   Link #10
creb
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I still think progression unlocks in shooters would be better served if they concentrated more on looks, than power.

The seemingly eternal underestimation of the Barbie effect in online shooters is one of those business/design decisions that have baffled me for years (slightly related note-one reason I've largely lost interest in WvWvW in GW 2 is how impersonal it is), and I'm not sure how much I really believe the argument of the added strain to the game it would add as a reason shooters haven't gone that direction.

Sure, I loved the heck out of UT2k4, but even without real customization, it was still pretty personal as I always played on the same few servers, and largely recognized people by name.

I don't recall UT ever being a shooter franchise that required high-end hardware to play...in fact, I distinctly remember having to underclock my PC for 2003? because the game speed was far too fast otherwise.

I guess I'm not a big believer in the Cryisis philosophy, and don't think shooters are a genre that needs to be pushing the hardware envelope, especially with how graphics have largely plateaued recently.
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Old 2013-03-13, 21:59   Link #11
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UT 99 and 2004 were masterpieces, though quite different from each other in terms of how they play (mainly because of dodge jump) but I loved them both. UT3...I think this does a good job of explaining some of my thoughts:
Spoiler for size:

Well, I'm not quite as angry as him but points like the latency, bogged down color scheme, and essentially a step down in terms of movement scheme, I agree with. The movement was supposed to be similar to UT 99 but really it slowed the game down. You moved faster in 99'.

Well more the the topic, if they have a new UT, these are the things I'd want most:

1) Better netcode
2) Better movement scheme
3) More COLOR
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Old 2013-03-14, 01:02   Link #12
T-6000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
UT 99 and 2004 were masterpieces, though quite different from each other in terms of how they play (mainly because of dodge jump) but I loved them both. UT3...I think this does a good job of explaining some of my thoughts:
Spoiler for size:

Well, I'm not quite as angry as him but points like the latency, bogged down color scheme, and essentially a step down in terms of movement scheme, I agree with. The movement was supposed to be similar to UT 99 but really it slowed the game down. You moved faster in 99'.

Well more the the topic, if they have a new UT, these are the things I'd want most:

1) Better netcode
2) Better movement scheme
3) More COLOR
Other than feeling like the same 'ol Unreal Tournament, UT3 felt like it did suffer other problems and the reddit post does bring up some of those points. One of the first problems I noticed when i bought the full retail was that UT3 had alot less gameplay modes and maps than UT2K4. The "Titan Pack" Epic wasn't much of an improvement, if you could call it that. The A.I. also wasn't really improved much (if at all) from UT2K4. In fact, the A.I. felt like a step down from the A.I. in the first UT. Deathmatch and Team Deathmatch, the A.I. was solid but in every other gameplay mode I felt like I was doing much of the work. And my Teammates would constantly ignore my orders or 'forget' about them in a short while. This made Single Player all the more frustrating. And speaking of Single Player, the SP Campaign was so god awfully shallow I don't know why they bothered. In the +5 years I have own UT3, I only went through the campaign just once. The models, Art, and some of the levels felt a bit too much like Gears of War. In fact, some people did point out that Reaper is quite identical to Dom (Marcus's partner and friend in the Gears of War series) and could be the same model reused. Many of the Iconic characters were also missing from the UT series, such as the Skaarj, Malcom, and Xan himself! Fortunately the Mod community fixed this problem. Network features and the UI itself was also lackluster. The Titan Pack did fix some of this, but it may have been too little too late.

With these problems widely criticized by the UT community, I hope that Epic will take these criticisms to heart with the next UT game (and at this point, that's a big if). But Epic have been a bit....arrogant with the UT3 debacle. Not only did they ignore these criticisms on their own forums, but they actively tried to blame the game's poor sales on piracy alone! In fact it felt like UT3 was given the back seat treatment in favor of the GOW series, putting much more focus and attention on their GOW series over UT3. And I wasn't alone in thinking this, since some people did insist that maybe Epic should have given the development of UT3 to another developer. Mark Rein insisted that had they done that, UT3 would have lost the heart and soul of what made the UT series so great. But when I compare UT3 to the previous installments, I felt that it did lost some of it's heart and soul.
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Old 2013-03-14, 08:21   Link #13
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I'm still a fan of the first Unreal so... maybe it's time for an Unreal 3!

But if you say UT... I liked 2004 the most. So yeah, I'm in favour of a new UT, as long they don't try put some random story into it like they did with UT3.
And it needs Skaarj!
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Old 2013-03-14, 16:35   Link #14
Alchemist007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-6000 View Post
And speaking of Single Player, the SP Campaign was so god awfully shallow I don't know why they bothered. In the +5 years I have own UT3, I only went through the campaign just once. The models, Art, and some of the levels felt a bit too much like Gears of War. In fact, some people did point out that Reaper is quite identical to Dom (Marcus's partner and friend in the Gears of War series) and could be the same model reused. Many of the Iconic characters were also missing from the UT series, such as the Skaarj, Malcom, and Xan himself!
I laughed for quite a while when I heard someone refer to it as a "dudebro" story.
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Old 2013-03-14, 19:59   Link #15
T-6000
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I laughed for quite a while when I heard someone refer to it as a "dudebro" story.
Calling the Unreal Tournament 3 Single Player campaign a "Dudebro" story is an insult to "Dudebro" stories. Yeah, it's *THAT* bad IMHO. This is why I'm more in favor of a latching on Unreal Tournament 4 to an actual Single Player Unreal game. I don't think it'd stand as a solo product anymore.
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Old 2013-03-14, 20:58   Link #16
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Unreal 3 + a tournament MP? I'm down.
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Old 2013-03-22, 04:08   Link #17
T-6000
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Epic did state back at 2009 that they were shelving the Unreal series for awhile, but I wonder if that proposal still holds weight? There have been some considerably major changes in Epic since then, especially since last year. A few people of note have left Epic, a good portion of People Can Fly also left, Epic's longtime president Mike Capps has stepped down (He was to provide an 'advisory' role, but it had been revealed lately that he won't even be providing such role), and now I've read an article on a Chinese Internet company owning 40% of Epic.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/21/ch...of-epic-games/

Epic lost some key members and they are undergoing new management. Tencent now owns 40% of Epic. I guess whatever direction Epic goes will be under who calls the shots now. But I wonder if Tencent will be pressuring the company to go into a direction they want since they own a good portion of Epic? It's hard to know what will happen to this company or their IP. At this point, it's hard to know what will happen to the Unreal IP.
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