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Old 2013-03-14, 05:17   Link #321
Xacual
The color of a Hero
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Dark also has the Mire tome, which has high range 3-10 I think. Aversa's Night tome also heals like Nosferatu. There's Ruin too, that has a 50% crit rate.
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Old 2013-03-14, 16:57   Link #322
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
Ok, I'm going to try to have as many children as possible, but I'm not going to go about this as a pokemon breeder Following my shipping goggles, how bad or very bad would the following be?

Chrom x Sumia = Lucina, Cynthia (They would be sisters right?)
Henry x Lissa = Owain
Lon'qu x Olivia = Inigo
Gaius x Maribelle = Brady
Gregor x Cherche = Gerome
Fredricx x Panne = Yarne
Vaike x Miriel = Laurent
Libra x Tharja = Noire
Ricken x Nowi = Nah


(Haven't decided on what to do Cordelia... I could marry her myself but I'm considering one of the girls without a children like Anna, Tiki or Say'ri...)
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Old 2013-03-14, 17:17   Link #323
Shadow5YA
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Ok, I'm going to try to have as many children as possible, but I'm not going to go about this as a pokemon breeder Following my shipping goggles, how bad or very bad would the following be?

Chrom x Sumia = Lucina, Cynthia (They would be sisters right?)
Henry x Lissa = Owain
Lon'qu x Olivia = Inigo
Gaius x Maribelle = Brady
Gregor x Cherche = Gerome
Fredricx x Panne = Yarne
Vaike x Miriel = Laurent
Libra x Tharja = Noire
Ricken x Nowi = Nah


(Haven't decided on what to do Cordelia... I could marry her myself but I'm considering one of the girls without a children like Anna, Tiki or Say'ri...)
Good and bad in terms of interesting support conversations, or their synergy and stats?

For storyline purposes, Chrom and Sumia is pretty much canon. If you don't have an S ranked support for Chrom by the end of chapter 11, the game forces him to marry the girl he has the highest support with, with Sumia > Maribelle > Sully > Olivia > Avatar (female) in terms of priority when settling a tie. Sumia herself also has the most limited number of potential husbands out of all of Chrom's potential wives. They're meant to be together.

Every other relationship is ambiguous. Owain, Cynthia, Inigo, Gerome, Noire, Kjelle, Laurent, Severa, Nah, Brady, Yarne, and Morgan all have the exact same dialogue toward their optional parent, so there is really nothing hinting one guy over the other for any of the other mothers.
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Old 2013-03-14, 17:25   Link #324
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
(Haven't decided on what to do Cordelia... I could marry her myself but I'm considering one of the girls without a children like Anna, Tiki or Say'ri...)
FYI, if it isn't clear based on her dialogue, she's actually in love with Chrom ..
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Old 2013-03-14, 17:33   Link #325
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
FYI, if it isn't clear based on her dialogue, she's actually in love with Chrom ..
Too bad it's an unrequited love. Cordelia literally cannot form a support with Chrom.

It's supposed to reference Catria's unrequited for Marth in his games. Marth loved Caeda. Incidentally both girls were also Pegasus Knights, with Caeda having a low Str growth but absurdly high Skl and Spd growths like Sumia while Catria had more well rounded growths like Cordelia.
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Old 2013-03-14, 18:16   Link #326
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Good and bad in terms of interesting support conversations, or their synergy and stats?
Well my main priority is just how good their conversations are (synergy I suppose) but in this case I'm curious how the child's stats would turn out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
FYI, if it isn't clear based on her dialogue, she's actually in love with Chrom ..
OMG epic plot twist !
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Old 2013-03-14, 20:34   Link #327
Shadow5YA
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Chrom and Sumia are fine, though not necessarily the best choice. She offers the highest Spd boost to Lucina but slightly hurts her Str. She also has access to Pegasus Knight and therefore can promote to Dark Flier for the highly coveted skill Galeforce, which lets your unit act again if they kill an enemy unit. However... so does Olivia and Avatar (Female).

Henry and Lissa work out fine as long as you train and Second Seal him into the mage classes. If you want him to stay as a sword user however... not so much.

Lon'qu and Olivia are fine.

Gaius and Maribelle's boosts contradict each other. Maribelle gives penalties to Str and boosts to Mag for Brady, but Gaius gives boosts to Str with penalties in Mag.

Gregor and Cherche are fine.

Frederick gives boosts to Str and Def which is fine, but he also has penalties to Spd which may not go well with Panne's Spd boosts.

Vaike and Miriel do not go well together for the same reasons as Gaius and Mirabelle: one gives boosts to Str with penalties in Mag while the other gives Mag but has penalties in Str.

Libra and Tharja work fine, assuming you reclass Noire to a mage class like Dark Mage and don't bother with her starting Archer class.

Ricken is kind of pointless for Nowi since Manaketes and their Dragonstones are physical based, so you would want a husband that gives Def and/or Str to Nah. I would recommend Frederick or Kellam for Nowi.

After Cordelia and her daughter Severa, you also forgot Sully and her daughter Kjelle, by the way.


If you're wondering what I'm talking about:
http://serenesforest.net/fe13/char_max.html
http://serenesforest.net/fe13/children.html


2nd generation characters inherit the sum of their parents' stat cap modifiers, +1. The modifiers as the name implies increase or decrease the stat caps of the class they are in. So for example, Lon'qu has a +3 max Spd modifier. If he is an Assassin with naturally has a max Spd of 46, Lon'qu will cap Spd at 49. If he is a Wyvern Lord which has a Spd cap of 38, he will cap Spd while in the Wyvern Lord class at 41.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-03-14 at 20:51.
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Old 2013-03-14, 20:54   Link #328
Chaos2Frozen
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
^
So essentially it boils down to same class type with same class type?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
After Cordelia and her daughter Severa, you also forgot Sully and her daughter Kjelle, by the way.
That's because I still haven't decide what to do with Cordelia And I don't intend to use Sully.
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Old 2013-03-14, 21:02   Link #329
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
^
So essentially it boils down to same class type with same class type?
Well... yes and no. You want to give the children good modifiers, which naturally calls for a good two physical parents or two magic parents, but you don't want them to be so similar that they offer nothing new to their child. The children also inherit class options from their parents.

For example, Lon'qu and Panne wouldn't be a good pair because both of them give Thief (Assassin and Trickster) and Wyvern Rider (Wyvern Lord and Griffon Rider), so Yarne wouldn't have very many good skills to choose from since his class options are so limited despite getting good stat modifiers from his parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
^
So essentially it boils down to same class type with same class type?


That's because I still haven't decide what to do with Cordelia And I don't intend to use Sully.
You don't necessarily have to keep the parents to use the children. Just grind them enough to build their supports and skills to marry and pass down to their child, then bench them once you recruit the child.
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Old 2013-03-14, 23:12   Link #330
Xacual
The color of a Hero
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
The best person to marry for your MC would probably be Lucina for the Lord skill or one of the other children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Every other relationship is ambiguous. Owain, Cynthia, Inigo, Gerome, Noire, Kjelle, Laurent, Severa, Nah, Brady, Yarne, and Morgan all have the exact same dialogue toward their optional parent, so there is really nothing hinting one guy over the other for any of the other mothers.
Doesn't Morgan have different conversations based on who his sibling is? My Morgan had a scene with Lucina where they tried to see if he could wield Falchion. I doubt that happens with the other sibling options. Also I'm still disappointed that I was forced to have a son Morgan just because my Avatar was female.
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Old 2013-03-14, 23:36   Link #331
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
The best person to marry for your MC would probably be Lucina for the Lord skill or one of the other children.



Doesn't Morgan have different conversations based on who his sibling is? My Morgan had a scene with Lucina where they tried to see if he could wield Falchion. I doubt that happens with the other sibling options. Also I'm still disappointed that I was forced to have a son Morgan just because my Avatar was female.
Lucina's support conversations take priority. With any sibling, the dialogue is mostly the same.

Spoiler for Lucina x Sibling support conversation:
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Old 2013-03-15, 01:03   Link #332
serenade_beta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Doesn't Morgan have different conversations based on who his sibling is? My Morgan had a scene with Lucina where they tried to see if he could wield Falchion. I doubt that happens with the other sibling options. Also I'm still disappointed that I was forced to have a son Morgan just because my Avatar was female.
All children have the exact same templates for their conversations, regardless of the mom or dad. The only thing that really changes is their speech patterns.
Trust me, this template made collecting every support conversation boring as can be.
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Old 2013-03-15, 01:57   Link #333
DragoonKain3
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
No. If you're going to make a Rally user, it should be either the Avatar, their child, or a Spotpass/DLC character. Rally Spectrum is far too good to go without if you're going to devote a unit to the idea anyway.
The way I see it, now that I finally actually got to play with Bride...

CASE A
Nah as Rallyer: Avatar/Morgan gets to have 2 attacks that is powered by Luna/Ignis (chance of proccing either at 38 SKL: 62%), a 20 power Aversa's Night (which never degrades in durability due to me giving luck based class pair up bonuses), with at least 47 MAG and 44 SPD before pair up bonuses

Nah rallies for +6 for the relevant stats (STR/SPD/MAG), +2 to everything else. Still has one skill slot for other purposes


CASE B
Morgan F as Rallyer: +6 to every stat, +4 STR/SPD/MAG. Used up all skill slots

Nah essentially has a 14 power Dragonstone+, 43 STR but usually only one attack due to low SPD


So is the difference between +10 and +6 to the relevant offensive stats worth it to have an extra 2 attacks with a strong unit, potentially 4 with galeforce? I personally don't think so, especially since Manakete has higher defensive stats that tends for them to be ignored by the enemy even post Rally.

Also note that everyone around gets +6 DEF/RES with case B, which means the Morgan Rallyer is now gonna be the prime target for aggro due to everyone else having higher resists. And with no skill slots, plus Noseferatu/Aversa's Night only having 20/10 durability, I hope you have extra stock and lots of money. And if you're a physical based Avatar/Morgan, having no Sol means you are essentially dead meat by the hordes of enemies at lunatic. XD



Quote:
Vehemently disagree here. Vaike makes her the best Hero in the game, and Ragnell > Swordmaster weapons. Also gives her access to better defense, axes, and MUCH higher strength, which still being pretty damned fast. Plus, blonde.
Ragnell can go to someone else. I usually give it to Lucina being that Swords don't have a range 2 weapon apart from that and Amatsu, and Lucina tends to be Great Lord anyways.

Also note that 51 SPD is the maximum to double attack practically any unit in the game, and Lon'qu gives Swordsmaster Severa 52 SPD. This can be up to 60 SPD with pair up bonuses via Berserker (dodge everything via Lon'qu giving her access to all breaker skills), or preferably it allows her pair to be the vastly superior Warrior (which gives her comparable defenses at 40/36, compared to 41/34).

A Vaike fathered Severa would in turn need to have their paired up unit to be a Berserker (which IMO isn't a good class end game due to their crappy SKL cap AND Axes being the most inaccurate of the weapon types), or a Taguel/Dread Fighter (both being inferior to Warrior in offensive punch).

More importantly, Vaike doesn't offer Severa either Vantage (no Myrmidon) or even Counter (have to inherit Axefaire since no Swordfaire), which that alone IMO is worth being at 58 effective STR (40 max stat + 10 pair up + 5 Swordfaire + 3 Rank A) instead of 63 (47 max stat + 10 pair up + 5 axefair + 1 Rank A). When you're at less than half health in danger of being killed, having Vantage allows you to outright ignore low HP enemies, or it gives you the extra chance to proc Sol in order to live,. (and when you're at full, you want to attack later anyways jsut in case they hit you)

And nothing is stopping from Lon'qu fathered Severa from being a Hero (3 less STR and 1 less DEF for +2 SPD/SKL and Vantage), though I prefer not doing it this way because her partner doesn't get LCK bonus (which allows you to have 100% armsthrift to keep the durability on stuff like Hector's Axe/Hellswath) and now you have to give her Ragnell.


Why am I so bent on having a Warrior? Because being paired up with Inigo fathered by Stahl gives him access to bowfaire, allowing you to cherry pick problematic Counter based enemies with a 4-hit 15 power Brave Bow backed by 58 effective STR (51 max stat + 5 bowfaire + 2 Rank A), then after activating Galeforce, retreat or switch out weapon/active unit depending on the situation.


Quote:
Which A-rank weapons? Like Brave weapons? You can buy them.
Grandivus mainly (you know the 10000 renown weapon). I hate having to farm for Hammernes, as I tend to save them for Ragnell since Lucina can't be paired with someone that gives STR and LCK as a class bonus. Donnel fathered Kjelle means she would reach 49 LCK. At that point you can pair her up with anyone with at least 10 LCK and she can use that OP weapon with impunity.



Quote:
As far as first gen goes, I agree. However, you can make him/her the best in anything by pairing with a 2nd gen. So this one's just whatever.
It's not so much Morgan (who is great at everthing) I am worried about as it is Morgan's sibling, who can greatly benefit from access to all classes.

That is, my problem would be Lucina (if Avatar F - MAG Asset/LCK flaw), since Aether + Rightful King isnt consistent enough, or Noire (Avatar M - MAG asset/STR flaw), which I can't pass up on another Galeforce user since Avatar M don't have access to it.



Quote:
Sounds like you're almost making the same mistake I did initially. She makes a great healer, which I originally forgot to plan for.
Laurent is my standalone dedicated healer (you only really need one), since he naturally gets access to tomefaire/mag +2 for a long distance healer Sage, or dual support+/axefaire for a more close up War Monk (assuming you inherit Priest from father). In either case Laurent gets Kellam because of access to Dual Guard/Pavise/Healtouch.

And with Bride being released and I'm testing more characters now, I actually like Noire now as the pair to Morgan-M, with skills being Bowfaire/Anathema/Dual Guard/Hex. Then Virion as father to give access to Deliverer.
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Old 2013-03-15, 13:25   Link #334
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
The way I see it, now that I finally actually got to play with Bride...

CASE A
Nah as Rallyer: Avatar/Morgan gets to have 2 attacks that is powered by Luna/Ignis (chance of proccing either at 38 SKL: 62%), a 20 power Aversa's Night (which never degrades in durability due to me giving luck based class pair up bonuses), with at least 47 MAG and 44 SPD before pair up bonuses

Nah rallies for +6 for the relevant stats (STR/SPD/MAG), +2 to everything else. Still has one skill slot for other purposes


CASE B
Morgan F as Rallyer: +6 to every stat, +4 STR/SPD/MAG. Used up all skill slots

Nah essentially has a 14 power Dragonstone+, 43 STR but usually only one attack due to low SPD


So is the difference between +10 and +6 to the relevant offensive stats worth it to have an extra 2 attacks with a strong unit, potentially 4 with galeforce? I personally don't think so, especially since Manakete has higher defensive stats that tends for them to be ignored by the enemy even post Rally.

Also note that everyone around gets +6 DEF/RES with case B, which means the Morgan Rallyer is now gonna be the prime target for aggro due to everyone else having higher resists. And with no skill slots, plus Noseferatu/Aversa's Night only having 20/10 durability, I hope you have extra stock and lots of money. And if you're a physical based Avatar/Morgan, having no Sol means you are essentially dead meat by the hordes of enemies at lunatic. XD




Ragnell can go to someone else. I usually give it to Lucina being that Swords don't have a range 2 weapon apart from that and Amatsu, and Lucina tends to be Great Lord anyways.

Also note that 51 SPD is the maximum to double attack practically any unit in the game, and Lon'qu gives Swordsmaster Severa 52 SPD. This can be up to 60 SPD with pair up bonuses via Berserker (dodge everything via Lon'qu giving her access to all breaker skills), or preferably it allows her pair to be the vastly superior Warrior (which gives her comparable defenses at 40/36, compared to 41/34).

A Vaike fathered Severa would in turn need to have their paired up unit to be a Berserker (which IMO isn't a good class end game due to their crappy SKL cap AND Axes being the most inaccurate of the weapon types), or a Taguel/Dread Fighter (both being inferior to Warrior in offensive punch).

More importantly, Vaike doesn't offer Severa either Vantage (no Myrmidon) or even Counter (have to inherit Axefaire since no Swordfaire), which that alone IMO is worth being at 58 effective STR (40 max stat + 10 pair up + 5 Swordfaire + 3 Rank A) instead of 63 (47 max stat + 10 pair up + 5 axefair + 1 Rank A). When you're at less than half health in danger of being killed, having Vantage allows you to outright ignore low HP enemies, or it gives you the extra chance to proc Sol in order to live,. (and when you're at full, you want to attack later anyways jsut in case they hit you)

And nothing is stopping from Lon'qu fathered Severa from being a Hero (3 less STR and 1 less DEF for +2 SPD/SKL and Vantage), though I prefer not doing it this way because her partner doesn't get LCK bonus (which allows you to have 100% armsthrift to keep the durability on stuff like Hector's Axe/Hellswath) and now you have to give her Ragnell.


Why am I so bent on having a Warrior? Because being paired up with Inigo fathered by Stahl gives him access to bowfaire, allowing you to cherry pick problematic Counter based enemies with a 4-hit 15 power Brave Bow backed by 58 effective STR (51 max stat + 5 bowfaire + 2 Rank A), then after activating Galeforce, retreat or switch out weapon/active unit depending on the situation.



Grandivus mainly (you know the 10000 renown weapon). I hate having to farm for Hammernes, as I tend to save them for Ragnell since Lucina can't be paired with someone that gives STR and LCK as a class bonus. Donnel fathered Kjelle means she would reach 49 LCK. At that point you can pair her up with anyone with at least 10 LCK and she can use that OP weapon with impunity.




It's not so much Morgan (who is great at everthing) I am worried about as it is Morgan's sibling, who can greatly benefit from access to all classes.

That is, my problem would be Lucina (if Avatar F - MAG Asset/LCK flaw), since Aether + Rightful King isnt consistent enough, or Noire (Avatar M - MAG asset/STR flaw), which I can't pass up on another Galeforce user since Avatar M don't have access to it.




Laurent is my standalone dedicated healer (you only really need one), since he naturally gets access to tomefaire/mag +2 for a long distance healer Sage, or dual support+/axefaire for a more close up War Monk (assuming you inherit Priest from father). In either case Laurent gets Kellam because of access to Dual Guard/Pavise/Healtouch.

And with Bride being released and I'm testing more characters now, I actually like Noire now as the pair to Morgan-M, with skills being Bowfaire/Anathema/Dual Guard/Hex. Then Virion as father to give access to Deliverer.
The reason why GDB recommended Spotpass/DLC characters for Rally support is because they cannot form Supports and therefore make poor offensive units lategame compared to your actual characters. Letting your DLC/Spotpass do the Rallies allows your other characters to focus on attacking and frees up a skill slot.
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Old 2013-03-15, 13:26   Link #335
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
All children have the exact same templates for their conversations, regardless of the mom or dad. The only thing that really changes is their speech patterns.
Trust me, this template made collecting every support conversation boring as can be.
The ones that don't have to do with parents or siblings are unique.
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Old 2013-03-15, 13:28   Link #336
willx
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Age: 30
BTW, for anyone that knows, how are the Demon Fighter and Bride classes? From the descriptions on Serene Forest, they don't see like they're OP or otherwise so cool and desirable that I would want to spend money on them ..
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Old 2013-03-15, 15:59   Link #337
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
BTW, for anyone that knows, how are the Demon Fighter and Bride classes? From the descriptions on Serene Forest, they don't see like they're OP or otherwise so cool and desirable that I would want to spend money on them ..
Dread Fighter has Aggressor (formerly known as Quick Slash), which gives +10atk on player phase. If a unit doubles, that's +20 damage.

You want Dread Fighter.
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Old 2013-03-15, 19:41   Link #338
GDB
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
So is the difference between +10 and +6 to the relevant offensive stats worth it to have an extra 2 attacks with a strong unit, potentially 4 with galeforce? I personally don't think so, especially since Manakete has higher defensive stats that tends for them to be ignored by the enemy even post Rally.
I have no idea what crazy ass calculations you're using. You use Rally Spectrum, Rally Love (or whatever the Bride skill is called in the US), and you're done. Huge boost to everything, 2 skill slots. How is that everything?

Quote:
Ragnell can go to someone else.
You can get infinite Ragnell using the Infinite Regalia map.

Quote:
A Vaike fathered Severa would in turn need to have their paired up unit to be a Berserker (which IMO isn't a good class end game due to their crappy SKL cap AND Axes being the most inaccurate of the weapon types), or a Taguel/Dread Fighter (both being inferior to Warrior in offensive punch).
Not sure why you think she'd have to pair up with one of these classes, but okay...

Quote:
Donnel fathered Kjelle means she would reach 49 LCK. At that point you can pair her up with anyone with at least 10 LCK and she can use that OP weapon with impunity.
49 luck means she only needs +1 from a pair-up. Or just use the +2 all stats skill. Or just use the +10 to all stats skill and don't worry about luck as far as fathering goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
BTW, for anyone that knows, how are the Demon Fighter and Bride classes? From the descriptions on Serene Forest, they don't see like they're OP or otherwise so cool and desirable that I would want to spend money on them ..
If nothing else, Dread Fighter lets you give sad sacks like Chrom a good support class, and more skills. Also, if you buy that pack, you get the third map, which gives x2 exp skill.
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Old 2013-03-16, 06:26   Link #339
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drangelic, or by a different name...
Age: 25
Is it a viable method to train my weaker characters using reeking box?

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-03-16 at 06:36.
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Old 2013-03-16, 07:24   Link #340
GDB
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Depends on what level Risen you summon. Honestly, I'd say go DLC to train. Even if it's just the free Marth map (assuming you got it when it was free), that's good for leveling lowbies. If you didn't and just want the one map, get EXPonential Growth. It's good for leveling for a LONG time (basically until you hit the hard/lunatic internal level cap).
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