Accel World - Anime Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced novel readers only)

[Tusjecht]

This is how textual debates get sparked anyway, so its bound to happen and at least we clear up misinterpretations anyway by rephrasing the point.

[Tusjecht]

I was reviewing my failed and OP fanfic character yesterday, when it hit me: there has been no explanation of what makes a purplish avatar.

Any ideas? On my side, this is what I think:

Purple avatars are ranged attackers, as seen from the nickname Empress Voltage, the whip user Aster Vine, and the dual mace-wielder seen in the territorial battle in the anime. I am excluding Dusk Taker because he's too dark purple to use the normal attacks associated with Purple...whatever they may be.

To be able to strike at most ranges must mean that their traumas is different from Reddish avatars (keeping a distance from the world) and Bluish avatars (being strong personally). Putting the two together doesn't quite make sense until I reviewed my OC.

Thorn and Vine both would seem arrogant and having an attitude problem from the buts of translated dialogue so far...to the point, I felt, was exposing an insecurity behind them.

Is it feasible, thus, to conclude that purplish avatars in general have traumas that render them insecure, and as a result want to be good in everything? Is this one or two wishes?

[Sunder the Gold]

Wait, what sort of mentality leads to Blue avatars again?

[Tusjecht]

My gut feeling is «being personally strong». I translated Taku's chinese wiki earlier, apparently Taku's mismatched avatar and weapon is due to the contradiction between his fear (getting spiked) and desire (being the best kendo practitioner).

[Shiyumi]

Red is fear and get away to fight back, Blue is fear and head straight to fight back, Green is pain and withstand it, Yellow is 'It's mine to revenge', Purple is something have to do with pride. Black is isolate and reject all (Black Vise) or accept all ( Black Lotus, maybe). White is hollow or emptiness or brilliant vanity (which probably what White Cosmos is).

[Tusjecht]

Shiyumi, refer to page 6 of this thread for our discussion on Taker. We trashed it all out for you.

[Shiyumi]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

Shiyumi, refer to page 6 of this thread for our discussion on Taker. We trashed it all out for you.

It's too long so I will not read again. So here a few points:
-Dusk Taker had earned his Burst Point honestly (duel in some depopulation area) before he had DC. It was confirmed in novel "I would desperately «duel» by going to depopulated areas and supply the points I gathered honestly to my brother".
-About the skill, there are 3 type(not counting IS): normal, limit and special.
+Normal skill doesn't consume SP, can learn from level up or during battle(usually go with Enchant Armament): Pile's Perforation(stinging attack), Lotus's Terminate Sword.
+Limit skill consume SP, can learn from level up or during battle(usually go with Enchant Armament): Crow's Aviation-Punch-Kick, Raker's Boost Jump, Roller's Vertical Climb.
+Special skill consume SP, can only learn from level up(usually go with Enchant Armament): Taker's DC, Bell's Citrol Call, Crow's Headbutt, Pile's 3 move I can't remember their names, Lotus's Death by... sets.
-Taker said himself "I finally obtained my first special technique in this avatar that didn’t possess any significant power". Taker has an impress reaction speed and very touch defense. His overall status was higher than other at beginning, that probably how he got by.
-The reason Taker can't steal Pile Driver and Healing because they and Flight each take about 80% of his storage so he can only chose one(Lotus's Terminate Sword probably the same or he can only steal special skill and skill go with EA).
-About Vise and his IS, you guys have forget that IS kill come from desire and wish. So it not necessary that his IS connect to his trauma(like Lotus's Vorpal Strike and Strastream Burst).
-Avatar of the same level have about the same total potential. That is the golden rule. But we should take into account the ability to use and develop that potential as well as experience. Example: Current Lv1 and Leopard Lv6 or Rain Lv9.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

It's too long so I will not read again.

But you want us to read your points?

I can justifiably say that your points are too densely packed together, without any spaces, and therefore I shouldn't have to read it.

-About the skill, there are 3 type(not counting IS): normal, limit and special.

+Normal skill doesn't consume SP, can learn from level up or during battle(usually go with Enchant Armament): Pile's Perforation(stinging attack), Lotus's Terminate Sword.

+Limit skill consume SP, can learn from level up or during battle(usually go with Enchant Armament): Crow's Aviation-Punch-Kick, Raker's Boost Jump, Roller's Vertical Climb.

I'm pretty sure you're basing these examples on the same manga picture I saw, but that image flat-out contradicts information in both the light novels and the anime. Not regarding the types of abilities, but regarding which examples fall where.

Unless Boost Jump is different from the ability that Silver Crow used, it doesn't use SP. Both the light novels and the anime depict the Gale Thruster's battery as a seperate gauge independent of the Special Meter; a gauge which starts full and begins to recharge on its own; a gauge which does not refill based on damage inflicted or suffered.

Further, in the light novels, Haruyuki describes the Gale Thruster's independent battery as being the same in principle as the battery which allows Cyan Pile's Pile-Driver to perform its pile-bunker attack. Which means that the Pile Driver is also mislabeled in that image.

Those three kinds of moves definitely exist, but there's also a fourth: "Independent Battery/Gauge". This is the type for Gale-Thruster, Pile-Driver, and most long-range weapons. Beam-type weapons overheat, and ammo-fed weapons run out.

Taker has an impress reaction speed and very touch defense. His overall status was higher than other at beginning, that probably how he got by.

There's no evidence that Taker was especially tough. As for speed, Takumu calls him a speed-type, so Taker would be fast in general.

However, Takumu says that a speed-type like Taker was much physically weaker than Cyan Pile. Cyan Pile is heavily armored, and needs to be immensely strong to run about as fast as he does despite that weight. If Taker was weaker but faster, that means his armor can't have been as good. It would need to be lighter.

This is all consistent with Taker being Purple. Blues have to be the physically strongest and fastest of avatars to survive the range advantage that everyone else has, and to dominate in close-combat.

I can hunt down and point out to various passages in the light novels that back up this theory regarding Blues, but to take it for granted for a moment, it means that Purples (like Taker) and Greens are the second most physically-powerful avatars in the game, while Reds and Yellows are the weakest.

[Tusjecht]

And adding on to Gold's points:

We already know there's an inconsistency with Taker and the level potential rule. Avatars are designed around one and only one thing only, so Taker must have had some stealing skill already...or so we thought. To think you actually could pull a tl;dr on the very answer you need, I am...appalled.

A summary anyway, since I've not seen you appear till now to give you the benefit of doubt: the conclusion was that either Taker had a weak form of stealing or the author was breaking his rules (or creating a new one we haven't figured out yet). It wouldn't be the first time he has done that either, going by Blood Leopard which Gold figured out pretty thoroughly.

I'm not even going to discuss Starburst Stream and Vorpal Strike. I'm aware of IS skills coming from either traumas or wishes, but they must both stem from the «absolute lack of something». Until we get to learn more about Lotus' past I'm only accepting that author was saving his brain cells and ported over the sword skills from SAO.

Your final point on avatar potential isn't making sense without a point of contention to direct it at.

[Sunder the Gold]

In regards to the author breaking his own rules, there's the possibility (slim and ridiculous as it seems) that Demonic Commandeer was "locked" in the same way that Silver Crow's wings were.

But even assuming that leveling up didn't offer any bonuses for the "hidden" DC ability (just as, perhaps, upgrades for Silver Crow's flight might have been hidden as long as the wings remained unfound), there would have been OTHER potential bonuses to choose.

Silver Crow had the option of gaining a wrist-mounted crossbow type weapon; an ability completely unrelated to his wings. If Silver Crow could have gained powers unrelated to the one power his entire avatar was built around, Dusk Taker would have seen option besides DC upgrades.

Yet he apparently didn't invest upgrades into speed, or strength or armor, or any other basic parameter, because Silver Crow was winning a fist-fight against him on-foot, without using Aviation at all (until the end, for a finishing attack).

[Now, Noumi could have just been letting Haruyuki build up his SP gauge and waiting for Silver Crow to reveal the power that he wanted to steal... but Noumi himself admitted that Haruyuki was winning so easily that Noumi nearly had to resort to "a trick" (the Incarnate System) to win.]

And for Demonic Commandeer to be as game-breakingly powerful as it was, you would think Noumi sank every possible upgrade into it. Yet, he didn't get it until after leveling up a few times?

It just doesn't make sense. The only saving grace to how LITTLE sense it makes is that Noumi is now retired, and we can afford to ignore him.


Oh, and on the subject of game-breaking: It's canonical that Demonic Commandeer subverted the principle of "equal level, equal potential".

Using DC, Dusk Taker could take an enormously-potential power like Flight and still have room to contain other powers; his Avatar could store and use more potential abilities than any normal Duel Avatar. And this on TOP of the intrinsic ability of Demonic Commandeer.

[Shiyumi]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

But you want us to read your points?

I can justifiably say that your points are too densely packed together, without any spaces, and therefore I shouldn't have to read it.

I mean it as a joke. Also, the info about the skill types was taken from Ln. Regard Raker's Gale Thruster's Boost Jump, it probably a supplement skill to normal jump. Similar to how Roller's bike run normal on fuel(don't know what is it) and consume SP when use Vertical Climb(the same apply for Pile's Pile-Driver). As for Taker's potential, this what interested, same Lv have the same potential but what about different level, when he first appear he was Lv5 while Crow were Lv4 and he already at Lv6 when he try to steal Pile's Pile-Driver(Lv4). And we didn't know what level of the owners of the skills he steal. The reason he intent to take time before challenging Pile and Lotus was to level up and steal more(he probably invest all his potential to DC).

For Taker's color, when you look at the color chart from vol 10, his color far from purple and almost fall out the chart to back color. It's safe to say Purple is a supplement color to his black avatar. But different from pure black avatar whose seem stand in isolation, Taker obsessed about his pride and possession somewhat remind of Thorn.

It's fun to discuss with you guys but time different can be irritated.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

Also, the info about the skill types was taken from Ln.

Huh.

Regard Raker's Gale Thruster's Boost Jump, it probably a supplement skill to normal jump. Similar to how Roller's bike run normal on fuel(don't know what is it) and consume SP when use Vertical Climb

Makes sense.

(the same apply for Pile's Pile-Driver)

Well, it is called "stinging attack" rather than "extending attack". And the panel seems to indicate a spinning motion rather than a shooting motion.

Is this an upgrade he chooses at Level 5?

(Agggh, he needs to get rid of Spiral Gravity Driver!)

As for Taker's potential, this what interested, same Lv have the same potential but what about different level, when he first appear he was Lv5 while Crow were Lv4 and he already at Lv6 when he try to steal Pile's Pile-Driver(Lv4). And we didn't know what level of the owners of the skills he steal. The reason he intent to take time before challenging Pile and Lotus was to level up and steal more(he probably invest all his potential to DC).

Even at Level 6, do you think Silver Crow could have that tentacle-arm weapon, the bolt-cutter arm weapon, AND the Pyro Dealer weapon? Even using Level Up bonuses, he could only choose two, and the Pyro Dealer is so powerful that it probably amounts to two upgrade's worth.

And we don't even know if Noumi had other weapons in stock that he just didn't see a need to use.

For Taker's color, when you look at the color chart from vol 10, his color far from purple and almost fall out the chart to back color. It's safe to say Purple is a supplement color to his black avatar. But different from pure black avatar whose seem stand in isolation, Taker obsessed about his pride and possession somewhat remind of Thorn.

Unfortunately, we have little more than conjecture about what "Black / Colorless" avatars actually have in common, whether in terms of combat affinity or root cause. We know what Purple Avatars are good at, but not what gives rise to them.

[Tusjecht]

Shiyumi, above all your misconception that Taker is a «Black avatar supplemented by Purple» is the biggest one I have to address. Avatars are NOT "colour + colour = affinity", they first go like this:

Except for metal and greyscale colours, the first determinant of the affinity the avatar's attacks is the chromatic location it generally falls in. Eg. Cyan Pile is bluish, Lime Bell is greenish-yellow, and Taker is purplish. That's the first step.

The next step determines the nature of the attacks, the saturation of the colour. Cyan is very nearly pure blue, he (should be) a CQC type. Or Blue knight, who is the two-handed sword wielder and most definitely king of CQC. But the lowly-saturated Blood Leopard is also a CQC despite being reddish which predicted long-range.

In other words, the highly saturated colours have attacks closely describing the affinity they represent. Conversely, the lowly saturated colours: Ash, Blood, Rust, Graphite and Dusk predict special attack affinities.

So a challenger who has never faced Taker before would, assuming he has some sense, be extra careful when facing attacks that do not conform to the idea of ranged attacks.

[Shiyumi]

In regards to the author breaking his own rules, there's the possibility (slim and ridiculous as it seems) that Demonic Commandeer was "locked" in the same way that Silver Crow's wings were.

Demonic Commandeer was Special skill while Aviation was Limit skill. Special and limit were only differed by how they can be learn.

Huh.

It's from vol 11's illustrations.

Well, it is called "stinging attack" rather than "extending attack". And the panel seems to indicate a spinning motion rather than a shooting motion.

Is this an upgrade he chooses at Level 5?

No, it's how Pile-Driver was used normally. Its formal name is Perforation.

Also for Crow's skill correction:
+Normal skill: Punch, Kick
+Limit skill: Aviation, Aviation Punch, Aviation Kick
+Special skill: Headbutt, Aviation Headbutt(maybe)

Even at Level 6, do you think Silver Crow could have that tentacle-arm weapon, the bolt-cutter arm weapon, AND the Pyro Dealer weapon? Even using Level Up bonuses, he could only choose two, and the Pyro Dealer is so powerful that it probably amounts to two upgrade's worth.

And we don't even know if Noumi had other weapons in stock that he just didn't see a need to use.

We also don't about the three's Lv (tentacle-arm weapon, the bolt-cutter arm weapon, the Pyro Dealer weapon). What if they are all low Lv, since Pyro Dealer's owner may have powerful attract to cover for his others weakness.

To think you actually could pull a tl;dr on the very answer you need, I am...appalled.

It actually was "Too long, read it anyway, disagree, didn't read(tsundere)"

Shiyumi, above all your misconception that Taker is a «Black avatar supplemented by Purple» is the biggest one I have to address.

I not mean to say «Black avatar supplemented by Purple», but intend to emphasis that Taker's color about to turn black from purple. Also, can you comment on my other post:

Red is fear and get away to fight back, Blue is fear and head straight to fight back, Green is pain and withstand it, Yellow is 'It's mine to revenge', Purple is something have to do with pride. Black is isolate and reject all (Black Vise) or accept all ( Black Lotus, maybe). White is hollow or emptiness or brilliant vanity (which probably what White Cosmos is).

[Tusjecht]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

I not mean to say «Black avatar supplemented by Purple», but intend to emphasis that Taker's color about to turn black from purple. Also, can you comment on my other post:

Avatar colours are not "turning (sic) from purple to black", they just stay in whatever colour they are, as far as we know.

Spoiler for V13 implication of Black Vise:

Niko was rambling briefly on Black Vise being same colour as Black Lotus, she wonders it that was due to a change in colour so that he'd end up as black too, from whatever original colour he was.

(Gold, it's probably a good spoiler since it only says that [something] exists, not what this [something] can do.)

Taker is simply very dark purple, it's not going to change with a 99.9% probability.

As for your colour affinities, I disagree definitively on Yellow; Yellowish avatars specialise in attacks that do not harm directly. In other words, more sophisticated than sneaking up and killing the other guy, Yellowish avatars fight like they're playing chess, predicting their opponents a few steps in advance, unleashing their moves, and in the ensuing confusion beat the guy to death, or have a tag partner do it for them.

We see this from Radio's skill Silly-Go-Round; it doesn't do anything except a nice light show for everyone else but the victim, who is treated to a dizzying, revolving show that opens him up for a long-range attack. Or Sulphur Pot's Charcoal Smoke; nice to smell, painful when set on fire by Nidhogg. His reins too are indirect; they don't work on anything except Enemies, who then do the killing for them. Not so much revenge, really, if we're talking about nearly-yellow avatars.

Red is okay.

Blue is maybe okay. The large number of kendo practitioners being bluish avatar controllers suggests more of pride as a swordsman.

Gold said it already, we don't know what makes Purple.

Black and white are both my strongest contention and my weakest rebuttal. At this point we still have no idea what makes white nor black avatars. In other words, your hypothesis can be invalid but we cannot disprove it with the lack of evidence. V10 side story 'Versus' had a dialogue between Haruyuki and KYH discussing black avatars, but even that didn;t come to any definitive conclusion. So I say, leave it aside for the best, or you could interrogate the author for an explanation.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

Demonic Commandeer was Special skill while Aviation was Limit skill. Special and limit were only differed by how they can be learn.

Yes, I see. It couldn't have been locked.

Which means that Dusk Taker MUST have had potential passive or limit abilities that Noumi somehow, for some reason, never unlocked.

No, it's how Pile-Driver was used normally. Its formal name is Perforation.

Unless it's the extending attack, it's never come up. However, I suppose that doesn't mean Battery-power is excluded from Passive. That would also make overheating beam-type weapons, limited-ammo missile launchers, and the Gale Thruster's jets "Passive" abilities. They may have independent gauges, but they don't cost SP.

This "Boost Jump" might be, as you say, a supplemental ability that adds an SP cost for greater effect, similar to how Silver Crow can use Aviation to enhance his punches and kicks.

We also don't about the three's Lv (tentacle-arm weapon, the bolt-cutter arm weapon, the Pyro Dealer weapon). What if they are all low Lv, since Pyro Dealer's owner may have powerful attract to cover for his others weakness.

That doesn't change how powerful they would be for a flying Silver Crow. His flight plus those weapons is a greater potential than he would have at Level 6, especially if he had Demonic Commandeer. Besides, Takumu outright stated that Noumi was bypassing the limit on avatar potential.

[Shiyumi]

Thank tusjecht!

Using DC, Dusk Taker could take an enormously-potential power like Flight and still have room to contain other powers; his Avatar could store and use more potential abilities than any normal Duel Avatar

I think you make a mistake, Gold. After all said and done, to the system, Flight isn't a special skill. What make it special simply that Crow was only one who has it. His avatar was not that weak since it was metal(tough, poison-resistant, cold-resistant) and his speed was high so his Flight's potential was high but not that much different from others(probably equal with Pile-Driver and Choir Chime).

As for Taker, I think he got DC when he level up to Lv2. It's most reasonable, since while it's hard but not impossible for his avatar. He said he duel in depopulation areas, and probably with newbie too. That was a pain-taking possess bit can be done, and probably why "That guy, is unexpectedly familiar with fighting" said Crow. On Lv2, his DC's storage was large enough to steal all skill of others avatars of the same Lv and still have free space since all his potential pour into that( it probably>Flight at the same Lv since he only got it until Lv2. They said you have same potential but didn't say that you can always use it so Taker's potential probably got stuck until Lv2 when he can use it. It's trickery but not against the rule).

My other points, Taker can steal EA, but can he steal Special Skill go along with it. As far as we saw, the three weapon he has have nothing special aside their original function. It may be the proof that their owner were low Lv and Taker obvious can't use his Bonus Point for them or he can't take Special Skill along with the weapon. Pyro Dealer also consume SP when it's used, he's only lucky that there's happen someone who can fly. Even if he steal something on the same par with Flight it just cost a lot of SP(when Crow Lv up his Flight it reduce the SP was used so the flight time was prolong, but the other weapons were "more SP, more powerful attract"). Taker's strong point was his versatile and not that he was powerful. Now I think about it, he was a lot similar to Archer from F/SN.

[Sunder the Gold]

Didn't know you were up at this hour. Please look at my edit, and I'll reply in a bit.

[Tusjecht]

I'm not exactly sure where to answer anymore...

Shiyumi, Flight is still a special skill, in V2 and the anime he mentioned he had to build up his SP gauge before flying.

When we talk about potential, we're not referring to what "A and B can both do," it's what "A can do" versus "what B can do instead." In other words, at level 4, Crow's Flying Punch and Pile's Lightning Cyan Spike should do the same damage against the same enemy because they're at the same level. And both consume SP.

And therefore, it still is trickery for Dusk Taker, because if he has no stealing move for an entire level, then what? Even Crow had flight at level 1! You could say there was a time delay, but rather I'm concerned with what he potentially had to use, not what he is able to use at that point in time. Crow and Taker are different thus because Crow was still able to kick and punch pretty hard, but Taker - he more or less declared his avatar had nothing.

Why then, did Noumi never discover DC until he levelled up? With only Crow to show as an alternative example, I'm pretty hesistant to model on him avatar evolution, that potential can be unlocked later. Otherwise known as a late-bloomer.

When Taku says that Taker's capacity is limited, he means, rather, that there also lies a potential of Armaments, and which DC has a limit to. Just like a sports bag, that represents DC. I can fit in my swimming kit, a basketball, and a pair of shoes if I'm good at packing, but I will not be able to squeeze in a snowboard. Those items represent Armaments, parts, and the skills that came with those armaments/parts. Recall, his tentacles regenerated, but the regen move without tentacles is likely next to nothing.

"Taker's strong point is his versatility" THIS is exactly why he falls into Purple in the first place. But since DC is nothing like whips, maces on chains, or Empress Voltage (the only three purplish avatars seen), Taker better falls into the category of special attacks.

[Shiyumi]

So I say, leave it aside for the best, or you could interrogate the author for an explanation.

But that's no fun, so here I go 'again'
For black we have two sample avatars, their shapes are so peculiar like they want to reject the world at much as they can. For Vise, it was evident when Crow fought against his IS "It was «isolation». An absolute detachment that couldn’t consider the state of people’s hearts at all.". For Lotus, she clearly isolate type and have trouble to make friend or intimated interact with other people.
For white we have Ivory Tower. His his voice, his action is like a salary man that do his works like a robot and his skill is complete conceal his present. For White Cosmos, I call describe her as 'brilliant vanity' because from what we know about her, she seem resemble the characters from other stories I read.

tusjecht, Flight is a Limit not Special Skill. The differences between them were Limit can be learn through battle and have no need for voice command(the same for Normal Skill). Crow learn Flight in battle and the condition probably was 'a powerful desire for the sky'. But that was a very special situation that push him over his limit. If he just dueled normally, he will only learn it when he level up. Also, regardless type, a skill learn from level up will cost Bonus Point. And here was the answer for Taker, he probably had Normal or Limit skill but unable to learn it. When it unlock from level up he already got his DC so he can't spare Bonus Point to learn them.

Also can we agree on the part that Taker's DC wasn't a overpower move that break the game rule. As I point out earlier he just got really lucky' like someone got a rare drop. Even then, he's not unbeatable when face against Red, Yellow and Purple avatar(remember the guy with ability that lock on the person focus on his gun, even Lv4 Roller can equip homing missile on his bike). For Taker's DC's storage, when he first team up with Bell(Lv1), he probably tried to steal her skill but fail since the storage nearly full. Later he level up and upgrade the storage so he tried to steal Pile-Driver but fail again because he underestimated its potential. He's Lv6 and a Lv4 Skill/Armament still take more than half of his storage. Surely there are many Skill/Armament of the same level with the same potential. That said, the other three weapon are low level since they unable to fill the remain space even when Taker still Lv5. He probably able to steal a Skill/Armament with the same potential with Flight when he Lv8 while delete all other weapons. So a Lv8 avatar with Flight Skill and a Lv4 long range attack. Well may be he will get a new skill when he on Lv8, we will never know.

Finally tusjecht, this the last time I bother you about Taker so let resume translate the novel.