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Old 2013-03-16, 21:18   Link #3801
Mars Mode
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I was going to say youre right, but I dont know if that illustration is something to go by. Specially the angle leaves a lot to desire. Besides I doubt he left any scar after the incident when he and Miyuki got close to each other, after all the scars cause Miyuki a cause of concern.

Yet again training that is like torture is not inhuman,

I will concede in that last statement because the part where they show a kill during their training is when they show a glimpse of the training of Sakurai. And for that there is still a lot of time. And there may be a misinterpretation from my part.
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Old 2013-03-16, 21:51   Link #3802
babbo3d
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Yes the update on chapter 14 is awesome. Loli Miyuki there are no words for her she is so cute, and this means we are really close to the part i have been waiting for the talk with mom about what she did to tatsuya.
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Old 2013-03-16, 22:15   Link #3803
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
I was going to say youre right, but I dont know if that illustration is something to go by. Specially the angle leaves a lot to desire. Besides I doubt he left any scar after the incident when he and Miyuki got close to each other, after all the scars cause Miyuki a cause of concern.

Yet again training that is like torture is not inhuman,
With it being caused by training it becomes more difficult to say if it is truely inhuman or not or who the cause is. look at his current training with Yakumo( see volume 3 for example) one slight mistep could end up giveing him one of those scars and everything points to that being his choice. Even volume 8 seems to show he has an intrest in a level of training that would count as extreme for his age.

Also Miyuki seems oddly calm about the scars given her reaction to people that she sees as causeing her brother pain. She talks about them almost like badges of honor. It might sugest that he is responcable for them rather then they were something forced on him.

Until we have proof that it was solely someone other then Tatsuya that forced this training on him. It's a bit premature to say they tortured him.
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Old 2013-03-16, 22:20   Link #3804
willx
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Until we have proof that it was solely someone other then Tatsuya that forced this training on him. It's a bit premature to say they tortured him.
Considering that "some of the scars looked like torture, or the training itself was torture" and based on the revelations in Volume 8, actually it's more rational to presume that it was done to him vs. the other way around.

Remember, Kazama says: "Even the children are formidable, they are raised hand-in-hand with death."

So this was done to him when he was young enough to develop his regrowth power (otherwise he could've healed the scars) so he was far too young to be able to decide to undergo the training.
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Old 2013-03-16, 22:44   Link #3805
kagato3
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Considering that "some of the scars looked like torture, or the training itself was torture" and based on the revelations in Volume 8, actually it's more rational to presume that it was done to him vs. the other way around.

Remember, Kazama says: "Even the children are formidable, they are raised hand-in-hand with death."

So this was done to him when he was young enough to develop his regrowth power (otherwise he could've healed the scars) so he was far too young to be able to decide to undergo the training.
volume 8 also shows him more or less jumping at a chance to go all out in a fight with the a fully trained member of the milatary and the fact he doesn't seem to heal any wounds below a broken bone no matter how much Sakurai has complained to him about it. So we have precedent for him willingly training far outside what is normal for his age and not useing his regrowth.
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Old 2013-03-16, 22:51   Link #3806
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Regrowth was mastered at the age of 14, heck much of his abilitys really awakened when he fought on this battle, I believe he thought maybe I can do this, but never really tried, the fact he didnt have a seal over his abilitys at that age shows us, he didnt really want to show them, or he didnt have the chance.

One of the reasons magic is powerful is emotions, showing us that if he puts emotion in his magic even the seals they put on him are meaningless. I think he decided to truly go all out on this battle and learned what he can truly do.
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:04   Link #3807
Rava
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
volume 8 also shows him more or less jumping at a chance to go all out in a fight with the a fully trained member of the milatary and the fact he doesn't seem to heal any wounds below a broken bone no matter how much Sakurai has complained to him about it. So we have precedent for him willingly training far outside what is normal for his age and not useing his regrowth.
In other words, he's an M.
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:15   Link #3808
babbo3d
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
In other words, he's an M.
not possible for him to have those emotions.
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:22   Link #3809
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
volume 8 also shows him more or less jumping at a chance to go all out in a fight with the a fully trained member of the milatary and the fact he doesn't seem to heal any wounds below a broken bone no matter how much Sakurai has complained to him about it. So we have precedent for him willingly training far outside what is normal for his age and not useing his regrowth.
Yeah, but you're saying "which is more normal to presume" so the reverse onus of proof or the balance of probabilities still weighs towards the fact that it was forced on him rather than him picking it. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm simply addressing your "which should we presume" statement.

If you're saying "he did it so that he could become strong to protect Miyuki" sure, okay, no problem -- but it still doesn't explain puncture and burn marks which are associated (in real life) with training to resist torture if captured. That's not "get stronger to protect Miyuki" training, it's "training you to prevent you from giving information to our enemies" training -- ie. Training to make him a better servant of the Yotsuba!
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:27   Link #3810
Rava
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Originally Posted by babbo3d View Post
not possible for him to have those emotions.
Pleasure and pain are not emotions.

Emotions are lust, love, anger, happiness, sadness, and so on.

Edit: Since that's probably not clear...

Your arm can literally feel pleasure, pain, hot, cold, numb, sore, and so on. Those are your nerves sending signals to your brain telling it the state of your body.

Your arm cannot literally feel angry, sad, happy, lustful, loving, mischievous, and so on. Those are emotions.

Last edited by Rava; 2013-03-17 at 00:45. Reason: Clarification...
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:33   Link #3811
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babbo3d View Post
Yes the update on chapter 14 is awesome. Loli Miyuki there are no words for her she is so cute, and this means we are really close to the part i have been waiting for the talk with mom about what she did to tatsuya.
I was thinking something like that as well.... Let's see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyuki
I suddenly realised that I must not, under any circumstance, begin saying 'please don't go' over and over.

That's far too much like the kind of thing a heroine would say to stop her lover in some romance movie (or novel or manga or whatever) or something.

Not to mention bringing in the whole 'forbidden love between brother and sister' mess.

----

There was no force in them, yet I could never resist. Rather, faster than my head could resist, my body complied with Onii-sama's will.
Yes, my mind is evil
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Old 2013-03-17, 01:58   Link #3812
Seitsuki
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If you look at the p175 illustration, he's clearly feeling her up. She's also clearly enjoying i--
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Old 2013-03-17, 03:20   Link #3813
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Well, I guess making children undergoing harsh training and torture to be soldiers to kill others are relatively normal in that setting. It's supposed to be Japan, not Middle East or Latin America though.

I guess our normal point of view for childhood doesn't really apply there. Although I think most children at Tatsuya's age don't have to do the same thing. I don't think even Juumonji and Masaki have to go to the same length.

Seriously, if your family will disown you if you can't become an elite commando, will you truly say that your action to fulfill their quota isn't forced?

I found that most of our discussion about Yotsuba will never go anywhere. One side supports them saying they might not be that bad and there are others worse than them, the other side think they simply suck. And the discussion just keep going on like this when the supporters side ask for concrete evidence of Yotsuba's misbehavior. It's an intelligent discussion, but truly a real waste of time!

^^ The same apply for pairing...
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Old 2013-03-17, 03:22   Link #3814
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Dreyakis, will you be taking on Volume 9?

Just wondering
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Old 2013-03-17, 04:19   Link #3815
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I was wondering if Vol 9 had an additional chapter like how Vol8 had one about when Maya got kidnapped.
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Old 2013-03-17, 06:53   Link #3816
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No information has yet to be given about anything about that.
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Old 2013-03-17, 06:59   Link #3817
kagato3
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Yeah, but you're saying "which is more normal to presume" so the reverse onus of proof or the balance of probabilities still weighs towards the fact that it was forced on him rather than him picking it. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm simply addressing your "which should we presume" statement.

If you're saying "he did it so that he could become strong to protect Miyuki" sure, okay, no problem -- but it still doesn't explain puncture and burn marks which are associated (in real life) with training to resist torture if captured. That's not "get stronger to protect Miyuki" training, it's "training you to prevent you from giving information to our enemies" training -- ie. Training to make him a better servant of the Yotsuba!
I don't see why you are jumping to the conclusion that just because there are puncture and burn marks it must be to resist torture. puncture wounds can include perjectils and stab wounds. Burns are also more likely to have been caused durring training by explosives, eviermental hazards, or even combat magic.

Also it is highly unlikely he started at that level of training because unless you're wasteful the goal is not to kill the person you're training. The diffrence is that his training didn't stop at the normal level and from the impression I got durring volume 8 it would not be out of character for him to seek out extreme levels of training.
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Old 2013-03-17, 12:32   Link #3818
Chimurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
Well, I guess making children undergoing harsh training and torture to be soldiers to kill others are relatively normal in that setting. It's supposed to be Japan, not Middle East or Latin America though.

I guess our normal point of view for childhood doesn't really apply there. Although I think most children at Tatsuya's age don't have to do the same thing. I don't think even Juumonji and Masaki have to go to the same length.

Seriously, if your family will disown you if you can't become an elite commando, will you truly say that your action to fulfill their quota isn't forced?

I found that most of our discussion about Yotsuba will never go anywhere. One side supports them saying they might not be that bad and there are others worse than them, the other side think they simply suck. And the discussion just keep going on like this when the supporters side ask for concrete evidence of Yotsuba's misbehavior. It's an intelligent discussion, but truly a real waste of time!

^^ The same apply for pairing...
Training Child's for physical disciplines is quite common and even in manga, LNs, Anime or Comic world, take as example Naruto, in RL the most develop Countries is the ones whom invest more money training child's, not all are for "Military" purposes, I can say Sports is the area whom probably we known and is public notice, since 3 or 4 years old, child s comes to a selection discipline based in the most close abilities or simple whim from their parents: swim, sport shooting, Baseball, Football, Soccer, Martial Arts like Judo among others, this area in special have long and well develop system based in Family or Clan Dojos and championship tournaments, I could keep going; About Military applications don't forget Military Academy in replace of normal High School, adding the fact is not rare seem some sport discipline give "final and trained product" to the armed forces.
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Old 2013-03-17, 16:25   Link #3819
Windknight111
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That kiss! And Miyuki's reaction is lovely!
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Old 2013-03-17, 17:20   Link #3820
babbo3d
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That kiss! And Miyuki's reaction is lovely!
What kiss am i missing something awesome, if their is a kiss please tell me is with loli Miyuki.
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