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Old 2013-03-16, 11:19   Link #1221
Masquerading Lunatic
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I'm a little confused. It looks like Mio and Haruka are back from Ep.23's screencaps, but shouldn't they still be missing like how Mio was last arc? Mio looks so cute smiling, though, but still. I highly doubt they'd explain it in the actual episode, too, so it's definitely strange. I thought I knew what JC Staff was doing, but now I'm not too sure.

I also just finished Refrain yesterday at last! Now I'm just wondering what happened to Rin when she was young to traumatize her so. Clearly, the whole Rin 2 ending is similar to what originally happened, but I can't really imagine what she had to go through as a kid that ruined her social life, effectively.
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Old 2013-03-17, 13:14   Link #1222
Dr. Casey
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Refrain is the final story arc, right? So does that mean it's never explained why Rin became so shy and avoidant? Well, that's disappointing.
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Old 2013-03-17, 13:16   Link #1223
Mazyrian
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My take is that she was always shy, and that the traumatic event that was triggered at then end of Rin2 was actually when Masato/Kengo covered her saving her from the accident.
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Old 2013-03-17, 13:18   Link #1224
Randrak42
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My take is that she was always shy, and that the traumatic event that was triggered at then end of Rin2 was actually when Masato/Kengo covered her saving her from the accident.
That...doesn't really make sense.
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Old 2013-03-17, 14:16   Link #1225
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I always thought Rin was just shy and was never good at socializing or making friends. I don't know if it was an event or if it was just her personality in her upbringing. If it was from a previous event I too wish they expanded on it.
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Old 2013-03-17, 16:30   Link #1226
Randrak42
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There was never a traumatizing event in Rin past, it was a lie from Kengo, Masato and Kyousuke during Refrain to explain to Riki why Rin was in such a state to begin with.
In refrain Rin still remembered the events at the ending of Rin2 but not clearly, the loop should have wiped her memories but the event traumatized her so much that the loop didn't manage to erase it completely for her, but it did erase Riki's memories of it. So to explain to him why she was in that state they simply told him the traumatizing event she remembered happened when she was a kid.
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Old 2013-03-17, 17:03   Link #1227
Masquerading Lunatic
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Hmm, alright. I just thought it was mentioned a few times in Refrain later on, vaguely, but I've only read it once (and quickly at that). Time to reread it! Speaking of which, was it ever outwardly stated that Koshiki's dead in the real world, because if it did, I missed it. I wish she had a little more involvement when it came to Kengo's episode asides from the "don't invade my privacy" bit with Kyousuke.
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Old 2013-03-17, 18:49   Link #1228
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Masquerading Lunatic View Post
Hmm, alright. I just thought it was mentioned a few times in Refrain later on, vaguely, but I've only read it once (and quickly at that). Time to reread it! Speaking of which, was it ever outwardly stated that Koshiki's dead in the real world, because if it did, I missed it. I wish she had a little more involvement when it came to Kengo's episode asides from the "don't invade my privacy" bit with Kyousuke.
It was never outright said "She's dead for realz" but there are many things implying to such...specially the fact that her suicide happened before the buss crash (meaning it can't be changed) and the effect her sudden appearance had on Kengo during Rin2.

It's one of those things where it's only assumed...but everyone pretty much knows it to be true.
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Old 2013-03-17, 21:17   Link #1229
novalysis
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It just occurred to me that Clannad might have inspired Little Busters, which in turn inspired Angel Beats.

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Old 2013-03-17, 23:31   Link #1230
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Originally Posted by Masquerading Lunatic View Post
Hmm, alright. I just thought it was mentioned a few times in Refrain later on, vaguely, but I've only read it once (and quickly at that). Time to reread it! Speaking of which, was it ever outwardly stated that Koshiki's dead in the real world, because if it did, I missed it. I wish she had a little more involvement when it came to Kengo's episode asides from the "don't invade my privacy" bit with Kyousuke.
On this page here http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=48522&page=60 Kudryavka and I talked a bit about Koishiki Miyuki. God I wish she got a bigger part. I really really liked her character and was interested in her and her back story a bit more.

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It just occurred to me that Clannad might have inspired Little Busters, which in turn inspired Angel Beats.

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Great comparissons. I too have noticed that almost all KEY works have some kind of other world and/or ties in with dreams. This even is like ONE from pre-KEY as well. I believe this stems from the influence of Maeda reading "Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World". Which is a good read btw.

Last edited by Leo_Otaku; 2013-03-17 at 23:42.
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Old 2013-03-18, 04:09   Link #1231
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ONE is like the mother of all Key works with dream,other world,sad snow,lack of parent,childhood,forgotten memories etc...It's thanks to ONE success that Key came to existence so this is quiet literally as well.

It's also interesting each Key game so far represent a season but LB! isn't one of them.
Clannad: Spring
Air: Summer
Rewrite : Fall
Kanon: Winter
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Old 2013-03-18, 08:59   Link #1232
Mazyrian
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Air and Kanon have an obvious season theme, but for Clannad and Rewrite is a little far fetched. Clannad does start in spring, but it usually goes past it, and doesn't really have any spring symbolism, and the only fall-like thing in Rewrite is the festival (which is not that important).

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Old 2013-03-18, 10:02   Link #1233
Zankoku12
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Well,Key put the season theme like that themself and it's not like I make it up...
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:30   Link #1234
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
There was never a traumatizing event in Rin past, it was a lie from Kengo, Masato and Kyousuke during Refrain to explain to Riki why Rin was in such a state to begin with.
In refrain Rin still remembered the events at the ending of Rin2 but not clearly, the loop should have wiped her memories but the event traumatized her so much that the loop didn't manage to erase it completely for her, but it did erase Riki's memories of it. So to explain to him why she was in that state they simply told him the traumatizing event she remembered happened when she was a kid.
From what I remember from playing the VN there actually was a traumatizing event in her childhood. I remember during Kyousuke's episode he was thinking to himself about how far he was going, and said he recreated the event that traumatized Rin in order to make her stronger more quickly, but it backfired on him.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:39   Link #1235
Randrak42
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From what I remember from playing the VN there actually was a traumatizing event in her childhood. I remember during Kyousuke's episode he was thinking to himself about how far he was going, and said he recreated the event that traumatized Rin in order to make her stronger more quickly, but it backfired on him.
I don't remember that...but it's possible. Got a screencap?
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Old 2013-03-20, 14:36   Link #1236
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I don't remember that...but it's possible. Got a screencap?
After searching for the scene on Youtube (Would've went to the game itself but I had to move the saves somewhere else) the most I could find was this.

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This scene was when Kyousuke was explaining how he was willing to do anything to make Rin and Riki stronger. Considering the context and the wording, the full sentence being "Drove Rin into a corner, made her dig up her personal trauma, and drove her to despair", it does seem like a childhood trauma is being implied. Granted it has been a while since I last played so I might be mistaken.
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Old 2013-03-20, 15:36   Link #1237
Randrak42
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Huh, how about that...well it could also be referring to the fact that she's was an extreme introvert since a young age.
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Old 2013-03-20, 18:12   Link #1238
trinitem
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With regards to the setting and context, I would say he was just referring to events from Rin 2. Can't recall any other scenes that hinted much about traumas from before the dream world events.

Had fun taking some liberties in this playthrough .
Images
Riki in control
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Now a few questions (apologies if redundant, but I did take a look through past pages):

Which installments are generally considered canon?
Little Busters!
Ex
Kud Wafter
Perfect Edition Drama CD

How did Kyousuke ask Riki "It's enough, isn't it?"? Wouldn't he have been long dead by that point if Riki had opted to immediately run?

Since Lennon = Kyousuke, was Kyousuke being a Loli-Loli Hunter each time Lennon slid onto Rin's face?
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Old 2013-03-20, 20:51   Link #1239
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Huh, how about that...well it could also be referring to the fact that she's was an extreme introvert since a young age.
Yeah, they never really did explain why Rin was so anti-social, normally everyone would just assume that she was just cripplingly shy. However, since pretty much every heroine in Little Busters had some sort of traumatic background story it makes it easy to think that Rin had one too. But since there is a depressingly small amount of evidence for that theory, it may be best just to assume the crippling shyness.

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Which installments are generally considered canon?
Little Busters! is definitely canon, considering its the original and all. As for EX, Saya and Kanata are most likely canon, however Sasami's route is debatable (And by that I mean literally, there have been flame wars over it) since it occurs after Refrain. I have no idea about Kud Wafter, since it is the same style as Tomoyo After, it might be more of What If? type of thing. And the Drama CD (which I'm assuming is the one where they go to the beach) is canon.

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How did Kyousuke ask Riki "It's enough, isn't it?"? Wouldn't he have been long dead by that point if Riki had opted to immediately run?
While this may just simply be one of the supernatural elements Key does, my theory is that maybe Kyousuke inserted a part of himself into Riki (In hindsight this sentence is a bit awkward) to act kind as a conscience, much like how Lennon was a part of himself.

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Since Lennon = Kyousuke, was Kyousuke being a Loli-Loli Hunter each time Lennon slid onto Rin's face?
Considering Kyousuke's conversation with Mio about the whole "Onii-san" thing, I wouldn't put it past him if he was a Siscon in addition to being a Lolicon.
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Last edited by Hollownerox; 2013-03-20 at 21:07.
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Old 2013-03-29, 09:43   Link #1240
Chr0nicz420
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I have a question about Sasami's route.

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however Sasami's route is debatable (And by that I mean literally, there have been flame wars over it) since it occurs after Refrain.
Since Sasami's route takes place after Refrain, most likely that's treated as a sequel of LB but only a single route. Therefore her route is also canon.

But that also means SasamiXRiki is canon?

Last edited by Chr0nicz420; 2013-03-29 at 09:57.
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