AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-19, 15:40   Link #3401
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Certainly I play mahjong myself, I mentioned my tenhou ID in a bit of a non-sequitur not too long ago. Dumping safe tiles is not really relevant in Shizu's specific case because the opponent who won off her was in damaten. Defending against damaten is really more about detecting when your opponents' reach tenpai and estimating the value of their hands once they have it. Then, certainly, you proceed to play safe tiles, but the nature of furiten in riichi mahjong actually means that safe tiles tend to become more available the longer you spend in betaori, and the majority of wins against opponents in betaori tends to be within the first two rounds of tenpai, against opponents who either decide to push or have no safe tiles. Unless there are multiple players pushing/attacking, it is quite extraordinarily unlucky to be hit by a player you are against in full betaori. Meanwhile, if you are under attack by multiple players and are completely out of safe tiles, that's when you make a bet on estimating your opponents' hand values (open hands are good) and try to play into a cheaper player's hand.

As far as going for quick fast hands, you are never 'forced' to do so unless you are flat out gambling (i.e. betting on luck). Only certain hand shapes are suitable for going after quick wins, if you're in a defensive position the rest of the time you should betaori. Regardless of the narrowness of your lead, if you have a poor starting hand it is pure recklessness to try to force a winning hand out of it.
Sorry I had neglected to reply to that. My bottom line was really that yes, there is an objective and optimal way of going about playing defensively, and yes it works most of the time if you commit to it. And yes, if you play defensively you shouldn't be dealing into hanemans. However shit does happen, and that's why when we look to the performance of a mahjong player you look at his aggregate statistics rather than the results of a single hand because of all the hidden information going around. Heck this is true to an extent even when analyzing the performance of open information games like chess.

In any case I really feel like we (as in, everyone in this thread) are going into cyclical arguments with this whole debacle.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-19, 20:23   Link #3402
teja208
Critical fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
In any case I really feel like we (as in, everyone in this thread) are going into cyclical arguments with this whole debacle.
It's far worse on other Saki forum board though. It's mostly because we have to wait till April for next chapter of Saki, and had nothing better to do.
teja208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-19, 20:23   Link #3403
tarajis
El Psy Congroo
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Within the choice of Steins Gate...
Wew... been a while...

I'll start with Shiraitodai and Achiga going to the finals as in Mako's words 'a foregone conclusion' in my case... but Achiga overtaking Shiraitodai for first place in the semis gave an itch that however I scratched it won't go away...

Then I'll use a trump card and invoke the power of "I have my rights for my own opinion" .... no, no, no... it's not like I'm afraid to be attacked here and there... nothing of that sort really...

The last chapter of Saki Side A screams "ASSPULL!!" all over the place... haaa... now that's out and done with it I feel much better... well, what's done is done... but I think Ritz could have done it much better... maybe because she's getting overworked that eventually put her in the hospital...

With all the things being said about Shizu, the Monkey is still cool to me... I call her monkey every now and then but not in a derogatory manner but instead of her being funny and she's a fun character... if I had to choose between Shizu, Ryuuka and Himeko to go with Awai to the finals then I'll choose the monkey any day... I do believe that Shizu will have something up her sleeves to earn the right to face Saki in the National finals but her portrayal in the last chapter is kinda hard to swallow in one go... as I said before, before chapter 20 came out, Shizu never showed anything that will deem her a monster and just being a monster-slayer won't cut it when going between two monsters slugging it out... she'll just have her ass handed to her... well, the monkey being as she is now is all good because we don't want another peon to go up against our resident demonic overlord true final boss just to be slaughtered, right? I can't blame Ritz if it's the last chapter and she didn't have a choice but force feed us with it...

Now, after reading chapter 20... it gave a deja vu feel to it...

First off, the Harue-Sukoya case... it reminded me of Hisa and Mihoko... Sukoya as Hisa and Harue as Mihoko... Harue can't forget Sukoya because of what happened in the Nationals while Mihoko was also haunted of memories of Hisa during an unknown majhong tournament... now, they reunited again in a majhong tournament... Hisa now has a new bitch namely Mako and Sukoya has her own... err... I think in Sukoya's case it's the other way around... I think Sukoya is Kouko's bitch... forgive me for using the term bitch... I hope I didn't offend anybody...

Now, the Shiraitodai-Achiga case... it reminded me of Kazekoshi and Ryumonbuchi... Kazehoshi being Shiraitodai and Achiga as Ryumonbuchi in which case Achiga ousting Shiraitodai from their thrown... Awai will be Kana and Shizu as Koromo where Awai will have all her attention to Shizu in like doing another Demon bashing thing... then Teru not saying anything about her sister Saki will go something like while watching the monitor "Awai, that's not the only monster but there are two monsters." Now, all is left is for Himematsu to go with Kiyosumi then we'll have Kyouko to play as Yumi...
__________________
No one knows what the future holds.
It has infinite potential as this encounter makes it clear.
This is the choice of Steins Gate.
tarajis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-19, 21:16   Link #3404
Rava
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I just think it is funny how because Shizu has gotten so much attention, no one's even commented on how Saki gave a hint on how her Rinshan worked.
Rava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-19, 21:24   Link #3405
MarkS00N
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
I think Ritz is at fault for not putting much effort in foreshadowing Shizu as more than just ordinary player.

As for the anime studio, they seems to have no idea about future material when they made the first 12 episodes so like us viewers they too were under the impression that Achiga is underdog team struggling against the champion without any knowledge of Shizu's true potential. The proof of that is how they have no arm rest prepare for Yuu to spot Sumire's tell, and they switch Shiraitodai members' sitting possition at the end of ep. 12 in the Blu-ray/DVD to match the manga. So in the end, it's mostly Ritz's fault for lack of communication with the studio on the specific plot points, or maybe she hasn't finish planning how the rest of the match will turn out which includes Shizu's ability.
Actually, instead of blaming further in to technical stuff like knowing or not or not enough foreshadowing, I want to boil it down to something we have agree with: Anime is not long enough...

The problem that I've said is easily fixed if the anime has 25 episodes instead 12 + 4 episodes we have right now...
MarkS00N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-19, 22:25   Link #3406
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
Actually, I wonder about that, rather than the anime not being long enough, if the manga wasn't long enough for the anime to decently adapt things from it? The particular scene I'm thinking of is the scene in the anime where Achiga loses to like all the Nangou schools, which didn't happen in the manga and sort of just seemed like fanservice for the original series.
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-20, 01:43   Link #3407
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
You could look at it as Achiga being a side story school that is now trying way too hard to become main characters when they're not.

In any case I think we can all agree that Achiga was not given enough time to fully tell their story in a fashion that would make the current events easier to accept by a greater number of people.
The Green One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-20, 02:10   Link #3408
XenahortCharybdis
does whatever he wants.
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atop a hill of words.
Which is kind of funny when you think about it in the light of the whole A-side/B-side disc idea. But I digress.

In specific the problem would be the fact that the prefecture arc of Achiga-hen was more or less given the hand-wave treatment, whereas in Kiyosumi's arc the bulk of our initial inter-character dynamic ability potential character development blah blah blah was all handled there.

In other words A-side was bound to be pretty inadequate since we went straight into the nationals with much more speculation and loose ends than they could realistically handle with the amount of chapters in the total run.

That, and the fact that Saki in general just spends way too much time on 'Feel My Power' scenes, really hurts the whole thing. Most people seem to flaunt their power with all the finesse and efficacy of an RPG boss with bad dialogue tags.
XenahortCharybdis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 13:08   Link #3409
Grand Phoenix
The Master of Turkeys
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Watching the Dark Portal
Age: 24
Saki: Achiga-hen episodes 15 and 16 will premiere on April 2 and May 25 respectively.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-for-april-may
Grand Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 14:18   Link #3410
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Good to know we have a for sure time now, thanks for the update.
The Green One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 15:35   Link #3411
King-Slayer
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Phoenix View Post
Saki: Achiga-hen episodes 15 and 16 will premiere on April 2 and May 25 respectively.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-for-april-may
Glad to know the dates. Shame that 16 is so far off though.
King-Slayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 21:25   Link #3412
teja208
Critical fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine
That would also mean Shizu/Shiraitodai rage will get postpone for the non-manga audiences. I have to refrain myself form warning them, and hope they enjoy their little momemt of ignorance while it last, and lucky enough not getting spoiled by trolls. Seriously though, some endings are better left to your imagination.

Anyway, it's good to know that we will have ep. 15 in less than 2 weeks. I'm looking forward to see how Gokumi handles Himeko's keys, Toki Ghost, and Awai go all out with double richi. Especially the last one on the part after she said, "I have to DO IT." I don't know why, but I find that part lol.
teja208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-03, 10:54   Link #3413
MarkS00N
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
After some times, somehow I get a gist on Shizu's power...

While she is master of the mountain, probably she needs to conquer it first...
Thus the longer each game played, the faster Shizu ability to kick in...
However, once the mountains are mastered by Shizu, her power becomes ridiculously powerful that every other ability that require the player to use the mountain (mahjong wall) is seconded by her power...

This means people like Momo will able to use her ability against Shizu but people whose ability influence or influenced by wall will be nullified as long as Shizu wish for it...
Or at least weakened as Shindouji still able to use the key..

This 'waiting' (or as I like to call it, 'meditation') is actually consistent to Shizu's theme as Buddha instead of God/Demon which other player's hold...
If Shizu's theme is actually Buddha...

And this also explain the 'gear' in the training, which possibly means Shizu's power to master the 'mountain' require Shizu to play for a certain amount of time and/or hand which mean the higher Shizu's gear is, the shorter the time Shizu needs to master the 'mountain'...

However there are some questions left:
1) What does dice roll effect on Shizu's power?

2) Does Shizu's speed to master the mountain reset each game?

3) Or it simply decrease with each time Shizu doesn't playing Mahjong?

4) If it is persist each time games over, even though it decrease each time Shizu doesn't play, does it mean it is possible for Shizu to master the mountain in one simple hand?

5) As each hand will result in different mahjong wall because it has different content, how does the mountain mastered by Shizu?

6) However, if the content of the wall isn't the requirement but simply the shape, does it mean the place where deadwall exist (which shape the mountain) is the requirement as mountain mastered by Shizu? If this question's answer is yes, then it will also answer question number 1 and 5.

7) If the answer of number 6 is yes, then why Shizu able to master the end game even though it possibly the dice doesn't roll in Shizu's master mountain number?

There are possibility that the answer for number 7 is because by the end of the game, the game has seen all of the possible number the dice will roll or because as the game goes the dice goes from 2 to 10 all the time which then categories as 2,10 for Shizu's territory and 3-9 as Awai territory, which also means this category is actually a red herring as while Shizu hasn't mastered 3-9 before the South Round, when the dice roll to those number again Shizu has now mastered those mountains.

Well, just my guess...
MarkS00N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-03, 13:36   Link #3414
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
Quote:
1) What does dice roll effect on Shizu's power?
The dice roll indicates where the wall is cut and the tiles distributed to the players. Rather than how it effects Shizu's power it affects how it interacts with Awai's power. Since depending on the dice roll Awai's winning tile may be on the deep end of the wall, or around the middle.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 00:27   Link #3415
Requiem-x
The slacking one
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Well, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new anime episode over here, especially considering how good it was.

But, here's something you'll definetly want to talk about. Spoilers for the new chapter are coming out, and boy, did Ritz overdid it this time.

Spoiler for Spoilers:
Requiem-x is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 01:46   Link #3416
eavein18
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem-x View Post
Well, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the new anime episode over here, especially considering how good it was.

But, here's something you'll definetly want to talk about. Spoilers for the new chapter are coming out, and boy, did Ritz overdid it this time.

Spoiler for Spoilers:
whoa it's out? awesome~
__________________
eavein18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 06:36   Link #3417
night_sentinel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Finally!
The match is heating up.

Spoiler for Satoha vs. Yuuki:
night_sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 07:54   Link #3418
Bladezer
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Now, that Yuuki's east is broken. Its going to be a very different fight. Hopefully, Yuuki's south round is enough to take on our new Yakuza Batman. If not, well hang in there Tacos! There's still another East round around the break after all.
Don't forget that Yuuki has control of the table the entire east round.Just hope she does a good job at defense in the south round here
Bladezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 12:21   Link #3419
desrtsku
wuaaai!
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kalos Region.
Age: 21
Oh, dear God, Hajime should just stop wearing clothes.
__________________
Waaaaiii!
Pls, don't bully!
desrtsku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-04-04, 14:22   Link #3420
The Green One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Oh, dear God, Hajime should just stop wearing clothes.
Oh that's what she calls that outfit? How she hasn't been arrested yet for public indecency is beyond me.
The Green One is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mahjong, nopan, seinen, sport, yuri

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.