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Old 2013-02-08, 12:52   Link #21
RRW
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Maybe we should have Mod for Mod. but isnt that we have that? I mean A "Super" Mod that have higher authority than "regular" Mod
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Old 2013-02-08, 12:56   Link #22
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I'm quite fond of the current system because it gives moderation a "human" aspect. Rather than an anonymous "dark hand of justice" e.g. Batman, I see most of the mods as people with their own lives and interests, just like normal members. Relentlessflame in particular is a very good poster who makes thoughtful and interesting insights in numerous threads. I simply feel more comfortable when I've seen people in charge integrating with and contributing to the rest of the community. It gives me a reason to respect them.
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Old 2013-02-08, 13:37   Link #23
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
Maybe we should have Mod for Mod. but isnt that we have that? I mean A "Super" Mod that have higher authority than "regular" Mod
We have administrators, who are higher than mods. But there is no icon or way to identify them unless you go on the Who's Who page. And afaik admins do not have any more power than moderators to modify and delete posts and threads, which is all this thread is talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
I'm quite fond of the current system because it gives moderation a "human" aspect. Rather than an anonymous "dark hand of justice" e.g. Batman, I see most of the mods as people with their own lives and interests, just like normal members. Relentlessflame in particular is a very good poster who makes thoughtful and interesting insights in numerous threads. I simply feel more comfortable when I've seen people in charge integrating with and contributing to the rest of the community. It gives me a reason to respect them.
My feelings as well.
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Old 2013-02-08, 14:19   Link #24
Daniel E.
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I signed up to this forum using my real name and I have no intention whatsoever to suddenly hide under a different account. I also fail to see any real benefit to this, even if one were to agree with it.
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Old 2013-02-08, 14:23   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
I signed up to this forum using my real name and I have no intention whatsoever to suddenly hide under a different account. I also fail to see any real benefit to this, even if one were to agree with it.
Tru dat, tru dat.
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Old 2013-02-08, 16:55   Link #26
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It's a possibility, but I suspect that people are putting too much stock in their abilities and desires to deduce who's-who.
I'm fairly confident in the belief that we all secretly wonder about each other, especially those we talk to more than most. What's your gender? Your age? Who did you vote for? What do you look like? What do you do? These basic questions, many of which can be found as threads on this forum, help to establish an online identity, and more importantly, help to establish our specific "voice". How we act and interact and react to situations (our MO) can all be seen in the posts we've already written. Consequently, whether our names change or not we would still be the same...unless we deliberately acted different which is way too much hassle for such a non-issue.

Anecdote: I've been approached several times over the years on this forum and others by various members who recognize my "voice". I even had someone contact me asking if I participated in the old MST3K usenet group (which I did). Our voices are not so easily disguised nor should they be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I'm speaking from my own experience and bias, but it seems like many users who become moderators slowly experience a shift in their posting activity. It becomes more "professional," less casual and "fun." It may not be a shift that occurs due to moderator status, but I've noticed it on other forums as well.
Not really. We were initially chosen for the exact reason you feel we are 'distant'. From my own experience, I was chosen do to the basic fact that I sought to help the online community in any sub-forum and would generally keep an even keel no matter the topic. Professionalism, as you call it, was our casual and still is. P.S., you can still be a goofy goober even if you are being professional. They are not mutually exclusive, and I expect most of the moderators on this forum are more than willing to be as silly as they want to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Certainly. But why does it have to be one way or another?
Why do you care? I certainly do not (and I imagine most of my fellow moderators would agree), and while I appreciate the enthusiasm (and concern?), it is unneeded. I still have lively discussions in whichever thread or sub-forum I am invested in, so why should I fear keeping my name or hiding behind another?

Now I am going to go now and patiently wait for the results for the 2013 Animesuki Awards...

Last edited by james0246; 2013-02-09 at 15:16.
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Old 2013-02-08, 19:02   Link #27
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Not really into the idea myself. There's no need to
segregate matters to that degree especially since mods are supposed to represent the boards to a certain degree, However, If you wanted to do that, I would say to just have one generic moderator account
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Old 2013-02-08, 19:54   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
2) The mods will hide the connection between their normal account and moderating account, and act like some sort of hidden police, which seems very sneaky and untrustworthy.
Given the excellent crew of people who have chosen to volunteer their services as moderators, I cannot believe any one of them would act like this. It makes me wonder if you had a bad encounter with a moderator at some point to even dream this up.

I turned down the opportunity to moderate when NoSanninWa left the building. (He still hangs around the back door from time to time I've noticed recently.) At the time I wasn't sure how much longer I would be around here given my age and trends in anime. Even though I'm still here, I still prefer to be a gadfly who occasionally tries to keep unruly members in line. Moderation is a tough job, and I for one welcome our moderating overlords.

As for Ledgem's original argument, I don't see much evidence that this is a problem at all. The mods who post in threads I frequent don't seem any less likely to contribute or engage in argument than regular members, and I don't see many regular members cowering before the moderators' awesomeness.

I sometimes wondered if I was a bit intimidating when I had all those dots below my avatar, but I suspect my age is more intimidating to young newbies than anything else.
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Old 2013-02-08, 20:10   Link #29
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Given the excellent crew of people who have chosen to volunteer their services as moderators, I cannot believe any one of them would act like this. It makes me wonder if you had a bad encounter with a moderator at some point to even dream this up.
It was a possibility, as a way to prevent the uselessness of having two accounts, yet everyone knows who's has a moderator account anyway. Yeah it sucks, which is exactly why I was saying this idea would more harm than good. It's not about them acting evil or something, it's about hiding who they are so that Ledgem's idea wouldn't be a complete waste of time and everybody knows who everybody is anyway. please don't read it like that.

Just a situation that I spent ~5 minutes dreaming up to bail at least a little water from this proposal. Don't think I actually want it that way or just hate the mods here so much. I said in that same post that I think all of the mods here are nice and senible and respected, so now I must wonder why you dream this up of me?

No I have not had any bad run ins with moderators due to them sneaking around, and I'd like it to stay that way by Ledgem's idea not being taken up.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-08 at 22:00.
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Old 2013-02-08, 21:02   Link #30
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Another downside is that if Moderators had two accounts they'd end out becoming a kind of "Secret Police", and in fact could seem more forbidding.

Not only that, but Moderators should provide an example of the type of behaviour other users should emulate, and Moderators should be aware of the fact. If the Moderator status was separate, then Moderators could more easily take down others for bad behaviour, but would not so obviously have a duty to obey those rules themselves.

Also, having Moderators posting in forums in a normal fashion makes it seem friendlier, and often newer members go to Moderators to ask questions.
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Old 2013-02-08, 21:56   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Another downside is that if Moderators had two accounts they'd end out becoming a kind of "Secret Police", and in fact could seem more forbidding.

Not only that, but Moderators should provide an example of the type of behaviour other users should emulate, and Moderators should be aware of the fact. If the Moderator status was separate, then Moderators could more easily take down others for bad behaviour, but would not so obviously have a duty to obey those rules themselves.

Also, having Moderators posting in forums in a normal fashion makes it seem friendlier, and often newer members go to Moderators to ask questions.
Exactly.

Hope you understand, SeijiSensei. Why would you think I hate moderators here or had a bad run in with them and are biased against them?

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-08 at 22:08.
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Old 2013-02-09, 02:47   Link #32
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As many others have said, I don't think this will do anything to cure the animosity some people feel. Now it just means that rather than it being people you know who are making the sometimes-unpopular moderation decisions, there's a sort of "shadow council" of members who make all the same unpopular decisions... but there's even less perceived accountability, and more perception of abuse of power (even if it's no more likely to be true, but you just "never know"). Imagine you're having a fierce debate and it seems like people on one side of the debate are getting banned or having posts deleted while the "other side" never seems to be affected. Even if it's all for valid rule-based reasons, the first thing people will do is suspect someone on the other side of the debate is abusing their power. It's worse than "anonymous neg rep", it's now "anonymous bans" with constant finger pointing and mistrust. As much as it can be sometimes annoying to staff that people treat their regular opinions differently just because of the title they wear, it also helps people understand that the staff are people, not bots, and that they're very much part of the community. (The staff are not just "janitors", anonymous volunteers who go around and clean up messes. Granted that there are some people who think that's all moderators should do, but that isn't the way this forum is run.)

Speaking for myself, I wrote a whole ton of regular not-at-all-moderator-related posts in the last year (a lot more regular posts than mod-related ones for sure), and continue to do so as time permits me and anime inspires me. It's really no different at all than it was before I became a mod, to be honest. I was never the sort of person who watched a ton of shows or posted everywhere in the first place. I watch maybe 3-5 anime per season at the most, and am prone to falling behind due to work and other commitments (not related to being a mod). So I post when I can, moderate the problems I see as I post (as we were all instructed to do), and check up on reports as often as I can. It may give some people the impression that I moderate more than post because they don't watch the same shows I do or hang-out in the same threads, so only run into me when I step in due to a report or otherwise. It's likely the same with some other mods.

Also, I honestly don't think the reason some mods post less has much to do with the fact that they're a mod. It often has to do with the fact that they're either busy, or their interest in anime is waning/fluctuating. Popping-in from time to time to deal with reports doesn't take too long most of the time (and better to deal with things than to let them sit there). So even if you gave them a separate account, I don't think you'd suddenly see more posting from moderators. You just wouldn't notice as much when people leave or post less for other reasons (which happens all the time with regular posters).


At the end of the day, the reason for animosity between certain users and the staff is because people don't generally like submitting to someone else's authority when it interferes with whatever they want to do or whatever they think is right or best. As long as that remains the case (and I can't see how it ever won't be the case, no matter what policy changes could be enacted), the problem will remain. Trying to hide the moderators through a layer of abstraction creates more problems than it solves (and I'm not even convinced that it solves any real problem in the first place).
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Old 2013-02-09, 13:37   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
I'm quite fond of the current system because it gives moderation a "human" aspect. Rather than an anonymous "dark hand of justice" e.g. Batman, I see most of the mods as people with their own lives and interests, just like normal members. Relentlessflame in particular is a very good poster who makes thoughtful and interesting insights in numerous threads. I simply feel more comfortable when I've seen people in charge integrating with and contributing to the rest of the community. It gives me a reason to respect them.
This post has a lot of merit. When I was recently looking for a mod to privately contact about a particular forum rule/issue, the first one I contacted was the one I had seen posting around in the forums that I read. The mod in question had a posting style and frequency that made me feel that comfortable about sending in my request to him/her .

If mods post under pseudonyms for general banter, and mod-names for dealing with forum matters I get the feeling it'll only harden the view the AS community has of the mods. We'll only be seeing the stick(s) that the mods dish out and none of the carrot, so to speak .

I suppose the mods can answer this themselves, but I know that were I in the position, I'd feel uncomfortable about posting under a second account. It'd kinda be like living a second life, whilst trying to hide my mod status. I would find it hard to have a "straight" conversation feeling that I was hiding part of my identity .
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Old 2013-02-09, 13:43   Link #34
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Isn't it just a hassle to switch to a different account every time you have to do some moderating?

If it's anything like the user account scenario in Windows XP (between admin and standard accounts), most people would tend to use the account that has more privilege, unless there's some kind of a "UAC" method for AnimeSuki mods.
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Old 2013-02-09, 17:08   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
I suppose the mods can answer this themselves, but I know that were I in the position, I'd feel uncomfortable about posting under a second account. It'd kinda be like living a second life, whilst trying to hide my mod status. I would find it hard to have a "straight" conversation feeling that I was hiding part of my identity .
I personally feel this way, at least. I would not feel comfortable having two separate identities; it would always feel "sleazy" and dishonest to me. (And most of the cases where we've caught other people having multiple identities, it was indeed sleazy and dishonest; usually either a way to bypass moderation or to manipulate conversation.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Isn't it just a hassle to switch to a different account every time you have to do some moderating?
If I were forced to do this, I suppose I would just use two different web browsers, one for each login. But it'd still be a pain to constantly switch between the two windows and the supposed two "modes of operation". I do think it would be a hassle, and I don't see what of value would be gained.
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Old 2013-02-09, 17:33   Link #36
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Mods should not be secret police. Any other way and this idea will not work I think.
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Old 2013-02-10, 02:05   Link #37
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There is one forum I lurk (the Paradox forums, to be exact) where moderators switch to colored bold text of their choosing when they want to speak as moderators, as opposed to as forum users. And they have a line in their signature where they explain that, in the same colored bold text.

I thought it was an interesting way of doing the same persona switch that Ledgem wants to "gift" to the mods without the LAP-, ahem, men-in-black secrecy. Because it's so eye-catching when they do that, they can play around in the "common tongue" with less attention, then switch to Pay Attention mode when they need to.

Of course, the default color scheme of that forum is considerably darker and the palette of color choices in vB might not be nearly as acceptable in this place with its default bright theme.
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Old 2013-02-13, 09:19   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
There is one forum I lurk (the Paradox forums, to be exact) where moderators switch to colored bold text of their choosing when they want to speak as moderators, as opposed to as forum users. And they have a line in their signature where they explain that, in the same colored bold text.

I thought it was an interesting way of doing the same persona switch that Ledgem wants to "gift" to the mods without the LAP-, ahem, men-in-black secrecy. Because it's so eye-catching when they do that, they can play around in the "common tongue" with less attention, then switch to Pay Attention mode when they need to.

Of course, the default color scheme of that forum is considerably darker and the palette of color choices in vB might not be nearly as acceptable in this place with its default bright theme.
I've seen that as well on Paradox's Forums. Usually the colour they use is Red, and it pretty quickly gets people's attention. Might be a good innovation. For instance:

Referring to Manga developments in Anime threads is against Animesuki's spoiler policy, you have been warned.

Effective no?

Moderator: User has been infracted for using the color red.

Solace says "Hmmm."

Last edited by Solace; 2013-02-13 at 10:30. Reason: Playing around with other peoples posts. Mod abuse!
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:41   Link #39
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Had that experience once, which is why I closed my account and left the forum for a while. But, it rarely happens, and giving two accounts to mods does not automatically imply dual personalities that are separate from one another. And longtime followers or readers will recognize who they are "speaking to" sooner or later.
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:50   Link #40
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No one is above the law including the MODs... *shaking

Why should they have a dual account? Can they banned or infract themselves?

It's pointless.... Leave it as it is period.

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2013-03-25 at 06:36.
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