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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 11 22.45%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 40.82%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 26.53%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 6.12%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 2.04%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-19, 18:53   Link #101
creb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Wanderer View Post
Your body shuts down before you can actually attack somebody. The only way you can use your Power to kill someone is if you unknowingly did so (and you'd still die afterwards if you found out). Violence against your own species in general is also suppressed, with the Death Feedback (getting sick at the idea of attacking someone, and eventually dying if you persist) mechanism being a failsafe.
Saki seemed perfectly able to hurt the village elder in the first (or second?) episode during her initiation ritual, prior to being hit by what I assume is low levels of "death" feedback.

So, I don't buy this explanation one bit.

I don't think it's cowardice either, as we've seen plenty of examples of bravery from various humans throughout this series.

I chalk it up to the normal plot detail that is ignored in order to further the plot in the direction the author wants it to go. There's an oft used term for that, but I'm totally having a brain fart.
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:58   Link #102
Silent Wanderer
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Saki seemed perfectly able to hurt the village elder in the first (or second?) episode during her initiation ritual, prior to being hit by what I assume is low levels of "death" feedback.

So, I don't buy this explanation one bit.

I don't think it's cowardice either, as we've seen plenty of examples of bravery from various humans throughout this series.

I chalk it up to the normal plot detail that is ignored in order to further the plot in the direction the author wants it to go. There's an oft used term for that, but I'm totally having a brain fart.
The elder attacked himself, then blamed Saki. After he begged her to not kill him, she collapsed onto the floor and couldn't breath.
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Old 2013-03-19, 18:58   Link #103
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Saki seemed perfectly able to hurt the village elder in the first (or second?) episode during her initiation ritual, prior to being hit by what I assume is low levels of "death" feedback.
She wasn't hurting him. He was hurting himself (or rather, pretended to because he's not masochistic). If you look at the scene he's stabbing himself with a knife and telling Saki it's because of her, and begs her to not kill him. And Saki has a perfectly normal reaction to it.

Oops, ninja'd.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:01   Link #104
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
I don't think it's cowardice either, as we've seen plenty of examples of bravery from various humans throughout this series.
Sorry.. not all are that brave.... maybe frightened due to the unusual scenario already laid upon them....
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:18   Link #105
creb
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
She wasn't hurting him. He was hurting himself (or rather, pretended to because he's not masochistic). If you look at the scene he's stabbing himself with a knife and telling Saki it's because of her, and begs her to not kill him. And Saki has a perfectly normal reaction to it.

Oops, ninja'd.
Ah, well, there goes what I wrote above.

Though I still think it's unreasonable to state a human can't kill another human with their cantus, within the framework of physical rules this story is based upon. I have to assume, at the very least, there's been at least one incident in the world where a human accidentally killed another one via cantus, as one of many possible examples of how it could be accomplished.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:20   Link #106
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
I have to assume, at the very least, there's been at least one incident in the world where a human accidentally killed another one via cantus, as one of many possible examples of how it could be accomplished.
It happened just a few episodes ago - people killing what they thought were bakenezumi only to turn out they were either other humans. And then they died due to the death mechanism.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-19 at 19:37. Reason: Oops again, I misunderstood your post, sorry!
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:34   Link #107
creb
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I say you need to rewatch episode 4. They had a whole era of people with power vs. people without power with all sorts of violence involved, and then people with power using it to oppress and murder not only "normal" people but also each other...
I thought that was from an age prior to today's death feedback society though, so irrelevant to this particular issue. Though, again, I seem to have faulty memory for the early episodes, so I'm totally open to being wrong.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:39   Link #108
kuromitsu
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Yeah, I realized too late that I misunderstood what you were talking about, sorry.

Anyway, as I said above, it happened not long ago when the bakenezumi attacked the humans. People killed what they thought were human-shaped mutant bakenezumi, only to turn out they were real humans.
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Old 2013-03-20, 00:41   Link #109
Asuras
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I'm wondering why they don't use Kiroumaru to off the Fiend instead. It's been stated several times that the Bakenezumi themselves were used to kill humans where other humans could not. Keep him hidden, then BAM bursts out from nowhere and snaps his neck! Why haven't they thought of using him?
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Old 2013-03-20, 11:59   Link #110
Raghar
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Mirror? It reminds me about what psychologists said to me: Look at my face... It didn't work at me when I was 8, I wonder why it works on that character when he is 12.

Also, can someone explain how these bake nezumi were able to keep him away from all water surfaces, metal and basically everything that has any reflection?
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Old 2013-03-20, 12:07   Link #111
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Raghar View Post
Mirror? It reminds me about what psychologists said to me: Look at my face... It didn't work at me when I was 8, I wonder why it works on that character when he is 12.

Also, can someone explain how these bake nezumi were able to keep him away from all water surfaces, metal and basically everything that has any reflection?
That was just Saki's completely baseless theory, not a fact - the whole thing was a desperate last-ditch attempt to avoid having to kill their friends' son. (In the book both of them are well aware of this - Satoru is pretty much like "Saki, this is stupid, it won't work, there's no point in doing it." And even Saki says she knows it probably won't work but she just wanted to get her wish to give the kid a chance off her chest.)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-20 at 12:44.
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Old 2013-03-20, 17:45   Link #112
momonae
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My impression is that Yakomaru has taken "the ends justify the means" to such an extreme that he is now essentially amoral. In other words, Yakomaru is willing to do anything, no matter how morally disturbing or outrageous, in order to accomplish his goals. It's understandable for a person with even just basic moral values to consider Yakomaru an asshole.

For Kiroumaru to be a good antithesis to Yakomaru, I wanted him to be someone who would refuse to cross certain lines. One such line is stabbing those in the back that had every reason to consider Kiroumaru a loyal ally (and Kiroumaru himself gave them those reasons). And yet, Kiroumaru's searching of a WMD, and his words about his tribe becoming the dominant species on the planet, does at least raise the question of "Was Kiroumaru willing to stab humanity in the back?" If he was, then the differences between Kiroumaru and Yakomaru become much murkier, imo.

Still, as you point out, Kiroumaru does seem to value the notion of "paying back debts", which is of some value at least. Yes, it's more than what can be said about Yakomaru. But I myself liked the conception of Kiroumaru as this straight-shooting man of his word who would never betray his allies, and hence he is the complete antithesis to the silver-tongued manipulator Yakomaru. But that conception of Kiroumaru takes a real hit if he was willing to sneak attack humanity with a WMD.
He had been constantly waring with other bakenezumi colonies for supremacy already. And in his confession to Saki and Satoru he also said
Spoiler for in the novel:
I think if he were like a bakenezumi you wanted him to be, I think he would be a true moron or someone who looks nice to you but hated by his own country people. I mean as he is a general and a politician as well, he has to be very pragmatic whether he is noble or not and at least to some degree has to be a machiavellian. I think you can compare Kiroumaru, say, to a noble king of Sparta whereas Yakomaru to a demagogue or Pericles of Athens. They were as rigorous and ruthless as the bakenezumi are and maybe look alike for people of other part of the world or different era, but what they seek and value as a politician and citizen is very different.

As the viewers have already realized, the main theme of the plot is the relation between the humans and bakenezumi, and its development. So that describing, whenever given the opportunities, bakenezumi's society, civilization and their thoughts and mentalities was as important as describing the human's to give the viewers insights into them, but unfortunately it was abbreviated or omitted in many cases in this anime. For example, when Kiroumaru proposed Saki and Satoru to play a decoy for him, it was like a diatribe or pep talk and very acrimonious, especially to Satoru, and in the conversation Satoru was as if he was an unsatisfied customer, but in the anime it was like "Yes, Kiroumaru, you are right. I was wrong. I accept it." And in the childhood arc when Squealer had run out on Saki and excused himself for it to Saki, he explained himself so brilliantly that in the end all Saki could do was, even though she was as angry as she was, just grumbling in low voice. And I think the anime failed to convey how advanced and resourceful the bakenezumi's civilization already were at the time of the tsuchigumo war.

I hope in the next episode, the Tokyo expedition ends in the first 5 minitues and the rest is used for the aftermath of the rebellion (and what happened while Saki was in Tokyo), it seems there are so many things left to be told. I also hope the anime ends with "Going Home" playing as the anime started with it.

And on another note, as for the psychokinesis in the story, I think it was explained that it can do whatever thing to matters as long as you can properly "image" it. I think if psychokinesis really exists, it's nothing short of magic. Is it a kind of EMF or gravity? Or it's something which has little thing in common with any kind of known force? I liked the idea that you have to learn and practice to use the psychokinesis properly and the applications of the ability is very specialized in that things like breaking, crushing and burning can be done as soon as you get the ability but you have to practice hard just to fly yourself. Anyway, it didn't break my shield of suspense of belief except when Inui recharged the false minoshiro. It might very well be easy to make a electric current, make a moving EMF or disparity in electron distribution, but an electric circuit can be easily broken if you apply a wrong voltage to it.... Speaking of suspension of disbelief, aside from some physics lessons given in the novel (the author seems to be not educated in the science at his university), the biggest thing which broke my suspension of disbelief is the psykobuster, it's a McGuffin after all, but I think even a homemade IED, I think which can be easily made from farm or home chemicals, would do a much better job than the psykobuster. Bury them in some strategic places, if you get the report of sighting of the akki, order someone who knows nothing or an animal like nekodamashi to push a button to detonate the bomb....

And lastly, since nobody accuses Saki, I have to. Saki, you were entrusted the whole future of the village and still you did that? It's really disappointing thing for a one once deemed as a future village leader to have done. Regret what you have done in your grave and apologize to the maggots.
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Old 2013-03-20, 20:35   Link #113
kuromitsu
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Yep. Kiroumaru & Squealer are opposites and foils to each other. But the focus of this is not their relationship with humans - to think so is, I think, a very human-centric POV. As bakenezumi, the relationship with humans is pretty much a sword of Damocles constantly hanging over their heads, that needs to be dealt with definitively.

Their differences lie in their worldview, goals and morals as bakenezumi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonae View Post
As the viewers have already realized, the main theme of the plot is the relation between the humans and bakenezumi, and its development. So that describing, whenever given the opportunities, bakenezumi's society, civilization and their thoughts and mentalities was as important as describing the human's to give the viewers insights into them, but unfortunately it was abbreviated or omitted in many cases in this anime.
"Rebel against the false gods" is even the show's tagline, but they haven't really done as much as they could have with this theme, have they... But given the medium and the available time, I can't really blame them. (Except for when they would've had the time but used it for filler...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonae View Post
I hope in the next episode, the Tokyo expedition ends in the first 5 minitues and the rest is used for the aftermath of the rebellion (and what happened while Saki was in Tokyo), it seems there are so many things left to be told.
I'm pretty sure it won't end so soon. Even if they use montage for Saki explaining the situation and her plan, there's still the action itself, and you bet they'll make it really dramatic. 7-10 minutes at least, I say.

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Originally Posted by momonae View Post
but I think even a homemade IED, I think which can be easily made from farm or home chemicals, would do a much better job than the psykobuster. Bury them in some strategic places, if you get the report of sighting of the akki, order someone who knows nothing or an animal like nekodamashi to push a button to detonate the bomb....
I think IEDs are way too dangerous to keep around like that... As deadly as akki are, it's not like they pop up very often, so when there's no akki you have to deal with extremely dangerous weapons lying around (with most people presumably having no idea whatsoever that they're there in the first place). Plus, given how akki work, IIRC there's nothing that says they can't instinctively stop an explosion (12 year old Satoru could do it while he was barely conscious), and in any case a bomb only helps if the akki is relatively close to it. Otherwise they may get injured but that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonae View Post
And lastly, since nobody accuses Saki, I have to. Saki, you were entrusted the whole future of the village and still you did that? It's really disappointing thing for a one once deemed as a future village leader to have done. Regret what you have done in your grave and apologize to the maggots.
Well, technically she has nothing to regret... After all, if she hadn't done anything Satoru would've died even though he wouldn't have had to, they would've lost valuable pieces of information that may come very handy later on, and Saki herself would've lost the only support she had left, making her function worse as a leader.

I quite liked what she did. Was it a logical, cool-headed decision? Nope, not at all. But I think it was one of those game-changing gut based decisons that influence history all the time, to which not even the greatest leaders are immune. Saki may have made an emotional decision but in the end, it was the right decision. Luck (as it is) was on her side, which is also a valuable thing as far as leadership goes. (Not to mention, it was a nice plot twist, I'd never seen it coming in the book. Also it was a nice way to deal with the psycho buster that would've been a too convenient solution to the problem.)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-03-20 at 20:48.
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Old 2013-03-21, 22:22   Link #114
Guido
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The highlight of this penultimate episode came either when I didn't know what would be Yakomaru's next move, or Saki + Satoru running alone in the dark with the dreaded feeling of the fiend closing in on them.

It hasn't been easy to quell within me the conflict between two different worldviews.
Some people, like me, fall into the trap that if any being possess intelligence and reasoning on par with the human species, then sooner or later their nature will evolve to a similar way like ours.

Of course, the Bakenezumi had to put with every humiliating concession and work at pain of death or annihilation from the humans, and once they found a window opened for growth they took it and maxed it out to the fullest for the benefit of their species.

When it comes to ensuring survival and prosperity of one's own species against another oppressing one, the most passionate members of the kin already rush right into the battlefield without giving too much thought about the cost, the implications, the sacrifices, and the consequences.
However, fair-minded members of the race will stop to try to think about it, if there's a tiny speck of a ground for rationality.

However, if we must accept that life is war the moment one's own existence is conceived, then one must everything within the scope of his or her own skills and attitude to keep himself or herself in constant change as the world continues to change.

I cannot say for certain that there are winners and losers but is just that both species intend to keep themselves alive for survival with the goal of annihilating the other, so their species may survive.

If what Shun's living memory within Saki encouraged her to think about the fiend, then the conclusion to me is clear that she must make him realize and understand that he's just the same member of their species just like them are to him. This could likely foil Yakomaru's plan and, perhaps, bring him to his grave.

Now, I'm just waiting for the last episode.
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Old 2013-03-22, 15:38   Link #115
warita
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Frankly, I dont think that making the fiend realize he is human would change anything. Why would it make him turn against the bakenozumi all of the sudden. So maybe he is not the same species, but he grew up with them, they taught him their language (or so it seems) and he considers them his own kin.

If he sees his own image and realizes he is human, he might feel confused, but I am sure he would not kill the bakemozumis because of it.

Plus, he could have easily thought his reflection in the mirror is some kind of a trick.
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Old 2013-04-06, 12:21   Link #116
Mouretsu
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This series made me sick .. Characters and Story were good, but the fate of Maria and Mamoru and their child is just plain, plain stupid and ... just stupid. I got this "hate" gut inside of me I can't seem to get out. But yet, I know I'm glad that the story itself was good and not one of those dumb "miracle" type series out there. I do not appreciate what happened to Maria and Mamoru and their child ... if you want to kill them off, at least do it appropriately .............
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Old 2013-04-07, 05:59   Link #117
kuromitsu
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This series made me sick .. Characters and Story were good, but the fate of Maria and Mamoru and their child is just plain, plain stupid and ... just stupid. ... if you want to kill them off, at least do it appropriately .............
Like... how?
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