AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-21, 14:36   Link #81
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I would also add to what you answered also this:
Looking at that manga page it just says that the 3rd hokage was the strongest of all. What all? All kages, that means the 5 kages of the 5 ninja villages. It wouldn't make any sense to compare him to the 1st for example because they lived in different times so they could have never met to fight or even practice
even with that definition, i have a hard time thinking sarutobi was stronger than oonoki

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Right, and in which chapter does Suigetsu refer to Hashirama as the God of Shinobi?
ch619 p1

Quote:
I don't suppose you want to try to argue that Hashirama is stronger then him?
no. why would i? with what we know right now, the so6p is the originator of ninjitsu and the strongest ninja of all time. if anyone is going to surpass him it will be naruto or a combo of naruto and sasuke
itachi-san314 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 16:00   Link #82
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjoses View Post

So it's most likely that Kishi is just referring to a category of shinobi ability.
Even using that simplification as a basis for analysis isn't too helpful considering that Hashirama, much the same as Rikudou-Sennin, was said to be so powerful that his very prowess was almost mythic considering how unimaginable his strength was.

Sarutobi was probably amazing. And, I expect that he really did learn all the jutsus in Konoha, making him even more amazing. But, it's tough to compete against characters (Hashirama and Madara) whose only real contemporary is as close to an actual God as the series can get (the Sage).
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 16:28   Link #83
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
the VotE fight takes place after konoha was formed and was the believed end of madara. hashirama cant kill himself right now or things will get weird with edo-tensei and people not realizing he's a zombie... lol
Then I'm guessing it won't happen until the conclusion of that fight, or at all.
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-21, 17:10   Link #84
DarthDestroiar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisoka?? View Post
Seems like Madara was really quite weak. He was easily beaten by both the first and second hokages.

Hopefully he is better now with the rinnegan
It was a 24 hour fight, thats not "weak" material at all, one man was just better then the other.
Where did you see the second beat him?
DarthDestroiar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 00:02   Link #85
Sasukemaru
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
This discussion has been more interesting then the chapter.

We got ppl claiming Madara is weak because he could only last 24 hours against the 1st and 2nd hokage plus 8 other senju by himself...Although i think it's likely that fight was just madara vs hashirama.

We got some guy refusing to accept sarutobi is weaker then hashirama...Oh yeah, and Frieza is still the most powerful being in the dbz universe because king kai said it that one time.
Sasukemaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 00:14   Link #86
JustRob
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Except Hashirama was never outright stated to be stronger then Hiruzen.
__________________
The betrayal you can see is trivial. What is truly fearsome, is the betrayal you don't see.
JustRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 09:33   Link #87
DarthDestroiar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasukemaru View Post
This discussion has been more interesting then the chapter.

We got ppl claiming Madara is weak because he could only last 24 hours against the 1st and 2nd hokage plus 8 other senju by himself...Although i think it's likely that fight was just madara vs hashirama.

We got some guy refusing to accept sarutobi is weaker then hashirama...Oh yeah, and Frieza is still the most powerful being in the dbz universe because king kai said it that one time.
Technically Frieza is the stronguest (because he was not some android creation or a wizard creation) so he was. And you are right in the Madara part , he only lasted in a 24 hour fight against the first so weak...
DarthDestroiar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 11:28   Link #88
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRob View Post
Except Hashirama was never outright stated to be stronger then Hiruzen.
and naruto was never outright stated to be stronger than shino but we can use basic logical deductions can't we? i prefer to not have every last detail and comparison spelled out for me. it's not difficult to see that hashirama was stronger than hiruzen. you just have to remove your blinders
itachi-san314 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 20:03   Link #89
solidguy
I'm not a tumor
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the dreams of beautiful women
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
and naruto was never outright stated to be stronger than shino but we can use basic logical deductions can't we? i prefer to not have every last detail and comparison spelled out for me. it's not difficult to see that hashirama was stronger than hiruzen. you just have to remove your blinders
But at the same time Shino was never stated to be a God of shinobi... I can live with God of Shinobi as describing the strongest ninja around. But it could also refer to Sarutobi being at the pinnacle of shinobi excellence without necessarily having 'Godlike' fighting strength. Kinda similar to how a boxer can be an extremely technical boxers boxer and get knocked tfo by a Mike Tyson kinda guy (which is kind of a bad example because Mike was extremely technical too -_- (but the point is raw strength vs 'ninja nouse').

Last edited by solidguy; 2013-03-22 at 20:14.
solidguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-22, 22:37   Link #90
Midnight Commander
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Command center, the ship's bridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidguy View Post
But at the same time Shino was never stated to be a God of shinobi... I can live with God of Shinobi as describing the strongest ninja around. But it could also refer to Sarutobi being at the pinnacle of shinobi excellence without necessarily having 'Godlike' fighting strength. Kinda similar to how a boxer can be an extremely technical boxers boxer and get knocked tfo by a Mike Tyson kinda guy (which is kind of a bad example because Mike was extremely technical too -_- (but the point is raw strength vs 'ninja nouse').
The title "God" of Shinobi seems to imply abilities beyond that of even elite shinobi, and honestly sounds all inclusive in regards to power, skill, and other atrributes. It doesn't seem likely that they'd describe someone as the God of shinobi because of technical prowess, and not god-like ability.

Out of curiosity(not necessarily directed at you in particular), why are some of you so adamant about Hiruzen holding this title, or being stronger than Hashirama?
Midnight Commander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 00:17   Link #91
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Out of curiosity(not necessarily directed at you in particular), why are some of you so adamant about Hiruzen holding this title, or being stronger than Hashirama?
because there's no doubt that hiruzen could fight someone of madara's skill who is also wielding the kyuubi wrapped in susano'o... and win of course
itachi-san314 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 11:40   Link #92
Monster0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rochester NY
This chapter gives another hint to the very end of the Naruto saga. Sakura had to become a medical ninja after all.
Sasuke will give Naruto his eyes,that will make things even.

Last edited by Monster0; 2013-03-23 at 11:56.
Monster0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 23:28   Link #93
Hisoka??
Ultra noob
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthDestroiar View Post
It was a 24 hour fight, thats not "weak" material at all, one man was just better then the other.
Where did you see the second beat him?
He got the Kyubbi as a pet which is external help and still lost in only 24 hours. Epic fights between equals in comics/mangas last for days or weeks before a victor emerges, by that standard, 24 hours is not quite a curb stomp, but shows a certain gap in ability.

Madara was quite clearly shown to be cut by the second in one of the panels.
Hisoka?? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 23:49   Link #94
Masuzu
勝利のため
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
^ That was Izuna.

Also, the Nine Tails was clearly not shown in this particular fight.

Not to mention he wasn't only fighting Hashirama.
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 03:52   Link #95
solidguy
I'm not a tumor
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the dreams of beautiful women
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
The title "God" of Shinobi seems to imply abilities beyond that of even elite shinobi, and honestly sounds all inclusive in regards to power, skill, and other atrributes. It doesn't seem likely that they'd describe someone as the God of shinobi because of technical prowess, and not god-like ability.

Out of curiosity(not necessarily directed at you in particular), why are some of you so adamant about Hiruzen holding this title, or being stronger than Hashirama?
Idk just think in comparison with One Piece and their use of 'Gods'. Eneru can be seen as Madara, Sarutobi can be seen as Gan Fall. I don't intend to make a direct comparison though, just want to show you the direction that I'm leaning towards. One was crazy strong; the other, still stronger than everyone else but not as looney toon leagues above everyone.

Hashirama was obv stronger than the third, but why can't the third also be seen as a God of Shinobi from a more political p.o.v? The leaf was the strongest village and he was at the helm of it for the longest period...i'd say it's probably the equivalent of being president of U.S.
solidguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 13:14   Link #96
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidguy View Post
i'd say it's probably the equivalent of being president of U.S.
and therefore not a god... compared to the current manga power levels, hiruzen isn't special at all (among the elite shinobi). the big excuse is always his old age, but look at what oonoki is capable of in his old age. if any of the more recent kages are godlike it's oonoki, not hiruzen. calling hiruzen the god of shinobi at this point makes no sense no matter how you want to slice it
itachi-san314 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 13:32   Link #97
Hunter
Bubbly and super fun
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
To be fair that's more about power inflation than actual power level within the story. If the author decides to put Edo-Sarutobi under the spotlight for some fan service you can be sure that he will be shown as a power to be reckoned with.
That said I wouldn't hold my breath, Kishomoto could have done that during the Kyubi attack flashback but he was too busy shining Yondaime's hair and I find more likely that he will do so again.
Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 17:14   Link #98
Ero-Senn1n
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
To be fair that's more about power inflation than actual power level within the story. If the author decides to put Edo-Sarutobi under the spotlight for some fan service you can be sure that he will be shown as a power to be reckoned with.
That said I wouldn't hold my breath, Kishomoto could have done that during the Kyubi attack flashback but he was too busy shining Yondaime's hair and I find more likely that he will do so again.
I think the best occasion would have been the Orochi vs Sarutobi battle. Which shouldn't have had a barrier made by 4 shitty less-then-jounin-level idiots, instead the battle should have been so intense that some jounins or chuunins wouldn't even join in because either Sarutobi ordered them to keep a distance to not die and instead go save the civilians or because they would accept that there's no reason for them to join this battle same as Shikaku decided not to join the Pain vs Naruto battle.

Of course it would still hold true that the 1st and 2nd were summoned in a weakened state, which wouldn't be revealed until now, but since Sarutobi had to fight 3 kage level people at the same time them being weakened compared to their prime would not mean that Sarutobi is weak. Such an epic battle and the fact that Orochi already told Sarutobi that his old age made him weak compared to his prime would do the job of imagining how strong Sarutobi was in his prime.

Although for me Sarutobi's fight would not seem so bad if it was not for the roof and barrier thing. I mean what is that roof made of? A roof that can stand the jutsu of 4 kage level ninja? Where was that magic roof when Pain attacked?
Ero-Senn1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 16:47   Link #99
Artimus_Prime
The First Rasengan!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
i kinda wouldnt mind seeing all the shodai kages when hashirama and madara finally form konoha and create the one village per country system..
__________________
Mokujin Rasengan
Artimus_Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 17:35   Link #100
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
and therefore not a god... compared to the current manga power levels, hiruzen isn't special at all (among the elite shinobi). the big excuse is always his old age, but look at what oonoki is capable of in his old age. if any of the more recent kages are godlike it's oonoki, not hiruzen. calling hiruzen the god of shinobi at this point makes no sense no matter how you want to slice it
Really? because I haven't seen the current kages do much of anything but gang up on Sasuke and get their butts handed to them by Madara.

Not to say that they aren't formidable, but I haven't seen the likes of Oonoki do anything that trumps Sarutobi.

But like it was said earlier, Hashirama's power is the result of hype. In order for Madara to be a credible major villain, he must be a unmatchable threat. So for anyone to have been his rival they too would have to be depicted as insanely powerful, thus you have the current "God of Shinobi" Hashirama.

Heh. To think there was time where people actually wondered if Kakuzu defeated Shodaime. Though I guess technically the outcome of that fight is unknown
__________________



Sabaku Kyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weekly spoiler discussion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.