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Old 2006-01-26, 06:04   Link #21
servitude
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This ain't Star Wars EP3 which by the way was better to the prior 2 prequels simply because Lucas woke up and actually used more real props. So no 3D isn't king. Its story and I liek Igloo for the fact it highlights the struggle of underdogs... I.e those that had no future in the MS age.

Its nice to see the Hidolof or whatever that Mobile Tank was called. I kinda liked it. More armour that your typical MS. More mobility that your average MS. More firepower than your average MS and hell more options in battle. But of course like they say the era of big guns is over. Smaller weapons have better manueverability. Hence their dominance.

But I like it a lot. Its really sad. Especially the second EP. was good at academy but failed in MS selection. Sad indeed and how once your're useless you're really discarded. Sad...

Oh well.. Just can't wait for Ep3 and what cool unused weapons they'll present and trust me.. THe idioctic morons designing for SEED 3 will copy some of the suits you seein Igloo.. Especially the mobile tank.... It will appear....
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Old 2006-01-26, 10:57   Link #22
Sety
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In all honesty MS Igloo does have a character of the week feeling, but the drama is MUCH better done than in say FFVII or most 3d Presentations. The music is good and you get the feeling of desperation as these are all normal people who've been considered refuse.
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Old 2006-01-26, 11:37   Link #23
SoldierOfDarkness
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Its nice to see the Hidolof or whatever that Mobile Tank was called. I kinda liked it. More armour that your typical MS. More mobility that your average MS. More firepower than your average MS and hell more options in battle. But of course like they say the era of big guns is over. Smaller weapons have better manueverability. Hence their dominance.
If it was up against a team of GMs armed with beam weaponry it probably would've had an even harder time. Not only are smaller weapons more flexible but they pack the power of a battleship.

Regardless though, the tank performed admirably, especially for a "failed" design but I can see why they dropped it in favour of the MS.

It's pathetic though, while the major didn't perform good on the MS he was still a good soldier to use for other purposes such as artillery, what a waste of talent.
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Old 2006-01-26, 11:49   Link #24
Deacon Blues
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Hardly a waste of talent, when gee... I don't know, MOBILE SUITS ARE THE MAIN WEAPON NOW! There weren't that many artillery stations... :/

The way I see this, the test was used as a means of getting rid of Sonnen without taking him out via other means.

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This ain't Star Wars EP3 which by the way was better to the prior 2 prequels simply because Lucas woke up and actually used more real props.
Star Wars wasn't anything to fap over either. The animation was pretty shitty for the most part in my opinion.

Episode 3 Screenshots:: http://www.zeonic-media.net/ms_igloo03.html
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戦っている人間には充実感がある。
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So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And itís also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2006-01-26, 11:52   Link #25
SoldierOfDarkness
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Hardly a waste of talent, when gee... I don't know, MOBILE SUITS ARE THE MAIN WEAPON NOW! There weren't that many artillery stations... :/
Didn't Zeon also deployed MA's as well? Sure they were experimental but they could've assigned him to those instead.
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Old 2006-01-26, 12:31   Link #26
Sety
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Originally Posted by Deacon Blues
Holy........o_o

Those Balls look like they're going to eat me
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Old 2006-01-27, 05:46   Link #27
servitude
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Well mobile armours were fantastic things actually. In UC they're actually feared because a) BIG b) FAST c) Heavier weapons.

Still the tank would have done well as a support piece. One shot from its AP rounds ripped an MS straight. Couple of those could do well in defending or LR engagement. Especially since they have the combat data from the test mission.

But alas.. I guess its much easier to train a MS pilot than a tank driver. After all MS mimics human movement so you could imagine it in your head and use the controls appropriately where as a tank is a tank. You have to think like a tank to do well in it...

Still I'm never in favour of military might based on small nimble units. They're a liability in the middle of extreme fighting. Much like how the Stryker, trumped by the Pentagon as being "THE" frontline FV of the next generation. The Stryker is wheeled..... THe Stryker can't fire its main cannon while moving.. The Stryker is not heavily armoured. The Stryker has a narrow and tall body for its weight....

I would have prefered a mix of tracked and wheeled. The Strker is good and serves the role of recon, low intensity conflict, patrol.. But not as a frontline FV.
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Old 2006-01-27, 08:51   Link #28
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i thought the whole point of that mobile tank was to get rid of those Feds using the stolen zakus and the test was just a cover.
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Old 2006-01-27, 10:00   Link #29
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its more the other way around...

They didn't want to test the tank against live targets seeing as they assumed the Feddies were weak and wouldn't provide an accurate test... When they showed up in Zeon equipment, it was the perfect chance to kill two birds with one stone...
The Hildofr really was an abandoned prototype that was somehow de-mothballed and taken out for 'one last test'...
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Old 2006-01-27, 20:02   Link #30
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While the Hildolfr proved to have excellent combat abilities, it likely cost quite a bundle. I'm betting most of the $$ went to it's engine. The Hildolfr has a max. speed of about 110km/h and it weighed 220 tons. It would have probably been a logistical nightmare since it can't cross the largest bridges due not only to weight issues, but size issues. The transforming probably added quite alot.
I can see a scaled down MP model, but the caliber of it's main gun(30cm) would have to be cut down.

In all, even a scaled down varient would probably cost alot more than a Magella Attack Tank and be asked to do the same tasks that the Magella is already doing. I'm fairly certain that the Magella is capable of limited long-range fire support and since it's more flexible, it's not to shocking to see why a varient of the Hildolfr was never produced.

Also, the Zaku itself is capable of artillery roles. The Zaku Cannon and MS-06Js with leg rockets and/or a 175mm cannon make very flexible platforms for a fire-support role.
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Old 2006-01-27, 20:19   Link #31
SlugZilla
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Hidolfr was a fast machine but it's operations are heavily restricted to flat land, forget about space. Although from seeing the 2nd ep the Hildolfr was a beast at what it does best, it simply outclassed the Zakus.

And Beam rifles basically made Hildolfr's main cannon obsolete. Although it had a range advantage over beams, it was too massive.
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Old 2006-01-27, 21:36   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlugZilla
Hidolfr was a fast machine but it's operations are heavily restricted to flat land, forget about space. Although from seeing the 2nd ep the Hildolfr was a beast at what it does best, it simply outclassed the Zakus.

And Beam rifles basically made Hildolfr's main cannon obsolete. Although it had a range advantage over beams, it was too massive.

Beam rifles make everything obsolete, since they burn through everything but the absolute most advanced defense technologies.


So I don't see that as a very good argument.



As for flat land, The ground in Episode 2 was hardly flat, The hildolfr was jumping over rather high ridges and flying over relatively large humps through the desert.


Keeping in mind how absurdly large the Hildolfr is, it puts those ridges and hills it just rolled over without concern into aspect.


I think it could operate just about anywhere, Even on mountains if the slope angle wasn't to ridiculous.
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Old 2006-01-27, 22:13   Link #33
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At the time,, do all the GMs have Beam rifles? No one was using beam weapson yet. I thought only the Gundam rx-78 that came later was the first to use Beam rifle. So talking about Beam Rifles right now is meaning less, because given the time it still have with further delevelopment the Hildolfr could have Beam weapsons too.

And the size of the Hildolfr is comparable to the GunTank. So I don't really think it weight is too much of a factor too,, Given it's size it weight is spread across a wider area instead of concintrating all the weight on a Mobile Suit Foot.

After the Desert battle the Hildolfr looks fixable too.

Hildolfr was a kick ass Mobile Armor,, it's just the higher ups already given up on it before seeing it in real combat. With the data from this real desert battle a renew Modifild Hildolfr would have be painted REd becaue Char would be piloting it on Earth.

This reminds me of the F-14,, dam it, >_<
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Old 2006-01-27, 23:28   Link #34
Commander 598
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And the size of the Hildolfr is comparable to the GunTank. So I don't really think it weight is too much of a factor too,, Given it's size it weight is spread across a wider area instead of concintrating all the weight on a Mobile Suit Foot.
An MS-06J Zaku II weighs in at 56 metric tons empty and 75 at the maximum. The YMT-05 Hildolfr weighs 220 metric tons. It's a big difference. In fact, the Hildolfr's tracks probably put more pressure on the ground than a Zaku's foot.

The RX-75 Guntank Mass Prod. Type weighs 56 metric tons empty and has a max gross weight of 80 metric tons. Of course, this is the same Guntank that was devastated by a burst from a Gouf's 50mm handgun. The White Base's RX-75-4 has the same weight.

MAHQ gives the following for the Hildolfr's dimensions:

Overall length: 35.3 meters
Overall width: 14.7 meters
Normal height: 8.6 meters
Maximum height: 13.3 meters

I'd be floored if something that weighs as much and is as big as the Hildolfr could cross ANY bridge.

We can tell, that the design borrows from conventional tanks in that it(Normally) has a low profile.
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Old 2006-01-27, 23:45   Link #35
SlugZilla
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Originally Posted by Komataguri
Beam rifles make everything obsolete, since they burn through everything but the absolute most advanced defense technologies.
That's not entirely what I was talking about, the Hidolfr's size was what could handle its massive cannon that a MS could not. But the plan to incorporate mega particle and beam weapons into mobile suits basically killed the purpose of a tank (whose role was to carry heavy weapons), because they could fit powerful weaponry onto mobile suits which was not previously possible. Where the tank had an absolute advantage in firepower, it had lost it to superior technology. The Dom has more than double the speed of the Hildolfr, so even its speed advantage was nullified. Even though beam rifles weren't used then they still had a feel of the technology with bigger versions on ships. The theory was there for years but it was never put into execution until they absolutely counted on it. The Federation by July had a hand held beam weapon but it took months before for that idea to come into conception. It was clear from what Zeon had known about minovsky technology, it was only a matter of time before they would have MS with beam weapons of their own so it was not in their interest to build more tanks but prepare for the future by concentrating on MS and the occasional MA. With the potential of minovsky physics combined with the versatility of mobile suits, it was clear why they made the choice they made.

Quote:
As for flat land, The ground in Episode 2 was hardly flat, The hildolfr was jumping over rather high ridges and flying over relatively large humps through the desert.


Keeping in mind how absurdly large the Hildolfr is, it puts those ridges and hills it just rolled over without concern into aspect.


I think it could operate just about anywhere, Even on mountains if the slope angle wasn't to ridiculous.
It was pretty flat, more than enough for a tank to move about in. But it got jammed by a Zaku body part so it pretty much shows it's impossible to move through rocky zones.
In urban environments they can only move between buildings on the streets, but a MS can step, jump or boost over buildings or obstables very easily. It won't even have a chance at Great Canyon.
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Old 2006-01-29, 23:17   Link #36
Protto
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does anyone know when is the 3rd one coming out?
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Old 2006-01-29, 23:30   Link #37
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does anyone know when is the 3rd one coming out?
Its been out for a while. Just wait for the fansubbers to get to it.
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Old 2006-02-15, 08:32   Link #38
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It's been subbed by [gg] - http://www.mininova.org/get/226436
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Old 2006-02-15, 12:41   Link #39
RX-93 HI-NU
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Erm...I think its liscensed...
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Old 2006-02-15, 13:12   Link #40
SoldierOfDarkness
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It's been licensed? I haven't heard any news from Gunota, Gundamofficial, MAHQ, or Animesuki's database about it.

Eitherway, my thoughts on the episode.

The Zudah IMO is a pretty impressive mobile suit. During the first sortie, even though they were just balls, the Zudahs just ran circles around them and forced them to retreat. LIke the captain said, "nothings better than winning a fight without a fight."

Just one question though, when they showed the Gundam, was that an actual footage from the original series digitized into this show?

Then when the truth was revealed about the Zudah, then everything for that Major fell apart, the guy had so much hope for it but I think in the end he allowed his ego and pride get the best of him. Had he spent those last 4 years tweaking the suit then he might've stood a chance. Though the suit would've been dropped anyways in favor of the beam armed gelgoog and the Rick Dom.

The GM's and balls looked cool, especially the part where those Balls owned those ground-type Zakus, at first I thought the balls were equipped with tractor beams but then realized why

The GM's moves were a little silly when they were playing catch with the Zudah. Oh well.

Eitherway a nice episode.
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