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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's - Rating
Perfect 10 14 23.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 26.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 20.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 5.00%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.67%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-22, 23:11   Link #461
ChronoReverse
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Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.

The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).

For that matter, Nanoha and Raging Heart's relation seems to be completely neglected now?


I dunno, they put a lot of frames into the animation so technical work is good (choreography isn't as nice though, too much reliance on "money shots" and explosions). Maybe it's because I've simply cooled down on Nanoha nowadays; this movie just didn't move me.
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Old 2013-03-22, 23:21   Link #462
Demi.
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Music is one of the few things most people seem to like about it on this board.

Also, will post on your wall, Rising.
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Old 2013-03-22, 23:23   Link #463
ChronoReverse
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Really? I just watched the movie and I can't recall any theme already. The first time I heard the Starlight Breaker leitmotif, I ended up humming it for the entire next day.
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Old 2013-03-22, 23:28   Link #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
"The sooner Fate is gone from the franchise, the better." I believe it was.

I don't even think he was referring to her death.

Maybe these are two different posts we're talking about.
I did say something like that, but it was partially an argument ploy against Sansker. And no, it wasn't a death I was even thinking of.

As I stated, I think a large problem is that Fate is beginning to overshadow everyone. I don't think Tsuzuki will ever get rid of her (although Vivid and Force have pushed her to supporting cast), but I do honestly feel sometimes that for other people to get development and get sufficient spotlight time, Fate has to be retired to the background. I honestly think that, as long as she remains, he'll feel pressure to keep her front and center at the cost of someone else.

Not entirely, of course. As I noted, Vivid and Force have done a decent job keeping her as a secondary character. But I think Tsuzuki just might be more free to do that with the manga, as opposed to a major animated event. Vivid, though, lacks much of a plot, and Force isn't for everyone (despite me liking primarily because other characters finally get spotlights).

Lastly, I know you said you only step in when you feel the criticism is misplaced, but... can you tell me something? What criticisms do you have of Fate? Is there anything that you feel Fate is doing wrong, or has been done wrong with her? Something that you feel should be changed? Or something about her development that you don't care for? I'm honestly curious. Or do you think her portrayal (at least in this movie) was 100% perfect?

For the record, I don't see you as a "Fate fag." I have seen quite a few of those on other boards. Those people are outright hostile to anyone coming close to Nanoha, other than Fate. They'll complain at mere pictures that have Nanoha and Yuuno in them, even if there is no closeness implied. It's okay to like a character, but if you honestly feel that people are associating you as a "Fate fag" then you might want to take a step back. I know when I used to defend Akane in Ranma 1/2 (as a "Knight of the True Fiancee), I felt very emotional when Akane was called into question. Any attack on her felt like an attack on me, and so I had to respond.

And honestly? I would like to see Fate continue and develop, same as every other character. I just fear her presence will start to overshadow other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.
Not just you. It was part of my criticisms. "Snow Rain" is my all time #1 favorite piece of music, but I just couldn't take this version. And none of the other tracks stood out to me. At least in the first movie, "Don't Be Long" stood out, and I warmed up to it. I think the only Nana song I've liked since StrikerS ended, was "Justice to Believe" from WA5. The rest of the Movie 2nd music was fairly generic sounding.
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Old 2013-03-22, 23:47   Link #465
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I did say something like that, but it was partially an argument ploy against Sansker. And no, it wasn't a death I was even thinking of.

As I stated, I think a large problem is that Fate is beginning to overshadow everyone. I don't think Tsuzuki will ever get rid of her (although Vivid and Force have pushed her to supporting cast), but I do honestly feel sometimes that for other people to get development and get sufficient spotlight time, Fate has to be retired to the background. I honestly think that, as long as she remains, he'll feel pressure to keep her front and center at the cost of someone else.
Brushing her out of existence seems far more volatile to me then giving her some screen time but not enough to consider what you think is "too much". I'm happy if I get at least some Fate, but remove her entirely? I wont be a happy camper. I'm not going to come here and whine about it, I may just pack up and leave altogether, though.

Quote:
Lastly, I know you said you only step in when you feel the criticism is misplaced, but... can you tell me something? What criticisms do you have of Fate? Is there anything that you feel Fate is doing wrong, or has been done wrong with her? Something that you feel should be changed? Or something about her development that you don't care for? I'm honestly curious. Or do you think her portrayal (at least in this movie) was 100% perfect?
I can accept some criticism of her, but she is perfect for me. Whether it be the series or her movie counterpart. I'm completely in love with her undying loyalty. So subjectively speaking, I find no fault in Fate. Objectively? Well, anyone with half a clue would realize sticking around for Precia is only going to cause more pain. Yet she continues her self destructive path up until the end. Even giving one last ditch effort to sway Precia, even if it meant turning on Nanoha and friends. This is an imperfection in her character, but a wonderful one. So in short, there is nothing in her character I would want changed. If we're talking scenes, sure. I'd prefer the big damn heroes moment over the NanoFate reunion. Probably a few others if I put more thought into it.

Quote:
For the record, I don't see you as a "Fate fag." I have seen quite a few of those on other boards. Those people are outright hostile to anyone coming close to Nanoha, other than Fate. They'll complain at mere pictures that have Nanoha and Yuuno in them, even if there is no closeness implied. It's okay to like a character, but if you honestly feel that people are associating you as a "Fate fag" then you might want to take a step back. I know when I used to defend Akane in Ranma 1/2 (as a "Knight of the True Fiancee), I felt very emotional when Akane was called into question. Any attack on her felt like an attack on me, and so I had to respond.

And honestly? I would like to see Fate continue and develop, same as every other character. I just fear her presence will start to overshadow other people.
That sounds more like a NanoFate fan to me. As long as Fate's satisfied, I follow suit.
I don't know what people here associate me to, but I casually call myself one on AIM all the time. I'm sure it has negative connotations to it, but I'm not sure if "fan" fully describes me.
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Old 2013-03-23, 00:24   Link #466
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The majority of rabid shippers tend to be a plague on any franchise. So anyone that can be paired falls victim. Fortunately, I really don't have much shipping tendencies, and the ones that I do have are not of this series.

Heh, though I would admit that Fate would be my primary reason for following this series. I did come in because Nanoha is voiced by Yukari Tamura, my favorite VA though. I can't ever imagine liking a character and then proceeding to view them negatively too.

As for character hating/annoyance, I don't have much that much of it in this series. A lot of indifference and disapproval, but I don't outright despise a character. If you want to see me do that for real, you may read the Bakemonogatari or Ore no Imouto forums. [But not if you are a fan]

Though it is to be sure that a fairly devoted Fate fan would see more Fate as a better thing. But I suppose it's possible to overdose on something when variety lacks. Like eating too much chocolate with nothing else. Someone above me may disagree. But really, can you blame people?
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Old 2013-03-23, 01:11   Link #467
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^ XD I'm a random shipper (straight pairing mostly XD)

Skewed up
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Old 2013-03-23, 04:34   Link #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.

The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).

For that matter, Nanoha and Raging Heart's relation seems to be completely neglected now?


I dunno, they put a lot of frames into the animation so technical work is good (choreography isn't as nice though, too much reliance on "money shots" and explosions). Maybe it's because I've simply cooled down on Nanoha nowadays; this movie just didn't move me.
Nah, I thought most of the music was very bland as well.

Especially after Snow Rain, that was just...

Gawdawful.

There was no Brave Phoenix in this movie, which really made the fight against the core more awesome in the series.

And, Kaijo, what about Unchain World?
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Old 2013-03-23, 05:15   Link #469
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
I don't know what people here associate me to, but I casually call myself one on AIM all the time. I'm sure it has negative connotations to it, but I'm not sure if "fan" fully describes me.
People these days often forget that "fan" is short for "fanatic", so in a way, it suits you like a glove.

My own main problem with Fate is not so much that she has screentime, it's that what screentime she has in handled in a way to maximize fan-appeal rather than make for a good story. I already mentioned the save Nanoha scene in this movie, but really the most glaring issue comes from StrikerS, where she is pushed into the double-mama scene because this maximizes fan appeal.

Now, I've already said before many times that this should have been something Nanoha should have been facing alone, as it would drive her development. But that doesn't mean Fate should just stay off-screen. Because there were two other characters in StrikerS that needed development: Erio and Caro. The person central to their development? Fate.

If they had shied away from using Fate for maximum fan-appeal and instead focused her scenes on developing Erio and Caro (which would also give Fate more development too), StrikerS would have been a better anime because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Nah, I thought most of the music was very bland as well.

Especially after Snow Rain, that was just...

Gawdawful.

There was no Brave Phoenix in this movie, which really made the fight against the core more awesome in the series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Is it just me or is the music pretty meh in this movie? Seriously, they didn't even play a variation of "Tsudoe, Hoshi no Kagayaki" or at least have a substitute piece as epic.

The entire Excelion Buster sequence falls flat because of this (not to mention there was less tension because they neglected to mention the risk Raging Heart was taking to help Nanoha).
Mreh, I don't care about vocal pieces that much, mostly because I grew up with games and movies but lacked any regular music genre that I really liked, so I grew to love soundtracks themselves. My music folder has maybe a dozen regular songs, but several hundred musical pieces from various movies, series and games.

I found the music to be great for most of the movie. It blends well with the scenes, forming a good union and enhancing the atmosphere of the scenes.
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Old 2013-03-23, 05:18   Link #470
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As far as I'm concerned with music, it has to be catchy in order for me to enjoy it. Doesn't have to have words even, just has to be catchy.

I love the Street Fighter 4 Shop PV BGM after all.

But, no, none of the music after Snow Rain is memorable nor does it make me want to go find it to listen to it again.

Heck, for A's, the music that was playing when the Knights were revived in canon was superior to anything after Snow Rain in the movie.
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Old 2013-03-23, 08:29   Link #471
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For those of you who liked the movie and can't see why Kaijo or myself have a problem with it, I'm going to give you a comparison of the movie vs canon.

To be fair, I can name only THREE things the movie does better than canon and three things that are minor but I do like.

Minor 1: How the book activated. Like Demi. said, the book activating in response to Hayate's life does make a lot of sense.

Minor 2: Reinforce showing up sooner. Was a very nice thing, but since she showed up in the Sound Stages before she was awakened...

Minor 3: Reinforce having her own device was nice, as I said before.

Major 1: The pretty visuals, about the only thing we ALL agree on that's superior to canon.

Major 2: Lindy staring down the Wolkenritter, though that was quickly negated by the fact she didn't get to DO anything.

Major 3: Fight against the Darkness of the Book of Darkness, the thing fought back, MAJORLY improved from canon.

_________________________________

Now, for the comparison between A's and the movie, and WHY the movie fails, we're going to look at the first fight scene of A's and the movie as well as the Reinforce fight sequence, with a couple more inbetween. I'll do a character by character breakdown here.

Spoiler for Nanoha:


Spoiler for Fate:


Spoiler for Arf:


Spoiler for Yuuno:


Spoiler for Chrono:


Okay, now, the rest of the movie is basically like canon, all character bonding and defining moments are pretty much ripped straight from canon with very little change, at all.

Let's skip ahead to Reinforce vs Nanoha and Fate.

Well, before that even.

Spoiler for Wolkenritter's death scene:


now, Reinforce in the movie vs canon.

Spoiler for Reinforce's awakening:


Now, let's skip to the end of the Reinforce fight in canon vs the movie.

Spoiler for End of the Reinforce fight:


So, tell me, is this movie good? After looking at those comparisons, WHICH would you rather watch? The movie or canon?
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Old 2013-03-23, 09:25   Link #472
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I wouldn't say hate, as far as I'm concerned. I ultimately gave it a 6, which is average per the poll. I would say I am more "disappointed" because the movies didn't even live up to the series. If you can't at least duplicate what you've done before, then we have a problem.

A third movie doesn't make me rage or hate, though. I don't know how it goes, so how could it? I do have fears, which I am sure people are aware of so I won't restate them. But just the idea of a 3rd movie doesn't really move me either way. Well, I suppose if the third movie is completely new adventure (like I feel the movies should have been) then it might ultimately be a good thing; Tsuzuki will be forced to actually consider the story, instead of just cherry pick things to show, forgetting what made the story complete in the first place.
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Old 2013-03-23, 09:31   Link #473
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Just a quick note, I made the Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 3rd, Expectations and Speculation thread so move such discussion there.
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Old 2013-03-23, 09:52   Link #474
Kaijo
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On a random note, everytime they say "NachtWal" I can't help but see it written as "Narwhal." And thus I have this image if a Narwhal on Reinforce's wrist saying, "I'm the Jedi of the sea!"

Oh, I also completed my movie 2nd subtitles. Mostly just fixed the names to how we know them, and corrected a bit of the grammar and awkward sentences. If anyone is interested in subtitles (or wants to know how to easily fix their own), let me know.
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Old 2013-03-23, 09:55   Link #475
Takamura Mamoru
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On a random note, everytime they say "NachtWal" I can't help but see it written as "Narwhal." And thus I have this image if a Narwhal on Reinforce's wrist saying, "I'm the Jedi of the sea!"
It's most likely supposed to be NachtWall, which would be actual German.
It doesn't have the exact same meaning as wall in English, but it's similar.
You know this makes sense because it's a defense program.

You could translate NachtWall to NightBulwark or NightRampart, I guess.

To note, NachtWal would mean NightWhale. (ー`)
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Old 2013-03-23, 10:04   Link #476
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I am now imagining that this is what Aquaman was talking about when he said to use whales.

Too bad Nappa killed them all.
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Old 2013-03-23, 10:14   Link #477
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Well, the whales in question did save the earth from alien doom in Star Trek before...
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Old 2013-03-23, 10:21   Link #478
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And Nappa's the reason they went extinct apparently. XP
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Old 2013-03-23, 10:28   Link #479
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I just had a sudden thought...

It made me laugh.

When NachtWal shows up, I suddenly see this in my head...

Reinforce: (voiced by Samuel L. Jackson) I'm SICK of these mother fucking snakes in my mother fucking book!
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Old 2013-03-23, 10:29   Link #480
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Oh, I also completed my movie 2nd subtitles. Mostly just fixed the names to how we know them, and corrected a bit of the grammar and awkward sentences. If anyone is interested in subtitles (or wants to know how to easily fix their own), let me know.
I'll take a copy.
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