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Old 2013-03-18, 10:45   Link #241
novalysis
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I think they'd also butcher the world reset, and load the first part of the World's secret to Refrain (that the world is a dream).

Or, it might be anime original. There's no way you can preserve linearity and leave the Kurugaya route intact.
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Old 2013-03-19, 19:48   Link #242
novalysis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
People have got to realize though is that even if Kyo-Ani got it, they would have to remove the romance anyway. I believe that was the reason why they decide not to animate it, but JC Staff took a chance and actually decided to make an anime, even if it would be difficult. I think we should be thankful, the were the only company to actually care enough to animate this for a broader audience.
Continuing on with MCAL's statement, in theory there's a way for Little Busters to animate with Romance for each route. Simply animate the Common Route straight through to the baseball game, then start with the Kurugaya Route, and loop the world, hence revealing the world is a looping dream.

In each route then, romance is fully justified, as the re-set button is hit at the end of the route, with the awareness of the audience. Basically, the omnibus format built into the plot itself.

We are in an endless recursion of time. Each recursion is unique.
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Old 2013-03-19, 20:22   Link #243
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Continuing on with MCAL's statement, in theory there's a way for Little Busters to animate with Romance for each route. Simply animate the Common Route straight through to the baseball game, then start with the Kurugaya Route, and loop the world, hence revealing the world is a looping dream.

In each route then, romance is fully justified, as the re-set button is hit at the end of the route, with the awareness of the audience. Basically, the omnibus format built into the plot itself.

We are in an endless recursion of time. Each recursion is unique.
That's one way...but there's so many others. Even straight up doing it VN style would be fine too...I doubt people would be turned off if they were given unexplained loops after the common route if hints were thrown here and there before each loop. Hell, just have a scene after each route where it's shown that the world is starting to loop or that a shadowy figure is ordering it.
Oh the possibilities.

No studio HAD to make it with no romance, it was a choice rather than a necessity.

Not making the common route and the heroine route separate was a huge mistake.

I fear for the romanceless Kurugaya route...
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Old 2013-03-19, 21:19   Link #244
Ringil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Continuing on with MCAL's statement, in theory there's a way for Little Busters to animate with Romance for each route. Simply animate the Common Route straight through to the baseball game, then start with the Kurugaya Route, and loop the world, hence revealing the world is a looping dream.

In each route then, romance is fully justified, as the re-set button is hit at the end of the route, with the awareness of the audience. Basically, the omnibus format built into the plot itself.

We are in an endless recursion of time. Each recursion is unique.
The major problem with this method is that it pretty much ruins the surprise that the world is fake and the reason behind it. Given that this is a major plot point, it seems like a poor idea to do so.

I agree that there were plenty of methods to have a non-continuous format with romance, but if I remember correctly, lots of people wanted omnibus format. I don't think given that it'd be so trivial to have romance without making Riki seem like a huge player (see Kanon).

Though, it does make it interesting in how they plan to do Kurugaya's route. We'll just have to see.
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Old 2013-03-20, 00:34   Link #245
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Having Riki be in a romance with every girl in the anime would be absolutely terrible. Doing so many obvious loops in the story would also ruin the secret of the world. JC Staff made the right decision here and so far they're doing just fine. The lack of romance does weaken some aspects of some arcs, like Haruka and Kud (Though I debate Kud), but they more than make up for it with a stronger sense of friendship beyond the core group of the Little Busters!

Furthermore, I never really felt any emotion in the Kud route in the VN. In fact, the romance in it made me cringe. I think the anime version of her arc has been better.
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Old 2013-03-20, 02:20   Link #246
novalysis
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In any case, the Deus Ex Machina that some of the anime only audience has been moaning about should be explained by the ending of the Kurugaya arc. Of course, the question then is: what is outside this dream? What is in the Real World? What is the purpose of these shared dreams?
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Old 2013-03-20, 04:09   Link #247
Zankoku12
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Well in my opinion Riki doesn't need full blown romance with the heroines,just some mild romance like having several hints that the heroines have like him/have crush on him,that's why girl would prefer reaching out and depend on him more.Having it like that could make the arc feel less forced at least.

But I guess they think having any kind of romance would overshadowed the friendship theme they want to convey so they took it out entirely.

In the end,it's just a matter of preference...
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Old 2013-03-20, 10:50   Link #248
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^

Well Riki has been the one to more or less reach out to all the girls and invite them into the Little Busters. He has been pretty much doing what Kyousuke did for him all those years ago. I remember when Kurugaya once said in the VN that it wasn't Kyousuke who was the center of the group, but him, and I think the anime has captured that rather well. Of course Riki looks up to Kyousuke for everything and sees him as his leader, but the girls naturally came to the group because Riki reached out to them. It has a feeling of friendship, whereas if all the girls were just there because they were in love with Riki, this friendship theme would be dramatically weakened IMO. I like what they did here, and I feel it is completely natural.

As an aside, I like how they try to provide more connection in the group. Latest example being Mio's speech in the latest episode. There is a deeper sense of connection in the group.
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Old 2013-03-23, 11:03   Link #249
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My body is ready for Kengo and Miyuki event next week
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Old 2013-03-23, 13:11   Link #250
trinitem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
My body is ready for Kengo and Miyuki event next week
I'm quite excited myself for Kengo's epic feats.

Episode 24 Comparison:

I've actually liked a lot of the way JC has handled a lot of the ordering. People refer to the recycled animation for Riki's awakening, but I always connected it more to the narcolepsy before reading the novel.

They chose the katsu scene for the beginning. Iirc, Kengo in the novel eventually realized the theft on his own.

Puppet showing was not one of the original Lennon mission letters. Pretty much everything related to it was original. One thing that I did like from the original content was Kyousuke's story though. Kyousuke and Komari are played as a light pairing in the 4 koma's, so the two of them as the couple in Kyousuke's story had me a small "aww".

Komari's dwarf storybook with blatant Rin and Riki representations is a rather heavy hint towards the secret of the world. Riki realizes something about the book, but he can't remember. The version with only Riki and Rin left is well... a representation of the game's routes. You get locked out as you clear routes. Maybe I've already gone too far, but I won't say any further.

Edit Addition:
Disappearance order of the dwarves. I can't find anything to match for Kengo.

Aquamarine - Komari's Eyes
Purple - Haruka's hair
Red - Mio's hairband
Blue - Kud's Eyes
Yellow - Kurugaya's ribbon
Blue - Masato's eyes
Brown - Kengo's ???
Orange - Kyousuke's Aura?

Let's just say that Rin's desperate search for and encounter with Komari under an evening sun did not originally take place until refrain. The motives were slightly different as well. Pacing of their talk is a little bit quicker, and it reflects this sequence of events better I suppose.

Last edited by trinitem; 2013-03-24 at 00:42. Reason: dwarves
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Old 2013-03-24, 13:37   Link #251
lohenggrin
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Tatsumi Yuiko did really put up a great one for Mio Puppet Show, as good as Shiho Kawaragi did in VN. Both were so mesmerizing.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:47   Link #252
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I liked how the puppet show was done in the anime form. It seemed to have more actual purpose to the overall story. I did miss Mio's Alien impression I really liked that but different actress too I guess. Was still really funny anyway.

I hope they include kick the can and the god damn scenario in the story some place those along with the puppet show were my favorite fun parts.

I can't wait for Miyuki next. I hope she gets good screen time.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:52   Link #253
Reckoner
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Another note on something I like that JC has done compared to the VN.

Rin.

Seriously, her character has been so MUCH better in the anime. I often felt in the VN that she came off as inhuman and I had trouble accepting that she was ever that close to the other girls at all in Refrain. Here she's more believably human and has more natural interactions with the girls, though they still drive home that she's shy. Yet, it's not to such extreme levels that you find yourself believing that she's retarded.

Within the context of the anime, her development has been more natural, believable, and likable.

Glad to see that Kengo will get his moment before the season is over. I would like to see Miyuki's character expanded upon a little bit in the anime if at all possible. It wasn't clear to me in the VN that she was a girl who committed suicide until I came and read about it online. Considering that one really dramatic moment in Refrain, we could benefit from understanding the context of her importance to Kengo a little more.
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Old 2013-03-24, 14:58   Link #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Another note on something I like that JC has done compared to the VN.

Rin.

Seriously, her character has been so MUCH better in the anime. I often felt in the VN that she came off as inhuman and I had trouble accepting that she was ever that close to the other girls at all in Refrain. Here she's more believably human and has more natural interactions with the girls, though they still drive home that she's shy. Yet, it's not to such extreme levels that you find yourself believing that she's retarded.

Within the context of the anime, her development has been more natural, believable, and likable.

Glad to see that Kengo will get his moment before the season is over. I would like to see Miyuki's character expanded upon a little bit in the anime if at all possible. It wasn't clear to me in the VN that she was a girl who committed suicide until I came and read about it online. Considering that one really dramatic moment in Refrain, we could benefit from understanding the context of her importance to Kengo a little more.
I agree with you as well with Rin that part in Refrain had me under whelmed because I didn't feel that bond really well. Also too how they shafted then in Refrain made a large disconnect too.

I also want Miyuki to be expanded on. That would be awesome. I never got a few things about her either from the game and also read online about her. I wish she was more of bigger secondary character.
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Old 2013-03-25, 16:18   Link #255
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Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku View Post
I agree with you as well with Rin that part in Refrain had me under whelmed because I didn't feel that bond really well. Also too how they shafted then in Refrain made a large disconnect too.

I also want Miyuki to be expanded on. That would be awesome. I never got a few things about her either from the game and also read online about her. I wish she was more of bigger secondary character.
I also want to see Miyuki's story fleshed out a bit, though I hope they build up to what shes about to do a bit more, when she tried to jump in the VN I felt like it came out of nowhere at first. From what I have seen from the anime only forums, a lot of people are beginning to think Kengo is a simple side character, so this would be a great opportunity for J.C Staff to explain his character a bit more.
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Old 2013-03-30, 16:08   Link #256
trinitem
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Since this thread seems to have already established looping, more benefit to including it for more comparison.

Episode 25 Comparison:
Riki spends the first 1.5 minutes wondering about the secret of the world.

In your first loop, Kengo does not join the team. Makes the baseball match much harder at that.

You get to see a few scenes of Koshiki in the novel. Masato didn't call out Kengo though. Riki and Rin also never directly confront Koshiki.

The novel's suicide scene played out slightly different, but J.C. got the essence of it in.
* for some differences
  1. P.A. system warning sounds, and girls rush in with the truth.
  2. *Riki decides whether or not to call out Kengo to help her.
  3. *Masato takes down the kendo counselor who was blocking the way to the roof.
  4. Roof setup is similar, but Koshiki had a fence between the teachers and her.
  5. *Teachers start approaching, and the takedowns begin.
  6. Koshiki takes a step back.
  7. Kengo leaps over the fence into a rescue dive (cg)! There was only a cg for the fall, so we didn't get to see his landing form.

Koshiki, Kyousuke, Masato, Kengo, and Riki have the apology session in Kengo's room after a checkup.

**Major difference: Koshiki was not mentioned coming with the original Little Busters to the sports grounds. The new little busters were not present either. Kengo announces he will hit a homerun to circumvent running before taking a single swing. Rin sends a serious pitch, and Kengo slams a homerun.

I kind of like this version. With the new little busters around, there's more contribution to the encouraging atmosphere. Kengo's performance was more convincing this way as well. The light novel's version had Rin losing confidence because of how easily Kengo sent her pitch flying. As talented as he is, having Kengo struggle to hit a one-handed homerun plays better into Koshiki's extended focus.

The anime also had Kengo shouldering the burden to convince Koshiki that losing her vision left her paths in life. My take is that Kengo earning the home run after many a fall signifies the extra effort that would be needed in taking these alternative routes.

Tidbits:
-Riki was promoted during a breakfast after Kengo's entrance ceremony.
-No cg's in the visual novel had Kengo with his hair down.

Last edited by trinitem; 2013-04-02 at 09:39. Reason: a strange mesh of two thoughts needed to be untangled
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Old 2013-03-31, 00:33   Link #257
Reckoner
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This episode was everything I hoped it would be for Kengo and Miyuki's story. Good job.
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Old 2013-04-02, 05:04   Link #258
whitecloud
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So basically offscreen there is already few loops and bad ending? Since There are already many flashback of scene that only possible if riki already gone through some loops such as rin white uniform scene, kengo joining baseball, and some other that I forgot?
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Old 2013-04-05, 07:52   Link #259
lohenggrin
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This is probably just a minor change and i don't know how they appeared in converted edition or perfect edition since i only played original and ex version but we got to see the opponent team's members appear
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:57   Link #260
trinitem
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Episode 26 (end):

Anime:

Most of the final episode of pre-refrain is new material. They strengthened the friendship theme by having Riki talk to each heroine reaffirming it was he who helped each of the girls get past their problems minus Kurugaya.

Game:

Depending on the first or thereafter run in the game, you're either have or don't have Kengo for the baseball match. He busts out his boss jumper if you do have him.

The reassurance Riki received from other members was a series of texts from each of the female members.

Playing the match was surprisingly uninvolved. All the batting practice goes to nothing when the only interaction during the match is deciding batting order and play strategies.

After the match was generally when the character routes went into action. Depending on who you had flagged enough, flagged heroine's route would start after the baseball game.

-Riki has the option of relying on Kyousuke, Rin, or himself for deciding the positions.
-Kyousuke has the group play a game combining kick the can and tag some time before the match.
-Win or lose, Komari hosts a pancake party in celebration of the match.

Overview:

In the game, you play through a common route each time. After that common route, your choices dictate which character route you enter. The anime did a mix match instead.

Judging from Riki's perspective, we received a super common route with aspects of each heroine route. Because he only went as far as deeper friendship with each of the heroines, the ending built up to Riki realizing how he was able to help his newfound friends. He has his suspicions about Kyousuke, but thanks to Kyousuke's guidance, Riki was able to become a more independent person.

Kurugaya's route was not normally a part of refrain, so I'm interested in how J.C. will be incorporating anego there.
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