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Old 2013-03-23, 10:17   Link #12981
K. Shiruto
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To those who said Kumagawa's role was over, please rise your hands.
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Old 2013-03-23, 13:21   Link #12982
Wolfenstein
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I gotta say, though. It's really something to see how much Zenkichi grew.

From a kid who would spend his entire life chasing after his girlfriend, to an adult who realizes that he's not really going to live the life he wants to if he wastes it chasing after someone, that just being besides them isn't enough to give away everything else.

"Well, who cares!"

That was pretty epic.
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Old 2013-03-23, 13:22   Link #12983
DawnEmperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
To those who said Kumagawa's role was over, please rise your hands.
So you feel he has a more "ultimate" victory that he needs to achieve?
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Old 2013-03-23, 13:27   Link #12984
RedKey
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Well, I've already posted this basically everywhere on the Internet, so here you go (warning: big size)

Images
Hundred Gauntlets
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Old 2013-03-23, 14:29   Link #12985
DawnEmperor
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Putting aside him "never winning", why is he so absurdly powerful? Honestly it makes it a bit difficult to see him as a "loser" per se.
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Old 2013-03-23, 14:53   Link #12986
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
So you feel he has a more "ultimate" victory that he needs to achieve?
Perhaps. Actually, the twist would be if Medaka loses in the end.
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Old 2013-03-23, 14:58   Link #12987
Wolfenstein
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Kumagawa winning his "first" victory dosen't exempt him from earning other victories, it just means that his curse was broken and now he can imagine himself winning - he's no longer bound to ever lose because he can't see himself winning, so the whole "I couldn't win/I need to/want to win" shouldn't be a big deal for him anymore.

The only problem is how terrible that victory which sparked this was.
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Old 2013-03-23, 14:58   Link #12988
Insert_Gel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
So you feel he has a more "ultimate" victory that he needs to achieve?
So what kind of victory do Kumagawa needs to achieve? Is it the L-O-V-E of Medaka?
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Old 2013-03-23, 15:01   Link #12989
Wolfenstein
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I think the train of thought that he "needs" another victory is wrong. He'll just live life now, since he already won a victory to show the world that even he can win.
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Old 2013-03-23, 15:23   Link #12990
Insert_Gel
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Medaka needs to fight 100 people right? I wonder if Kumagawa will show up and what number he have.
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Old 2013-03-23, 16:30   Link #12991
DawnEmperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insert_Gel View Post
So what kind of victory do Kumagawa needs to achieve? Is it the L-O-V-E of Medaka?
According to Sol, it is(though he'll argue that it's the manga itself supporting it, not him).
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Old 2013-03-23, 16:45   Link #12992
Insert_Gel
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
According to Sol, it is(though he'll argue that it's the manga itself supporting it, not him).
If Kumagawa will take part in this arc and he's the last one that Medaka will fight then I guess this the moment he is waiting for
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Old 2013-03-23, 18:37   Link #12993
ccie20012
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@Wolfenstein
I do not agree with this interpretation. It was just tears of sadness from a temporary parting. And it does not apply to the breakdown of relationships.
It is just like his girlfriend is leaving to study in another city.
Zen can not keep it (half of it wants it.)
Medaka should leave (half of it wants to stay.)
Zen simply will catch her ​​again. Nothing has changed in general.

@Insert_Gel
IMHO. Ajimu last boss.
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Old 2013-03-23, 19:02   Link #12994
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Zen simply will catch her ​​again. Nothing has changed in general.
Drop the denial.

They might very well end up toguether after Medaka matures near the end of the manga or something, when they both come toguether mutually if they still love each other by then. Heck, they probably will.

But don't degrade Zenkichi's character development by saying that he's going to do exactly what he just stated that he's changing about himself, exactly something his old self would do - the version of him that he's come to hate.
The whole point is that he won't be chasing after her anymore because that would be a waste of his life and now wouldn't ultimately make him happy anymore, chasing her just to be besides is no longer something that can fully make him content, which is why he blatently said he didn't care that he didn't look cool and that they were getting separated for a while, and why he wanted the part of him that didn't want that to be hurt. Being with Medaka is no longer his drive and sole reason for living, and that's the genesis of the results that you see in the current chapters.

Will they get toguether again in the future? Yeah, probably.

But Zenkichi has changed. And don't you try to disregard or ignore that for the purposes of shipping.
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Old 2013-03-23, 19:43   Link #12995
ccie20012
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@Wolfenstein
His words that he did not care. It's just sarcasm. These are words spoken with bitterness and pain. He will not chase after her? He is happy that she is temporarily leaving him? He cries.

See page 17. I almost caught up with you ... We have divided again.
I believe that the Zen just went to another trip to catch up with her. Directly from this page.
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Old 2013-03-23, 20:02   Link #12996
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
@Wolfenstein
His words that he did not care. It's just sarcasm. These are words spoken with bitterness and pain. He will not chase after her? He is happy that she is temporarily leaving him? He cries.

See page 17. I almost caught up with you ... We have divided again.
I believe that the Zen just went to another trip to catch up with her. Directly from this page.
Shipping ruins great characters

Listen, Zenkichi clearly stated in the previous chapter that he won't keep wasting what he wants to do to be by Medaka's side. Just being by her no longer satisfies him. He's not like Hanten anymore.
So, no. He wasn't being sarcastic. He really dosen't care that he didn't look cool because he didn't have anyone to look cool to anymore. Why? Because he's done sacrificing himself to be by her side, done living to be by her side, it's no longer his sole motivation.
You're describing him as if he was his old self. Someone whose driving motivation to live is to be by Medaka's side. Something which he clearly expunged. He himself stated that he hated that he had become like Hanten, and what you're implying is that he hasn't changed from that at all.

The core of this event isn't his love for her, it's his love for the life that he currently wants, which was clashing with his love for her, so he had to pick a side. He chose to grow out of his childhood of always chasing Medaka and live what he wants to. Which is why he's becoming an adult by doing this.

And I take mild disgust at seeing you try to twist Zenkichi's character to suit shipping needs. So please, stop.
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Old 2013-03-23, 20:14   Link #12997
Lupus753
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
And I take mild disgust at seeing you try to twist Zenkichi's character to suit shipping needs. So please, stop.
Unfortunately, she can't stop. One person's Twisting Characterization is another's Perfectly Rational Interpretation. This is what shipping does to people.

Me, I think Zen's being honest and nonsarcastic, but it wouldn't be the first time I misread characterization cues.
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Old 2013-03-23, 20:25   Link #12998
willx
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You people all confuse me .. what does being independent and strong have to do with shipping? How many of you are dating, engaged or married in real life or have been? Relationships require sacrifice, but they don't make you give up on yourself as a person .. geez, everyone has dreams, people will follow them and be apart for a while. Is the idea of two people that love each other being away from each other that terrifying? Is the idea that people can follow their own paths but still love each other confusing in some way?
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Old 2013-03-23, 20:28   Link #12999
K. Shiruto
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Don't know what's gonna happen, but I must say this is the perfect chance to see some students who had little spotlight, such as the Plus Six (the two strongest of that group to clarify), Kamome or Momozono.
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Old 2013-03-23, 20:38   Link #13000
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
You people all confuse me .. what does being independent and strong have to do with shipping? How many of you are dating, engaged or married in real life or have been? Relationships require sacrifice, but they don't make you give up on yourself as a person .. geez, everyone has dreams, people will follow them and be apart for a while. Is the idea of two people that love each other being away from each other that terrifying? Is the idea that people can follow their own paths but still love each other confusing in some way?
I don't know, because I'm basically saying exactly what you are.

It's just that a certain poster is kind of twisting the motivations behind Zenkichi's actions in the current chapters, and that's something that kind of pisses me off a small tad, sorry.
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