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View Poll Results: Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai NEXT - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 25 34.25%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 21 28.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 28.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 5.48%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.37%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-03-25, 02:37   Link #141
Tenchi Ryu
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Yes...Kodaka was VERY clear about what he wanted, and that's friendship. That shouldn't even be debatable at this point. You keep making it sound like he was like "Well, I guess I want some friends I guess". He straight up says "I don't want a relationship now when I need some friends first".

I honestly don't know why you're still hung up on friendship. Friendship is the not the huge issue right now. Sena just straight up asked for his hand in marriage and confessed her love for him, in front of all his other love interest. We are PAST friendship problems for the moment. This entire scenario at the moment is romance related, unless you think marriage is code for best friends or something.

And no, not everyone thinks him running away like he did was the wrong choice, so you can't assume that we can just move on with that. It's divided as far as if what he's doing is right or wrong.
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Old 2013-03-25, 02:56   Link #142
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu View Post
Yes...Kodaka was VERY clear about what he wanted, and that's friendship. That shouldn't even be debatable at this point. You keep making it sound like he was like "Well, I guess I want some friends I guess". He straight up says "I don't want a relationship now when I need some friends first".

I honestly don't know why you're still hung up on friendship. Friendship is the not the huge issue right now. Sena just straight up asked for his hand in marriage and confessed her love for him, in front of all his other love interest. We are PAST friendship problems for the moment. This entire scenario at the moment is romance related, unless you think marriage is code for best friends or something.

And no, not everyone thinks him running away like he did was the wrong choice, so you can't assume that we can just move on with that. It's divided as far as if what he's doing is right or wrong.
well rewatch episode 07 and see the talk between kodaka and sena and you see he being "vague" about romance, he keep being aways up in the "wall" he never really go on any girl and say "i dont want date you and i want only being your friend and nothing more"(like say this can be some sort of end of world),
indeed everyone have his own opnion just like you and me, and for me your "explanation not enought to change mine toughts, kodaka is not the first harem leader who i see with this problem, i already watched many harems, and animes and like i said i hate this type of character like kodaka, because make very easy to make "girls magically" fallen in love(magnetic man girls) with him and he keep runing from this, making more mess.

well in the end what is matter is how you interpret the things and for me is very clear his character design.(until i see a really change i keep with mine definition).
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Old 2013-03-25, 03:28   Link #143
Haak
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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Sigh.

All the Kodaka hate.

Look, Kodaka's reaction was not the best way to handle it, but frankly Sena really acted inappropriately too.

You just don't propose marriage in a public setting without first knowing the answer. As a man you ought to know that, it would put the woman in an impossible position if she wants to say no. It could be considered manipulative. Not that I think Sena is being manipulative, she's just rushing forward, oblivious to social norms as usual.

...

Sena put Kodaka in a situation where there was no right answer only a least wrong answer. Which, assuming that Kodaka is not really interested in romance right now, would probably be to to say something along the lines that he's still in highschool and way to young to think about marriage, and that he really doesn't want to have a girlfriend, but that he does really enjoy Sena's company as a friend and he would like to continue being friends. Sort of leaving open the door to the possibility of something later.

Still would have hurt Sena something awful. Running away was also hurtful, but not that much worse then the best option.
It's hard to argue against this, but only because the point you're making lacks context. Are you making a third party point about the story's flaws or are you criticising the characters?

Because whilst what you said might be true in the real world, it definitely does not hold water in this story. Let's face it, what happens when confession takes place and the other party accepts it? It usually means they're in a relationship for life and they'll probably end up married with kids. That's obviously not how real life works at all but there you go: that's anime logic for you. And in any case, Sena wasn't actually asking Kodaka to marry her: She was just confessing to Kodaka. Marriage is just something she said she might like at some point or another. And the expression from Rika (an extremely obvious storyline cue) makes it very clear what the show is trying to tell us: It's Kodaka that's not doing the right thing for same reasons as last episode. Because that apparently makes him a coward.

Now you're free to criticize the show's logic (since I do it all the time) but criticising the character is another thing. It's not the character's fault if they have to abide by some pretty warped logic. For example, I get angry at Yozora's "bitchiness" to Sena all the time but I don't think that's what the show is trying to tell me (since it also makes it clear Yozora doesn't really want to hurt Sena) so it's not something I hold against Yozora because it's the story's fault if it wants their relationship to rest on some warped logic.

So what exactly is it that you're trying to say. Are you criticising the character or the show? because criticising a character based on real world logic doesn't really work.

Quote:
You especially don't do something like this in front of your romantic rival- at least not if you want her to be your best friend, which Sena obviously does. This is a love triangle, not just with Sena and Yozora fighting over Kodaka, but also having a friendship as well- and this just blew a huge hole in it- and after all the progress this episode. This has to be Yozora's nightmare ever since Sena joined the club.
On a third level party, I'd have to slightly disagree. I think it's better if something like this is put out there so the rival is there to have a fair say in it. I'd think it would be far worse if Sena did it behind Yozora's back and I think that's exactly how Yozora would interpret it and I wouldn't blame her for it. Of course, the much better option would be if Sena first talked to Yozora about it and let her know she's going to do it and if she had any objections, she should raise them now, but I don't expect either Sena or Yozora to be on that level yet.

On a character is level, it's impossible to say. Sena could have a perfectly good reason, or rather, the story can easily make one for her, so that Sena confessing to Kodaka in front of Yozora might be better for their friendship in the long run. It's not like their friendship is particularly realistic to begin with, so arguing that such a thing wouldn't be realistic is kinda pointless. The important thing is whether the story could work with it. Now where the story left off, we don't know whether Sena factored in Yozora's feelings when she decided to confess in front of her. It's possible she didn't, but since Sena has clearly demonstrated tact before this (when she asked Kodaka not to tell anyone about the engagement because it might upset Yozora), I'd say a far more reasonable approach would be to wait for the next episode to clarify what kind of an effect Sena's confession might actually have on their relationship.

Quote:
Compare this to the Rika situation, where she approached Kodaka alone, and thus allowed him to clumsily let her down sort of gently. Mainly because Rika did the hard work of reading between the lines, but still- Rika handled it very well which prevented it from becoming a disaster despite Kodaka's less then stellar handling. Sena is even clumsier than Kodaka.
No, not still. That's entire reason she was able to handle it better...

Quote:
As for Aoi, I thought it obvious that she was really just trying to force Sena to acknowledge her, and she didn't really care about shutting down the club.
Obvious? Really? Because I didn't see that at all. You mind if I ask what makes you think it's obvious?

Quote:
Too bad Sena isn't "clever" like Yozora and finally just brutalized Aoi out of the way. Although I guess she did move up from "who are you?" to "stop pissing on my flower garden you stupid dog."
Now this s a particularly curious statement because it seems to imply that you think Sena's attitude to Aoi was "stop pissing on my flower garden" before the incident. You mind if I ask where you're getting that from as well?
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Old 2013-03-25, 07:05   Link #144
mironicus
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It's possible she didn't, but since Sena has clearly demonstrated tact before this (when she asked Kodaka not to tell anyone about the engagement because it might upset Yozora),
It was the opposite. Kodaka requested that Sena should not tell Yozora anything about the engagement "There is no need to tell her. It doesn't involve her.".

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I'd say a far more reasonable approach would be to wait for the next episode to clarify what kind of an effect Sena's confession might actually have on their relationship.
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Old 2013-03-25, 09:12   Link #145
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It's hard to argue against this, but only because the point you're making lacks context. Are you making a third party point about the story's flaws or are you criticising the characters?

Because whilst what you said might be true in the real world, it definitely does not hold water in this story. Let's face it, what happens when confession takes place and the other party accepts it? It usually means they're in a relationship for life and they'll probably end up married with kids. That's obviously not how real life works at all but there you go: that's anime logic for you. And in any case, Sena wasn't actually asking Kodaka to marry her: She was just confessing to Kodaka. Marriage is just something she said she might like at some point or another. And the expression from Rika (an extremely obvious storyline cue) makes it very clear what the show is trying to tell us: It's Kodaka that's not doing the right thing for same reasons as last episode. Because that apparently makes him a coward.

Now you're free to criticize the show's logic (since I do it all the time) but criticising the character is another thing. It's not the character's fault if they have to abide by some pretty warped logic. For example, I get angry at Yozora's "bitchiness" to Sena all the time but I don't think that's what the show is trying to tell me (since it also makes it clear Yozora doesn't really want to hurt Sena) so it's not something I hold against Yozora because it's the story's fault if it wants their relationship to rest on some warped logic.

So what exactly is it that you're trying to say. Are you criticising the character or the show? because criticising a character based on real world logic doesn't really work.



On a third level party, I'd have to slightly disagree. I think it's better if something like this is put out there so the rival is there to have a fair say in it. I'd think it would be far worse if Sena did it behind Yozora's back and I think that's exactly how Yozora would interpret it and I wouldn't blame her for it. Of course, the much better option would be if Sena first talked to Yozora about it and let her know she's going to do it and if she had any objections, she should raise them now, but I don't expect either Sena or Yozora to be on that level yet.

On a character is level, it's impossible to say. Sena could have a perfectly good reason, or rather, the story can easily make one for her, so that Sena confessing to Kodaka in front of Yozora might be better for their friendship in the long run. It's not like their friendship is particularly realistic to begin with, so arguing that such a thing wouldn't be realistic is kinda pointless. The important thing is whether the story could work with it. Now where the story left off, we don't know whether Sena factored in Yozora's feelings when she decided to confess in front of her. It's possible she didn't, but since Sena has clearly demonstrated tact before this (when she asked Kodaka not to tell anyone about the engagement because it might upset Yozora), I'd say a far more reasonable approach would be to wait for the next episode to clarify what kind of an effect Sena's confession might actually have on their relationship.



No, not still. That's entire reason she was able to handle it better...



Obvious? Really? Because I didn't see that at all. You mind if I ask what makes you think it's obvious?



Now this s a particularly curious statement because it seems to imply that you think Sena's attitude to Aoi was "stop pissing on my flower garden" before the incident. You mind if I ask where you're getting that from as well?
Sena acts like a condescending bitch towards everyone except Kobato and Kodaka, not sure about Yozora. So I view Yozora's verbal/physical "beatdown" as something that makes sense.
The whole issue with the friendsip that confuses me is that Rika wants to move towards them all accepting themselves as friends hence her last omitted line by the wind and Kodaka refuses to accept that very friendship he wants which leads me to suspect that Kodaka is just in denial heaven or is super afraid of change.
Kodaka never acknowledges the people in the club as his friends and from all the stuff that they are doing, this doesn't make sense even when applying anime logic.He and Yozora always keep referencing "when we have friends or to prepare us for when we become popular/have friends" to the point where it just bodes the question "Are you in denial?"
P.S. Rika is too badass to get bossed around by Sena and there are omitted points that didn't make it to the anime where Sena insults/shows disrespect/doesn't give a damm about Maria and Yukimura.
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Old 2013-03-25, 10:16   Link #146
memeguy
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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
Sena acts like a condescending bitch towards everyone except Kobato and Kodaka, not sure about Yozora. So I view Yozora's verbal/physical "beatdown" as something that makes sense.
The whole issue with the friendsip that confuses me is that Rika wants to move towards them all accepting themselves as friends hence her last omitted line by the wind and Kodaka refuses to accept that very friendship he wants which leads me to suspect that Kodaka is just in denial heaven or is super afraid of change.
Kodaka never acknowledges the people in the club as his friends and from all the stuff that they are doing, this doesn't make sense even when applying anime logic.He and Yozora always keep referencing "when we have friends or to prepare us for when we become popular/have friends" to the point where it just bodes the question "Are you in denial?"
P.S. Rika is too badass to get bossed around by Sena and there are omitted points that didn't make it to the anime where Sena insults/shows disrespect/doesn't give a damm about Maria and Yukimura.
My interpretation is that Kodaka is well aware that they are all friends by any definition, but he's afraid that admitting that fact will change the dynamics of the RinJinBu for the worse.
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Old 2013-03-25, 11:56   Link #147
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Yeah, Kodaka is terrified of change. He's perfectly happy with the current situation so naturally, he wants it to last for as long as possible. He knows they are already friends. However, admitting they are friends and saying it out loud would change the dynamics of the group in either good or bad, but in his mind, he can probably only think of the worst. He's too afraid to take this risk.

Sena's confession forced him into a corner. No matter what he does, their relationship will change. He ran away for now but he won't be able to do that forever. Even if he could, he'd lose the club too, and that's the worst outcome for him. He can't avoid change this time. It will be interesting to see how he will face this situation.
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Old 2013-03-25, 12:48   Link #148
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He has to admit it, basically.
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Old 2013-03-25, 15:44   Link #149
Haak
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
It was the opposite. Kodaka requested that Sena should not tell Yozora anything about the engagement "There is no need to tell her. It doesn't involve her.".
Well it was Sena that first raised the issue which is the main thing. Plus she did feel the need to draw Kodaka away privately which heavily suggests she didn't want Yozora finding out. So she obviously does care about Yozora's feelings.

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Sena acts like a condescending bitch towards everyone except Kobato and Kodaka, not sure about Yozora. So I view Yozora's verbal/physical "beatdown" as something that makes sense.
So you're one of those that thinks she deserves it? Yeah, sorry but I've rarely ever felt the abuse was proportionate and there are times when she doesn't even provoke anything and still gets abuse. Those are the most egregious ones to me.

In any case that was just an example to illustrate a point. You don't have to agree with it: It's the bigger point I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
P.S. Rika is too badass to get bossed around by Sena and there are omitted points that didn't make it to the anime where Sena insults/shows disrespect/doesn't give a damm about Maria and Yukimura.
I'll decidedly not take your word for it. It doesn't really matter anyway: This is the anime thread, not the light novel thread.
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Last edited by Haak; 2013-03-25 at 15:55.
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Old 2013-03-25, 17:59   Link #150
potchip
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Well it was Sena that first raised the issue which is the main thing. Plus she did feel the need to draw Kodaka away privately which heavily suggests she didn't want Yozora finding out. So she obviously does care about Yozora's feelings.
This a part where it's confusing as to whether Sena is really aware. On one side I expect her to call out a battle royale for Kodaka's hand if she's aware of Yozora's feelings - her personality dictates she can't wait for Yozora beating around the bush and would prefer a straight up and fast settlement. The duality of her noble intention, and at the same time unfair due-process is a constant theme. An analogy is a Knight(Sena) challenges an Scholar(Yozora) in honorable combat. The knight is simply not aware her method is inheritly disadvantageous for the other party and only doing so for honor. Doesn't mean the other party and other observers would think the same however. This is also what's happening for Kodaka - Sena is not aware putting him on the spot is a bad idea, both for him and herself.

Like I've mentioned before about intent and outcome - in Sena's case, is good intention/eagerness/lack of awareness enough excuse for the outcomes? So is she deserving of her current predicament? (Funnily enough, despite what she says, she probably doesn't care all that much about her bad relations with her peers, at an emotional level. I think her reason to join the club is nothing more than the perfectionist seeking perfection and annoyed at not getting her way, rather than specific yearning for friendship. Even now she's still struggling with the emotions of a real budding friendship with Yozora)

But discussing the engagement thing in private is surprisingly cluey for Sena as a character. Need to go and check if it was actually Sena who initiated it or not.
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Old 2013-03-25, 19:16   Link #151
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I think her reason to join the club is nothing more than the perfectionist seeking perfection and annoyed at not getting her way, rather than specific yearning for friendship. Even now she's still struggling with the emotions of a real budding friendship with Yozora
I don't think that Sena is interested in befriending Yozora. She just thinks about how she can avoid conflicts with her, just like Kodaka does it the whole time. After all he told Sena that she should not rely on those things of the past.

He is able to tell what he thinks to Sena while he avoids telling those things (their past friendship doesn't matter) to Yozora. From Kodaka's point of view Sena is a great help because she has the guts to face Yozora while he is to scared to do that himself.
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Old 2013-03-25, 21:47   Link #152
finalfury
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Well it was Sena that first raised the issue which is the main thing. Plus she did feel the need to draw Kodaka away privately which heavily suggests she didn't want Yozora finding out. So she obviously does care about Yozora's feelings.



So you're one of those that thinks she deserves it? Yeah, sorry but I've rarely ever felt the abuse was proportionate and there are times when she doesn't even provoke anything and still gets abuse. Those are the most egregious ones to me.

In any case that was just an example to illustrate a point. You don't have to agree with it: It's the bigger point I'm talking about.



I'll decidedly not take your word for it. It doesn't really matter anyway: This is the anime thread, not the light novel thread.
I said that it makes sense, not something that she deserves. After the episode in season 1 at the pool where she kept on insulting the guys to the point where they were going to go violent on her tells me that she needs to learn some restraint. Does she deserve all the abuse that has happened, NO. Does she absolutely need counseling, YES. As does every character in the club for that matter.
You don't have to take my word for it. It was mostly there just cause I felt like it hence Rika is badass.
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Old 2013-03-25, 22:42   Link #153
ellessarr
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ok here, thanks to rika awesomeness this is how we start to know more about "kodaka" issues
Spoiler:


kobato is just a mirror for kodaka she suffer from the same problem of him: being unable to handle with be "sociable", just rewatch episode, 10 13:30 to 15:20 and see the final of the same episode then rewatch episode 11 and and each piece of the puzzle will fit Kodaka revealing the problem until then had been kept hidden.

kodaka true want friends but he can't true handly with then, the only way he can have friend is the way who he keeping using by keep hiding from the girls(rika is the one who find about this) about their already being friends, it's just not the marriage or confession his issues but the whole picture.

kodaka make clear who he want a girlfriend but like the friend he can't handly, another note if indeed kodaka dont want girlfriend or marriage why he not yet asked to pegasus to cancel the marriage contract between pegasus and his father, he just keep curling the answer he never true goes to pegasus and ask to cancel this since he learned about.
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Old 2013-03-26, 08:48   Link #154
holyman282
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
ok here, thanks to rika awesomeness this is how we start to know more about "kodaka" issues
Spoiler:


kobato is just a mirror for kodaka she suffer from the same problem of him: being unable to handle with be "sociable", just rewatch episode, 10 13:30 to 15:20 and see the final of the same episode then rewatch episode 11 and and each piece of the puzzle will fit Kodaka revealing the problem until then had been kept hidden.

kodaka true want friends but he can't true handly with then, the only way he can have friend is the way who he keeping using by keep hiding from the girls(rika is the one who find about this) about their already being friends, it's just not the marriage or confession his issues but the whole picture.

kodaka make clear who he want a girlfriend but like the friend he can't handly, another note if indeed kodaka dont want girlfriend or marriage why he not yet asked to pegasus to cancel the marriage contract between pegasus and his father, he just keep curling the answer he never true goes to pegasus and ask to cancel this since he learned about.
I can't understand what you just wrote..... I can however postulate through the screen shot that you're trying to say that he suffers the same symptoms as Kobato?

You also wrote that Kodaka "make clear who he want a girlfriend" are you trying to say that it's obvious who Kodaka wants as a girlfriend? I haven't seen or read in the novel any hints that he favors any girl above other so could you please clarify?

I'm guessing that english isn't your native language and I'm not trying to insult that. I just want to understand a bit better about what you wrote cause some parts interest me and I'm not sure if its intentional or a result of bad grammar
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Old 2013-03-26, 09:03   Link #155
memeguy
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
I don't think that Sena is interested in befriending Yozora. She just thinks about how she can avoid conflicts with her, just like Kodaka does it the whole time. After all he told Sena that she should not rely on those things of the past.

He is able to tell what he thinks to Sena while he avoids telling those things (their past friendship doesn't matter) to Yozora. From Kodaka's point of view Sena is a great help because she has the guts to face Yozora while he is to scared to do that himself.
I used to think this too, that Sena was not interested in a friendship with Yozora, but now I'm not so sure. Sena indirectly admits respect for Yozora through her comment about Aoi Yusa that "I don't care about anyone in my way who I can just get rid of with power. Anyone worth facing wouldn't care about that and still take me on". Note Yozora's subtle smile after that comment. Maybe at this stage she still superficially thinks of Yozora as an opponent, but I suspect their relationship may mirror the changing relationship between Kobato and Maria.

Another interesting side comment this episode was by Kodaka as he was leaving Rika in the nurse's office, that "I only got to talk to you about stupid stuff like this because of the Neighbors Club, right?". I think this is a recognition of how precious the RinJinBu is to him and what he is trying to protect.
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Old 2013-03-26, 09:14   Link #156
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by holyman282 View Post
I can't understand what you just wrote..... I can however postulate through the screen shot that you're trying to say that he suffers the same symptoms as Kobato?

You also wrote that Kodaka "make clear who he want a girlfriend" are you trying to say that it's obvious who Kodaka wants as a girlfriend? I haven't seen or read in the novel any hints that he favors any girl above other so could you please clarify?

I'm guessing that english isn't your native language and I'm not trying to insult that. I just want to understand a bit better about what you wrote cause some parts interest me and I'm not sure if its intentional or a result of bad grammar
well i'm justing point who kodaka have bif issues like any other member of the club and him not only want friends but also want girlfriends, i'm not defending any particular girl, it's just some peoples here keep saying who "kodaka" dont have any fault about what is happen who he doing the "right thing" all the fault is only on the girls because he is being "normal" while is obvious who he not "normal" and have poblems like any of the girls and what is happen is also his fault for not being honest with the girls because he dont want to loose his "safe zone" with friends(who only him is aknowledge who their are friends) and girls in love with him without him need to choose any or answer to any, a total selfish, because for me he is playing with the girls feelings, not like he doing this to being evil, but because of his issues to not being able to accept a "sociable life".

rika on this season keep being pure awesomeness, not only playing the moe&pervert but being genius and helping us to learn more about the club throught her eyes, like kodaka faking the dense, she is really a genius too bad who mine preferred girl still being sena not just because of her hot look but also her freaking side specially when kobato appear i aways laught hard watching sena prancts.

Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-03-26 at 09:56.
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Old 2013-03-26, 16:21   Link #157
Haak
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Originally Posted by potchip View Post
This a part where it's confusing as to whether Sena is really aware. On one side I expect her to call out a battle royale for Kodaka's hand if she's aware of Yozora's feelings - her personality dictates she can't wait for Yozora beating around the bush and would prefer a straight up and fast settlement.
There shouldn't be any confusion regardless of what anyone thinks her personality suggests. Sena very pointedly brought Kodaka away from Yozora to speak to him about the engagement issue and expressed concern of the possibility of what it would mean to Yozora if she found out. Not only that, but Sena also got angry when Yozora became dejected and told her to snap out of it. Why would she get angry if she's not aware of what it means to Yozora?

This isn't the first time Sena's has shown she's aware of the situation. When Kodaka and Sena were getting pa present for Kobato they took a break and talked in the cafe and Sena specifically said she didn't want to lose to Yozora. The subject was about what Sena thought about Kodaka and Yozora being childhood friends. And just before that Sena was asking what Kodaka thought about the other girls. And just before that Sena talked about how she understands how "girls can take a long time to decide on things": The context is pretty damn clear. She knows she's in a competition with Yozora, Rika and even freaking Yukimura over Kodaka's feelings.

Quote:
The duality of her noble intention, and at the same time unfair due-process is a constant theme. An analogy is a Knight(Sena) challenges an Scholar(Yozora) in honorable combat. The knight is simply not aware her method is inheritly disadvantageous for the other party and only doing so for honor. Doesn't mean the other party and other observers would think the same however. This is also what's happening for Kodaka - Sena is not aware putting him on the spot is a bad idea, both for him and herself.
I don't recall any of that ever being a theme. What exactly is that based on?

Because in all honestly I got the exact opposite interpretation from that scene. The interpretation i got was that they were trying to portray Sena's confession as something positive that shows how far she's come. The reason for this is obvious. The rest of the episode previously went out of it's way to show the best of Rika and Yozora and so followed that off with Sena. Why? It's a narrative cue to put it in direct contrast to Kodaka's evasion which the story portrays as a character regression. Everybody's growing up except him: That was the meta concept I was getting. Portraying Sena's confession as a character flaw would undermine that.

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Like I've mentioned before about intent and outcome - in Sena's case, is good intention/eagerness/lack of awareness enough excuse for the outcomes? So is she deserving of her current predicament? (Funnily enough, despite what she says, she probably doesn't care all that much about her bad relations with her peers, at an emotional level. I think her reason to join the club is nothing more than the perfectionist seeking perfection and annoyed at not getting her way, rather than specific yearning for friendship. Even now she's still struggling with the emotions of a real budding friendship with Yozora)
Can I ask why you think that? The scene in the very first episode of the first season makes it clear what Sena's intentions are. She said "I saw that poster too! (referring to the poster that Yozora specifically said that only people who truly desire friends would see) I just want friends too!". I don't think the story said that for shits and giggles, you know. The story was clearly portraying it as a moment of truth for Sena. Kodaka even then later clarified that it would be natural for her to feel alienated and desire true friends in the scene right after that.

This isn't just clear from a character point of view but from a narrative one. All the members have a genuine desire for friendship (with perhaps the sole exception of Yukimura who's character role has that leeway since she's only ever been used as a comedic device thus far). It makes no sense to portray one of the characters as having cynical motivation. That would inherently undermine the underlying theme of the story when they're all having fun and acting like genuine friends with one another, which the story always portrays as genuine. For example, take the ending of the OVA (episode 13) when Yozora caps it off by reminding everyone of the core ideal of the club "To make friends" and how everyone else is already smiling in approval before she even says it. Having one character in the group who's not there for that reason (and for cynical reasons to boot) would undermine that message completely.

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Originally Posted by finalfury View Post
I said that it makes sense, not something that she deserves. After the episode in season 1 at the pool where she kept on insulting the guys to the point where they were going to go violent on her tells me that she needs to learn some restraint. Does she deserve all the abuse that has happened, NO. Does she absolutely need counseling, YES. As does every character in the club for that matter. .
Those two are entirely different things. Of course there's room for improvement but abuse, especially physical abuse is not the way to go about it if it's not deserved. It can even be counter-productive.
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Old 2013-03-26, 18:09   Link #158
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Those two are entirely different things. Of course there's room for improvement but abuse, especially physical abuse is not the way to go about it if it's not deserved. It can even be counter-productive.
They were both blatantly obvious to the point of irritation even if they are both entirely different. The definition of what constitutes abuse differs from one person to another so I don't judge abuse per say, more so on the person's reaction to abuse.
Koe no Katachi is a good example of an abusive case.
Can't believe I forgot this but Yuuno Arashiko from MM! is a very good example of a victim due to abuse.
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Old 2013-03-26, 20:17   Link #159
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
well i'm justing point who kodaka have bif issues like any other member of the club and him not only want friends but also want girlfriends
You don't have significant proof to defend this, that's the point. This is how the shipping wars start, and what others are saying is that there is no shipping battle because Kodaka hasn't suggested or shown anything that lets the viewer on that he wants a relationship. He even flat out states he doesn't want one. Just because viewers want him to choose doesn't mean he wants to.

And no one is saying Kodaka doesn't have issues. The pro-Kodaka side argument is that Kodaka's issues are justifiable and people can relate. You are on the side that doesn't relate and blames him for certain things. This is why both sides are debating. You feel Kodaka is acting wrong, I don't. You also feel what Rika did was the right thing while I feel that while it wasn't wrong, it added flames to a fire that doesn't help anyone right now..

I saw a comment on Random Curiosity about this episode, and pretty much agree with the overall message completely:

Quote:
As far as Kodaka not being willing to create bonds with anyone, I disagree. He has created bonds with the group, but he is terribly afraid of upsetting the status quo by stating the obvious. What if the others reject it? Better half a loaf than none. It might be easy to criticize him for being a wuss but he’s got no experience in how to deal with anything like this. How would he deal with being friends with two people that hate each other (or think they do)? He doesn’t have a clue.

And what about Rika? She’s been pushing Kodaka to step up and admit that they all are friends but she won’t do it herself? Essentially, she is admitting that Kodaka is center of the group and every one of the girls are focused on him and not on each other. Harem anyone? Yozora (and maybe Yukimura) may be the only one who isn’t romantically attracted to him (and that has a low probability even if she denies it. The look of terror on her face when Sena proposed tells a lot).
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Old 2013-03-26, 21:20   Link #160
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You don't have significant proof to defend this, that's the point. This is how the shipping wars start, and what others are saying is that there is no shipping battle because Kodaka hasn't suggested or shown anything that lets the viewer on that he wants a relationship. He even flat out states he doesn't want one. Just because viewers want him to choose doesn't mean he wants to.

And no one is saying Kodaka doesn't have issues. The pro-Kodaka side argument is that Kodaka's issues are justifiable and people can relate. You are on the side that doesn't relate and blames him for certain things. This is why both sides are debating. You feel Kodaka is acting wrong, I don't. You also feel what Rika did was the right thing while I feel that while it wasn't wrong, it added flames to a fire that doesn't help anyone right now..

I saw a comment on Random Curiosity about this episode, and pretty much agree with the overall message completely:
Spoiler:

have another moment where kodaka showed he want a girlfriend but i dont remember the episode or if was first or second season need to rewatch to find that was the only who i remember the source.

i'm not "only" blame him i blame him for being coward with the girls and the girls to being weirds but I admired both Sena and rika finally begin to show that they are progressing, and progressing more than others, while kodaka finally showed who he is the only with less progression, less even than yozora because at last yozora like all the others girls is trying to be sincere with themselfs while he still hinding in his shell of "fake dense" and looks like dont want to leave.

here i'm using anime speechs to prove my point, i'm aways use what i see/read in the speechs to base mine theories not just my thoughts, do the same show me speechs where you theory may have a base(to counter my argument) and where kodaka is saying who he dont want a girlfriend.

for now i'm not interested in a shipwar even if i liked more sena, first i need see kodaka solve his issues to being unsociable(can't stand about have true friends and girlfriends) before i can start mine own girl ship, for now in this "state" kodaka don't deserves any girl for me until he solve the problem he diserves being alone(and dont have friends because he gonna run from then).

Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-03-26 at 21:41.
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