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Old 2013-03-30, 17:57   Link #3141
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
AMF is mostly a nuisance
If you're well trained to combat its effects. If not you're helpless once you're in range. And even then fighting in an AMF environment is far more draining than normal.
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:45   Link #3142
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Wouldn't AMF just nibble at a Barrier Jacket until it came apart, rather than unraveling it instantly?
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:48   Link #3143
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AMF isn't an anti-magic field per se. Rather what it does is makes it harder for mana to "link" properly. It can't have an effect on already "linked" mana, which is why spells still work.

Think of it like interference. It makes it difficult to get mana to link in the first place within it, but mana linked outside of it, or mana that is already linked, isn't effected by the AMF.

That is the key difference between AMF and the Zero Effect that Eclipse has. The Zero Effect doesn't make it difficult for mana to link, it instead force-ably breaks the links. This is generally why magical spells and defenses do little against the Zero Effect as it breaks down the spells at the basic level.
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:53   Link #3144
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No, we see the AMF field negating spells already cast outside and blocking magic bullets.
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:53   Link #3145
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AMF - Anti-Magiclink Field
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Old 2013-03-30, 19:56   Link #3146
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
AMF isn't an anti-magic field per se. Rather what it does is makes it harder for mana to "link" properly. It can't have an effect on already "linked" mana, which is why spells still work.
But the Variable Bullet spell is explicitly stated to cover a bullet with a barrier so that the barrier is eaten up by the AMF first, giving the bullet time to strike.

So yes, AMF unravels linked mana.
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:34   Link #3147
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But the Variable Bullet spell is explicitly stated to cover a bullet with a barrier so that the barrier is eaten up by the AMF first, giving the bullet time to strike.

So yes, AMF unravels linked mana.
Depends on if the mana is already linked. From my understanding, AMF cannot unravel links - this is why barrier jackets don't get dispelled inside an AMF, as it can't break down the links.

But the Zero Effect is why a barrier jacket does absolutely nothing to protect you from a Divider, as it cuts through the links effectively nullifying the armor.
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Old 2013-03-30, 21:57   Link #3148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Depends on if the mana is already linked. From my understanding, AMF cannot unravel links - this is why barrier jackets don't get dispelled inside an AMF, as it can't break down the links.

But the Zero Effect is why a barrier jacket does absolutely nothing to protect you from a Divider, as it cuts through the links effectively nullifying the armor.
First training episode in StrikerS...

Wing Road fell apart when it ran into an AMF.

The manga, Nanoha fired some shots at a Gadget Drone, it failed to hit the Drones, she then did "rocks fall, everyone dies" on the drones.
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Old 2013-03-30, 22:16   Link #3149
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
First training episode in StrikerS...

Wing Road fell apart when it ran into an AMF.

The manga, Nanoha fired some shots at a Gadget Drone, it failed to hit the Drones, she then did "rocks fall, everyone dies" on the drones.
Well AMF makes linking mana hard, meaning the spell will fail/fall apart if the links are not properly reinforced before entering AMF. I don't think it's akin to ZE which is BREAKING them, AMF makes them hard to link.

I guess it's sort of like trying to get something to stick to something not... sticky. That's what AMF does. It makes the links of mana not want to stick to one another unless you try a lot harder, and if you don't, it makes your spells fall apart.
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Old 2013-03-31, 00:59   Link #3150
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
First training episode in StrikerS...

Wing Road fell apart when it ran into an AMF.

The manga, Nanoha fired some shots at a Gadget Drone, it failed to hit the Drones, she then did "rocks fall, everyone dies" on the drones.
Yeah that's the point, when they were untrained they got surprised their spells got dispelled under AMF but latter Subaru was using Wing Road like nobody's bussines and Nanoha was blowing up Gadget Drones with her Axel Shooter all over the place xDU
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Old 2013-03-31, 08:07   Link #3151
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Therefore, wouldn't Barrier Jackets remain intact within an AMF, for at least as long as it takes for them to fall apart?

Magic bullets aren't designed for durability; they're meant to fall apart when they strike. Barrier Jackets are built for toughness.

Especially for mages who have undergone AMF-condition training, I imagine that even "total AMF conditions" would take at least a little while to unravel an existing Barrier Jacket. Especially when that jacket isn't taking any damage from attacks.
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Old 2013-03-31, 10:45   Link #3152
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Therefore, wouldn't Barrier Jackets remain intact within an AMF, for at least as long as it takes for them to fall apart?

Magic bullets aren't designed for durability; they're meant to fall apart when they strike. Barrier Jackets are built for toughness.

Especially for mages who have undergone AMF-condition training, I imagine that even "total AMF conditions" would take at least a little while to unravel an existing Barrier Jacket. Especially when that jacket isn't taking any damage from attacks.
I don't think so given a barrier jacket is some very tightly linked magic. You probably can't really make mana link any better then that.

Spells usually just fall apart because you don't need to link them THAT hard in normal conditions - it just has to stay linked long enough to hit your target, which is usually not any longer then a minute.
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Old 2013-03-31, 15:47   Link #3153
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Well that actually could make some sense. If the magic that links the energy of the Barrier Jacket is so tight that it can’t be divided, then yes the AMF should not make it go but that will mean it will be impossible to pierce with other magic methods. I mean if the links are that hard how could a spell pierce the Barrier Jacket? Or how could you cut through it so easily? And yet we see Barrier Jackets torn by attacks and hits.
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Old 2013-03-31, 15:58   Link #3154
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AMF doesn't inflict physical or magical damage. It unlinks mana.

But barrier jackets are meant to resist physical and magical damage rather than being unlinked. It could be possible that it coincidentally happens to resist one detrimental effect more than the ones it was meant to resist, but it would be odd.

Also, wouldn't Binds be made just as durable as jackets? If jackets are tough enough to resist unlinking, what about Ring Bind, Restrick Lock and Chain Bind?
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Old 2013-03-31, 16:05   Link #3155
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No, those are just magic effects and they can be break using magic. Also breaking the Barrier Jacket isn’t unlinking the magic? Because is now broken and no longer connected.
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Old 2013-03-31, 16:14   Link #3156
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It's a different kind of breaking. Think of it as the difference between cutting a hole in a shirt or unraveling it thread by thread.
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Old 2013-03-31, 16:17   Link #3157
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But when it comes down to it there is no real difference. One is a small scale and other in a large scale. Point being the thing can’t hold together because is being affected by external forces. I still say the Barrier Jackets are not so tight together they can’t be deconstruct by the AMF. I mean that will explain why they aren’t but that will raise new problems.
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Old 2013-03-31, 16:39   Link #3158
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Unless it's not breaking in the case of physical and magical damage, but deliberate ablation, or even some kind of keyed reaction.

So when afflicted by AMF, it has to unravel it piece by piece against bonds which are tightly linked.

but the reason those bonds are tightly linked is to store up large amounts of energy, such that when struck by a physical or magical blow, the bonds explosively de-link and oppose the attack actively, Explosive Reactive Armour Fashion.

We know that this kind of behaviour can be triggered deliberately on a large scale because of Nanoha's 'Reactor Purge'-ing her Barrier Jacket in A's; if it behaves like this all the time, but on a smaller level, then the tight linking of bonds is not for resistance purpose, but to store a lot of energy in each bond to oppose attacks with when ablatively de-linking; the resistance to AMF effects would then be a happy bonus;

The net effect of that though, is that Zero Eclipse would have no more effect on a Barrier Jacket than any normal physical/magical attack would, since unlinking the bonds involved would cause the Jacket to Ablatively purge just as it would for a normal attack, but induced from outside.

Guess the theory needs more work to account for Zero Eclipse; Damned Huckebein making things complicated...
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Old 2013-03-31, 18:09   Link #3159
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Yeah, that's the problem if the clothes were nothing but magic, then the instant that Cypha cut into Signum, Signum should have had no clothes and/or been back in civilian clothes instantly.

Not to mention Touma's "Divide Zero Eclipse" didn't undo any Barrier Jackets or Knight Outfits, even though he temporarily killed everyone.
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Old 2013-03-31, 19:00   Link #3160
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Well there is not reall excuse because he stoped hearts and turn down machines. So another plothole for Force.
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