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Old 2013-04-02, 06:17   Link #3681
synaesthetic
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Yeah, see, all those DLC weapons and stuff you get from the multiplayer? The SP wasn't balanced with those in mind.
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Old 2013-04-02, 08:10   Link #3682
Eragon
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Citadel DLC can be summed up in three words - Wrex and Tali (assuming you get the conversation with Wrex at the bar. THAT is the most hilarious conversation I have ever heard in a game. Although, a drunk Tali comes close)

The mission was cheesy - wasn't expecting anything much either way. So, no disappointments there. I was more looking forward to the character interaction and this DLC does an amazing job of that.

I would suggest playing it after completing the main game. Since, as was mentioned, it is in very stark contrast to the theme of the main plot. That aside, I have to say, the DLC content for ME-3 is pretty good and meaningful, I suppose.

One question though - How the hell does Barla Von have the highest score in Armax Arena till you beat it?
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Old 2013-04-02, 17:46   Link #3683
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Barla Von, agent of the shadow broker...he probably has information on how the point scoring works, so the spawn randomizer isn't so random for him...alternatively, he might be the original BIOTIC GOD before Niftu Cal was one.
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Old 2013-04-02, 19:01   Link #3684
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So Manage to have ti e to play this along with all DLC, currently after Geth-Quarian conflict

few notes

- Javik pretty much best squad mates ever
- It have many awesome moment like Karlos vs Reaper and Thane vs Kai Leng
- At same time it contain many sad/heartwarming momentRIP Thane and Mordin T.T
- Udina betrayal is kinda surprised me.

- Omega DLC is longer than i expected. for good and bad. RIP Female Turian T.T
- Leviathan DLC is Ok-ish. i kinda like the puzzle and story behind it

- The Geth and Quarian conflict is probably the best part. especially when you look at the geth side. the history behind it, how themsleve want to achive peace. the ending is kinda well done with final fight againts reaper and how i mange to achieve peace between them. still RIP Legion T.T

I kept Citadel for last

so yeah so far so good. I kinda like that I can see so many familiar face over course the game
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Old 2013-04-02, 20:31   Link #3685
Wild Goose
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"Creator Megara, what is your status. Creator Megara?"

T__T

Also, I suspect Barla Von got his high scores with much abuse of Prox Mine, Recon Mine, and Shield Recharge.
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Old 2013-04-03, 21:10   Link #3686
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Wont comment in detail about the ending since it been discussed to death already but i just say that synthesis is kinda "good" ending (at same time kinda dont make sense but oh well).

overall it's one hell of experienced. Shepard journey is on the most epic story in history of videogame. i dont see how the ending ruin the game. it certainly GOTY meterial.

oh and Citadel DLC is CRAAZZZZYYYY!!!!!!!
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Old 2013-04-04, 13:51   Link #3687
synaesthetic
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Synthesis is worst ending, even worse than Destroy.

Congratulations, you just took self-determination away from every living thing in the galaxy! Nice job breaking it, hero!

Control is best ending.
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Old 2013-04-04, 14:02   Link #3688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Synthesis is worst ending, even worse than Destroy.

Congratulations, you just took self-determination away from every living thing in the galaxy! Nice job breaking it, hero!

Control is best ending.
If you wanted eternal peace, that isn't the worst.

But I agreed that Control is the best one
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Old 2013-04-04, 14:14   Link #3689
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On other note

Spoiler for romance:


Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Control is best ending.
Kinda agree to some extent. I think the problem with Cerberus idea is that he use reaper for human only.

but at the end I dont really care about the ending (since i already know before hand) I was like "screw it, let me finish this game!" and chose which one is the more "neutral"
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Old 2013-04-04, 14:15   Link #3690
Eragon
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Yep, control is the most logical course of action. Besides, you become a GOD, more or less - anyone who controls the Reapers is a pretty badass entity in my opinion. Except for blue-kid with terrible logic.
.
.
.
.
Why that kid? Why not someone or something else? Like, I don't know, Mikey Mouse or something. Seriously, the appearance of that AI just makes his explanation sound even more ridiculous.
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Old 2013-04-05, 00:36   Link #3691
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Paragon Control ending implies that Shepard works for the betterment of the entire galaxy. The Renegade Control implies that Shepard crushes anyone who hurts her friends or loved ones and stands against her desires.

None of them have the racist overtones that Renegade choices in ME1 had, though.
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Old 2013-04-05, 06:39   Link #3692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Synthesis is worst ending, even worse than Destroy.

Congratulations, you just took self-determination away from every living thing in the galaxy! Nice job breaking it, hero!

Control is best ending.
So the Control ending is better because you take self-determination away from the Reapers? And in effect, become what the Reapers were?

I'm sorry, but in my opinion that is a crock of shit.

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." By placing the power of the Reapers into Shepard's hands, you've essentially traded one set of evil overlords for someone who now has no checks upon him (I'm assuming Shepard is male, as that's how I rolled the last year-odd throughout 3 games), who commands the entire Reaper fleet. This is dangerous. There is a very good reason no single person should have that much power: the temptation to use it.

Yes, Shep is more or less a hero. Are you willing to trust he's always going to be that way?

The second issue is that every single person we've seen near Reapers eventually is Indoctrinated. You now want Shepard to control the Reapers. Indoctrination doesn't even need the Reapers to be alive, and it still happens to people. What's there to say that Shepard, who is now a Reaper, will remain immune to the allure of Indoctrination?

These issues aside, the other reason I went for Destroy is for the same reason I chose to kill the Heretics in Legion: A House Divided: brainwashing people is wrong. Doesn't matter if it's to geth. Doesn't matter if it's to Reapers. Doesn't matter if it's to batarians, asari, turians, or humans. If our stand is that it is wrong to brainwash people, then likewise it is wrong to brainwash the Heretic Geth and the Reapers, and therefore the only option left - an admittedly cruel mercy - is to kill them.

Because if we go the brainwashing route, then we take our first steps to becoming the Reapers, and then where do we draw the line? Where do we stop? When do we stop sliding down the slippery slope? The Heretics? The Reapers? The batarians? Our enemies? And then one day, we wake up, and realise that we are now the true inheritors of the will of the Reapers.

Synthesis has its problems. So does Destroy. But Destroy is the only option that allows us to keep to some fraction of our principles, rejecting the subtle offer of the Reapers to inherit their will. And then, after destroying the Reapers, John Shepard knelt and wept bitter tears of regret, anger, and loathing, as the geth and EDI died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Yep, control is the most logical course of action. Besides, you become a GOD, more or less - anyone who controls the Reapers is a pretty badass entity in my opinion.
As I note above, you can be a badass while at the same time be a monster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Paragon Control ending implies that Shepard works for the betterment of the entire galaxy. The Renegade Control implies that Shepard crushes anyone who hurts her friends or loved ones and stands against her desires.

None of them have the racist overtones that Renegade choices in ME1 had, though.
Again, I will repeat that this is far too much power in the hands of a single person.

= = = = =

Having said all the above, I have just started Citadel, after some lengthy issues with payment for goods and services rendered, and after I respecced my Soldier Shep to come closer to how the N7 Destroyer is. Also, loading Armor Piercing Ammo as my bonus power. Yep, it's so ketara I'm an MP player (actually, at this point, it seems that most people still playing ME3, prior to Citadel and the other SP DLC, were playing for MP). And it is a blast. Love this.

I have a personal goal of bringing my N7 Special Ops team's War Asset Rating to 9000 and above, which means I have another... 85 promotions to go. Guess it's time to take a page outta Asuna's book and become a levelling monster.
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Old 2013-04-05, 06:58   Link #3693
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Synthesis has its problems. So does Destroy. But Destroy is the only option that allows us to keep to some fraction of our principles, rejecting the subtle offer of the Reapers to inherit their will. And then, after destroying the Reapers, John Shepard knelt and wept bitter tears of regret, anger, and loathing, as the geth and EDI died.
Indeed. It is not about killing Reapers, but proving them wrong.

I just wish Destroy wouldn't involve killing all Geth. That's why the only choice left to me was shooting the Star Child/EA representative.
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Old 2013-04-05, 07:14   Link #3694
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Indeed. It is not about killing Reapers, but proving them wrong.

I just wish Destroy wouldn't involve killing all Geth. That's why the only choice left to me was shooting the Star Child/EA representative.
For me, I'm sympathetic to the geth, but there's the whole 1 = unique, millions = abstract problem. And then I remember Legion. My squadmate. My friend. My comrade. And I think upon his sacrifice, and then I feel like an utter shit for consigning the geth to death.

I recall EDI, how she grew throughout the last 2 games, how she did her best to grow beyond what she was, to become something unique and special.

And I harden my heart, blink my eyes, carefully sight on my target-

-and I squeeze the trigger, and curse the Reapers and myself.

* * * * *

Also, Anderson is such a bro, listening to his voice logs. And somehow, I kinda feel sad that he and Kahlee are never going to settle down at their place on the Citadel.

Here's to you, Admiral.
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Old 2013-04-05, 09:44   Link #3695
Eragon
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I'm certain that after playing Shepard for 3 games, people would rather be trusting of him. I just don't see the reason for choosing Destroy. I mean you are dooming an entire race for what? Your ideals? That's even worse a reason than the Salarians had for unleashing the Genophage. And that didn't kill the Krogans. I just find that choice utterly selfish (yeah, the previous word was offensive. Sorry about that.)

The existence of the blue-kid also undermines the independence of the Reapers which Sovereign so arrogantly flaunted. So, I wouldn't put much faith in Shepard going over to the "dark-side". Obviously, its upto the player to decide whether he puts faith in his/her Shepard's conviction to remain the ever vigilant guardian of the Galaxy's races.

And, Shepard already had more power than anybody else in the game. She(my Shepard) held the fate of the Krogan in her hands, was a backstab away from destroying the Geth or a moment of silence away from dooming the Quarians. I mean, how much more powerful can you get? If she can remain true to her convictions even in those situations then I don't think she will be getting indoctrinated anytime soon.
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Old 2013-04-05, 11:38   Link #3696
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I'm going to have to break this down into several sections:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
I'm certain that after playing Shepard for 3 games, people would rather be trusting of him. I just don't see the reason for choosing Destroy. I mean you are dooming an entire race for what? Your ideals? That's even worse a reason than the Salarians had for unleashing the Genophage. And that didn't kill the Krogans. I just find it utterly stupid.
The thing is, what you're certain of - that people would be rather trusting of Shepard - isn't entirely borne out by the games. Note that while Hackett and Anderson trust in Shepard, as does Vega, and a fair number of Alliance rank and file, Alliance leadership is wary of him. Note the trials, et all, and how they weren't entirely convinced about the reapers. Admittedly this is a moot point, however, as immediately after the prologue Alliance leadership is essentially Anderson, leading the Resistance on Earth, and Hackett, who's leading Fifth Fleet and whatever survivors he's scooped up.

I should also note that while Shepard is trusted to a degree with saving the galaxy, this is a different matter. Before, he was one man with a badass crew and a great ship, who was an unholy terror on the battlefield - but he was still one man and he was still subordinate to the authority of the Council and the Alliance.

You now have taken that man, and have given him control of the most powerful force the galaxy has ever seen.

How sure are you that he will resist the temptations? Before he was one man commanding a frigate; now he is in control of a powerful fleet of eldritch abominations. That kind of power can go to a man's head. To take a real world example, Hosni Mubarak had good intentions at the start... and the power went to his head and he became a dictator in all but name.

I am not casting aspersions onto Shepard's strength of character, but these are valid questions that need to be raised. And a Shepard honest enough to look himself in the mirror would ask these questions.

As for ideals, I'm not sacrificing the geth for my ideals. I'm simply following my principles when I killed the Heretic geth: That both brainwashing and killing are morally wrong, and that as a serving military officer, the lesser of the two evils is to kill my enemies swiftly; as opposed to brainwashing them, raping their minds and souls to twist them into something they are not.

Also, as a practical matter, once a threat is dead, it won't come back to haunt you. Brainwashing can be removed.

If we agree that Reaper Indoctrination - brainwashing - is wrong when used on humans, turian, geth, asari, batarians... then why do we act as though it is acceptable for us to brainwash the Reapers?

Quote:
The existence of the blue-kid also undermines the independence of the Reapers which Sovereign so arrogantly flaunted. So, I wouldn't put much faith in Shepard going over to the "dark-side". Obviously, its upto the player to decide whether he puts faith in his/her Shepard's conviction to remain the ever vigilant guardian of the Galaxy's races.
Undermining the independence of the Reapers? Well, the Catalyst seems to have been manipulating the Reapers, if Leviathan is to be believed (if not outright controlling them). This ties into my other point: if you start using the methods of your enemy, when does it end? When do you draw the line? Yesterday, you brainwashed the Heretic geth. Today, you're brainwashing the Reapers. Who will it be tomorrow? When does it end? When we wake up and realise that we have become the Reapers? That we have turned into that which we fought against?

I will repeat my statement again: If we agree that Reaper Indoctrination - brainwashing - is wrong when used on humans, turian, geth, asari, batarians... then why do we act as though it is acceptable for us to brainwash the Reapers?

The more that Shepard acts like a Reaper, the more Shepard becomes a Reaper.

You place your faith in Shepard remaining pure. I'd note that it's the same hopeful faith the French leadership displayed in WW2, when they identified a pass through the Ardennes that the Germans could exploit, 2 years before the Germans attacked through the same direction. Their plans were more like wishful thinking: "If the Germans penetrate, adequate reinforcements will need to be sent in the future." And then they left it to be, trusting that they could send up additional reinforcements, relying completely on hope.

Guderian showed up, exploited the weakness, and the reinforcements the French believed in never arrived.

Shepard is still a man (or woman, rather), and is not perfect.

Quote:
And, Shepard already had more power than anybody else in the game. She(my Shepard) held the fate of the Krogan in her hands, was a backstab away from destroying the Geth or a moment of silence away from dooming the Quarians. I mean, how much more powerful can you get? If she can remain true to her convictions even in those situations then I don't think she will be getting indoctrinated anytime soon.
Illusive Man. Saren. I will cite these two examples. Both thought they could control the Reapers, but the Reapers were controlling them. I rest my case.

You also don't recognise that the power Shepard held in ME3 was influence, not direct power. Shepard was a single Spectre with a single ship who had to cajole the Council Races and do things to make them happy and agree to help her.

But now Shepard is a Reaper. Shepard has more direct firepower available to her than exists in the entire galaxy. If the asari don't agree, Shepard can merely say "Screw you," and render their military might irrelevant. If the salarians try any tricks, Shepard can turn their worlds into ash. If the turians attempt resistance, Shepard can remove their existence from the galaxy.

Because she now controls the Reaper fleet. At her fingertips are more firepower than anyone has ever held. There are no checks, no balances, no restraints, save the restraints of her own self.

"All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

And this is before we get into Indoctrination, which corrupts your mind and turns you into a thrall of the Reapers. When being next to a dead Reaper is sufficient for Indoctrination, why is it that you thing BEING A GODDAMNED REAPER means Shepard is immune to Indoctrination?

How sure are you that Control isn't another way for the Reapers to win, by suborning Shepard into joining their cause?
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Old 2013-04-05, 12:13   Link #3697
Eragon
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But, the Reapers's function was given to them by the Catalyst. He said as much. He, or rather it, was the reason they were harvesting the organics. That's what I'm trying to say. The Reapers are devoid of purpose without the AI. Indoctrination was merely a tool to serve that function. Without the function the tool is useless.

And I'm honestly missing the point of bringing up brainwashing. I mean, the Reapers were 'given' a purpose in the first place. They do not have a purpose other than harvesting. They were being controlled before. The control ending just puts you in charge. I mean if the Reapers had free will and a purpose of their own, there wouldn't be any need for the existence of the Blue-kid.

The Geth would have destroyed the Quarians. Except for one exception, what the blue-kid says has some truth behind it(I mean it has been around longer than Shepard has). Synthetics and Organics are pretty likely to come to head somewhere down the line and it will mostly end in the defeat of the Organics. So, by destroying all Synthetic life you essentially undo everything that the peace between the Geth and Quarians could have meant for future generations and leave room for that kind of conflict to occur.

In essence the Destroy ending is also based on the hope that a conflict between Organics and Synthetics will not occur in the future. Which, as I said, will result in the Organics losing simply because they are organics and not machines.

Saren and TIM are not Shepard. Yeah, that's it. But, that's the only reason I can come up with.
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Old 2013-04-05, 12:21   Link #3698
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Well said, Wild Goose. That is why even though I know my view is not canon to the creators, I still believe the Conduit was a Reaper trap. That the only reason we can't beat the Reapers was because we were using valuable resources for building a weapon Reapers wanted us to make.

People are free to disagree. I am just saying that's what it looks like on my end.

Quote:
In essence the Destroy ending is also based on the hope that a conflict between Organics and Synthetics will not occur in the future. Which, as I said, will result in the Organics losing simply because they are organics and not machines.
The Destroy ending has NO HOPE. Conflicts would always happen, it doesn't matter what the two sides are made of. To even argue about the Organic vs Synthetic angle is to fall into a straw man argument. There is NO reason for two aliens species to kill each other just because they are different from one another. And if there was going to be a war between machines and organics, who is to say organics didn't start it?

"There might be a war in the future between A and B, so we need to kill B to make sure A can't die out!" is not an argument. Because that assumes race A deserved to win. That somehow race A are victims and not the villains. And we just can't assume that.

Destroy is the least immoral of the three initial endings. But it is still immoral. Because it still assumed that Reapers are justified in wiping out machines, and you are finishing their prime directive for them.
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Old 2013-04-05, 12:37   Link #3699
npal
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I kinda prefer the Synthesis ending.

Destroy means turning the war onto its head and destroying any and all synthetic AI, and, unlike what the Reapers claim they do, you did it without merit, no discrimination, no mercy.

Control sounds like a far better option that Destroy but puts a single human sentience onto a god's throne. Even if Shepard himself remains a benevolent god, every other "lesser" species may not like the idea of a god race dictating whatever, thus insuring that a war will eventually break out one way or another for pretty much the same reason it broke up before.

Synthesis has the benefit of not introducing galaxy-scale wars from the get-go or causing genocide of some form, due to entities having one difference less to fight over.
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Old 2013-04-05, 12:46   Link #3700
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
Synthesis has the benefit of not introducing galaxy-scale wars from the get-go or causing genocide of some form, due to entities having one difference less to fight over.
Yeah, let's solve world war by turning everyone into south-east Asians!

I mean, I am a south-east Asian, so it doesn't affect me at all. And I am sure every other member of the human race don't mind that I just altered the genetic code of them and their children. World peace! Yeah!
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