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Old 2013-04-06, 09:52   Link #841
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And you think an invasion of the western islands wouldn't trigger a military response? SK would just act like nothing happened?
Quite different from "let's end DPRK", which was your basic premise. Stop moving the goal posts to suit yourself.
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Old 2013-04-06, 09:55   Link #842
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And you think an invasion of the western islands wouldn't trigger a military response? SK would just act like nothing happened?
At the very least, there's a possibility that it'd be a more limited military response. Mainly involved in kicking the North Koreans off the islands. That's likely also involve some strikes on the North Korean mainland, but I'm not sure the US/ROK would want to escalate it into an invasion of the North.


Actual attempts to dismantle the North Koreans as a war machine would likely only happen if the North Koreans made a significant military incursion across the DMZ, or did heavy artillery strikes across it.
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Old 2013-04-06, 10:08   Link #843
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Quite different from "let's end DPRK", which was your basic premise. Stop moving the goal posts to suit yourself.
I will take your word that SK will do absolutely nothing unless Seoul is blown up.
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Old 2013-04-06, 10:10   Link #844
Sumeragi
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Sure, change my own words to suit yourself. As expected of someone who does not know what they're talking about and then trying to worm out.
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Old 2013-04-06, 12:50   Link #845
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Sure, change my own words to suit yourself. As expected of someone who does not know what they're talking about and then trying to worm out.
Frankly IMO if NK isn't blowing up Seoul, there is no point invading any islands. But if you think that's what NK wants to do, that's what you think.
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Old 2013-04-06, 13:44   Link #846
mangamuscle
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Quote:
America should be more grateful that we have a relatively non crazy communist overlord next door. Imagine if we had the North koreans as our neighbors!
Yeah, because the cuban missile crisis is not the exact same thing multiplied by several nukes (with dependable long range missiles).

Translation, Fidel was mad as a hater (just like Kim), he just has become frail and fearful as he senses the grim reaper getting near.
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Old 2013-04-06, 14:00   Link #847
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Yeah, because the cuban missile crisis is not the exact same thing multiplied by several nukes (with dependable long range missiles).

Translation, Fidel was mad as a hater (just like Kim), he just has become frail and fearful as he senses the grim reaper getting near.
To be fair, the Cuban Missle Crisis was partially jump started because the United States made ACTUAL attempts to take over the country. We trained a battalion to take over the country. From the Cuban governments perspective, inviting the Soviets with all their wonderful hardware was within their interest.

North Korean warmongering despite the fact that the South Koreans really have no interest in invading them, and despite the fact that the very people they're war mongering against are the ones who they need resources from to survive as a nation. That's far more dysfunctional than Cuba will ever be.



If anything, the real comparison should be how Cuba and North Korea responded to the realities of a post cold war environment where they were cut off from soviet aid. By all discernible measures, Cuba adapted much better than North Korea.
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Old 2013-04-06, 15:28   Link #848
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
If anything, the real comparison should be how Cuba and North Korea responded to the realities of a post cold war environment where they were cut off from soviet aid. By all discernible measures, Cuba adapted much better than North Korea.
Cuba wasn't exactly cut off from Soviet aid, throughout the entire Cold War they had as much assistance with materiel as with KGB's spycatchers.

Though most of Russian assistance went into Vietnam and Afghanistan - I suspect that US actually tripped the wars on both of the other side of the world because they didn't want the giant cigar on their front door to start smoking.
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Old 2013-04-06, 15:58   Link #849
monsta666
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I still maintain that all this rhetoric coming out of North Korea is hot air. I will be very surprised if they actually attack and this incident will eventually blow over. Last year we were talking about the possible war between Iran and Israel then there was the dispute between Japan and China over the Senkaku islands. This is simply the latest flavour with the warmongering spiel.
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Old 2013-04-06, 16:55   Link #850
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Cuba wasn't exactly cut off from Soviet aid, throughout the entire Cold War they had as much assistance with materiel as with KGB's spycatchers.
Oh really? so the fall of the Soviet union didn't cut off the Cubans from Soviet aid? Was there a Phantom Soviet Union that continued to funnel support to Cuba and prevent it from suffering severe economic problems in the 90's?

Wow. I sure was a tool for not realizing something so obvious.
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Old 2013-04-06, 18:21   Link #851
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
.

It be more helpful to understand the truth if you helpfully stated something rather than just dismissing things without putting something in its place.
Don't bother; this is typical bloody Sumeragi as always and I wouldn't be surprised if she also has a clouded judgement on this.

North Korea is the last obstacle before we can reach a form of a long-lasting peace in the region just as Serbia was that obstacle for peace in Europe and for the success of the newly-expanded European Union in the 1990s. My strong belief is that once NK is removed from the chessboard by any means, that region will know peace and prosperity.
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Old 2013-04-06, 18:41   Link #852
Badkarma 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta666 View Post
I still maintain that all this rhetoric coming out of North Korea is hot air. I will be very surprised if they actually attack and this incident will eventually blow over. Last year we were talking about the possible war between Iran and Israel then there was the dispute between Japan and China over the Senkaku islands. This is simply the latest flavour with the warmongering spiel.
Yup, pretty much. Things have already started to quiet down. Though N. Korea still has two missiles pointed east supposedly nuclear at that. The U.S. has stopped flyin F-22s and B-2s for the moment.
It's either the quiet before the storm or just a prelude to nothin except Pudgy Kim makin noise.
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Old 2013-04-06, 21:07   Link #853
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I don't really understand why he resigned. Can someone explain?
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Old 2013-04-06, 22:30   Link #854
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Oh really? so the fall of the Soviet union didn't cut off the Cubans from Soviet aid? Was there a Phantom Soviet Union that continued to funnel support to Cuba and prevent it from suffering severe economic problems in the 90's?

Wow. I sure was a tool for not realizing something so obvious.
I said throughout the Cold War. And apparently you wrote post-Cold War.

My bad, and you smacked me with a mislead reply. Guess we are both square now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
I don't really understand why he resigned. Can someone explain?
Patsy. He didn't take any action, which was the RIGHT thing to do because inflaming tensions is pure retarded, but elements within the population and government wanted him to take action, which would inflame tensions.

His resignation is simply him being scapegoated for loss of national pride.
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Old 2013-04-06, 23:10   Link #855
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Patsy. He didn't take any action, which was the RIGHT thing to do because inflaming tensions is pure retarded, but elements within the population and government wanted him to take action, which would inflame tensions.

His resignation is simply him being scapegoated for loss of national pride.
Whatever could this mean and what can we extrapolate from this?
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Old 2013-04-07, 00:50   Link #856
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
To be fair, the Cuban Missle Crisis was partially jump started because the United States made ACTUAL attempts to take over the country. We trained a battalion to take over the country. From the Cuban governments perspective, inviting the Soviets with all their wonderful hardware was within their interest.
Which begs an interesting thought. The USA made mild attempts at invading because they consider Cuba to be a part of their goverment (just like Puerto Rico and some islands in the pacific), otherwise they would not grant automatic USA nationality to cuban exiles. So, China says Taiwan is part of their goverment and have made mild attempts to intimidate and have not discarded an invasion, should then Taiwan go nuclear for the sake of self preservation? >: )

Quote:
If anything, the real comparison should be how Cuba and North Korea responded to the realities of a post cold war environment where they were cut off from soviet aid. By all discernible measures, Cuba adapted much better than North Korea.
TBT Fidel Castro was lucky, their economy was wrecked ten years after the fall of the USSR, then Hugo Chavez was elected president and took over the oil emporiums in his country and used the money to subsidize the cuban economy like the USSR did back in the day (and nowadays are scared shitless that after the elections in Venezuela the $$$ stops flowing their way), otherwise cuba might mimicked NK strategy and re-initiated work on juragua nuclear plant
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Old 2013-04-07, 08:23   Link #857
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Which begs an interesting thought. The USA made mild attempts at invading because they consider Cuba to be a part of their goverment (just like Puerto Rico and some islands in the pacific), otherwise they would not grant automatic USA nationality to cuban exiles.
What you smoking man? Cause I sure as hell want some.


No. The United States did NOT consider Cuba part of their sovereign territory. If we did, we wouldn't have let there be a local Cuban government for Castro to overthrow, and we certainly wouldn't have allowed it to exist like this for decades after the Spanish American War. The fact that the US gave the cuban Exiles us citizenship is less about claiming cuba, and more about trying to show solidarity with them as refugees from an anticommunist state.

Seriously. Cuba's been an interdependent country since 1902.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
So, China says Taiwan is part of their goverment and have made mild attempts to intimidate and have not discarded an invasion, should then Taiwan go nuclear for the sake of self preservation? >: )
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response considering that your "interesting thought" that this analogy is coming from has absolutely no basis in reality.
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Old 2013-04-07, 11:12   Link #858
Ridwan
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I frankly expect nothing less from an ethnically homogenous country bordering next to a security threat, surrounded by domineering giants and has had history of being a bitter colony.
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Old 2013-04-07, 23:11   Link #859
killer3000ad
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North Korea likely preparing for nuclear test
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Old 2013-04-07, 23:30   Link #860
Ithekro
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Yea...and we postoned a Ballistic Missile test in an effort to calm things down.
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