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Old 2013-04-03, 17:14   Link #8001
wredsa
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Nothing was stated to that effect. What is definitely known is that Lelouch had families executed for speaking out against him (C. C. states this in the second to last picture drama); he geassed his soldiers into complete obedience, made them wear masks, and treated them as expendables; and he detonated Mt. Fuji, likely eliminating most of the world's major energy supplies, and causing a ton of destruction throughout Japan.
CC only tells Lelouch is atoning for using geass, not killing civilians. Britannia were using those same soldiers as expandables too, except they could now give their lives for attaining peace. Also Fuji blast did not drain as much energy to render a world wide shortage.
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Old 2013-04-04, 23:01   Link #8002
azul120
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I'm talking about Picture Drama 8, not her right before the assassination.

And here's the thing: the soldiers would not be expended like that in the first place if he went with a different plan. Again, he had options. Plus, the Mt. Fuji thing was a case of No Endor Holocaust for the sake of expediency.
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Old 2013-04-05, 09:52   Link #8003
wredsa
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I'm talking about Picture Drama 8, not her right before the assassination.

And here's the thing: the soldiers would not be expended like that in the first place if he went with a different plan. Again, he had options. Plus, the Mt. Fuji thing was a case of No Endor Holocaust for the sake of expediency.
Different plan and the snotty britannian would not want to join hands with rest of the world. With Lelouch's plan he united everyone against him.
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Old 2013-04-05, 17:55   Link #8004
azul120
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Originally Posted by wredsa View Post
Different plan and the snotty britannian would not want to join hands with rest of the world. With Lelouch's plan he united everyone against him.
He could have united everyone against Schneizel.
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Old 2013-04-06, 12:23   Link #8005
wredsa
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He could have united everyone against Schneizel.
Schneizel wanted to unite everyone against democlius ( spell check ) by destroying all the worlds big city and all its population. But Lelouch thought a geassed Schneizel could serve the new zero ( Suzaku ) well, so he absorbed all the hatred himself and saved Schneizel.

Now what Schneizel deserved it or not is debatable, like many are angry ohgi and villetta should not have happy endings. My personal feeling is that some sacrifice had to be made to ensure preace, and not everyone gets poetic judgment. So I do not bother whether ohdi deserved peace or not. I am just happy Lelouch's plan succeeded and his sacrifice was not in vain.
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Old 2013-04-06, 13:14   Link #8006
azul120
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Originally Posted by wredsa View Post
Schneizel wanted to unite everyone against democlius ( spell check ) by destroying all the worlds big city and all its population. But Lelouch thought a geassed Schneizel could serve the new zero ( Suzaku ) well, so he absorbed all the hatred himself and saved Schneizel.

Now what Schneizel deserved it or not is debatable, like many are angry ohgi and villetta should not have happy endings. My personal feeling is that some sacrifice had to be made to ensure preace, and not everyone gets poetic judgment. So I do not bother whether ohdi deserved peace or not. I am just happy Lelouch's plan succeeded and his sacrifice was not in vain.
You're not seeing the whole picture. Lelouch could have exposed Schneizel's plan to the people, and united everyone against the latter instead. It would have more likely than not cost less lives in the long run, plus he wouldn't need to go against the Black Knights and UFN, something that turned into a luck-based mission when Kallen almost beat Suzaku.
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Old 2013-04-06, 13:33   Link #8007
Xander
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And thus it all comes back to the fact Lelouch (and Suzaku) simply did not want to do anything else at that point in the story. Both his specific way of thinking and his emotional state prevented him from picking other choices that seem better from a purely external perspective, but which do not take into account the character's point of view and all the subjective (or self-serving, if you prefer) objectives he wanted to achieve aside from merely uniting the world.
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Old 2013-04-06, 14:03   Link #8008
Gundamx
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Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
You're not seeing the whole picture. Lelouch could have exposed Schneizel's plan to the people, and united everyone against the latter instead. It would have more likely than not cost less lives in the long run, plus he wouldn't need to go against the Black Knights and UFN, something that turned into a luck-based mission when Kallen almost beat Suzaku.
Will Britannia believed him?
No
Will Blacknight believe him?
With scumbag Ougi = No

He can't unite anyone against Schneizel at that point by words.
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Old 2013-04-06, 15:29   Link #8009
wredsa
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And thus it all comes back to the fact Lelouch (and Suzaku) simply did not want to do anything else at that point in the story. Both his specific way of thinking and his emotional state prevented him from picking other choices that seem better from a purely external perspective, but which do not take into account the character's point of view and all the subjective (or self-serving, if you prefer) objectives he wanted to achieve aside from merely uniting the world.
Remember Suzaku only helped him cuz he liked the idea that his ex-gf's name as a genocidal maniac would be erased. If Lelouch chose other way Suzaku would not help him ( though he cries when killing Lelouch, he would not have it any other way ). So in short only CC and Suzaku are on his team, and without Suzaku Lelouch can not accomplish anything at that point.
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Old 2013-04-07, 04:19   Link #8010
Aquaman OS
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If he wasn't such a jackass to the UFN he might have had a chance at uniting against Schinizel, however by the time he rolled out Damocles (and revealed Nunnally was alive) he was already too deep into the plan to stop (and Suzaku would have likely killed him if he wimped out for his own selfish desires for Nunnally again). Nobody would trust him at that point since he had basically proven everyone right in their theorys that he was an evil selfish bastard that wanted world dominiation.

Nunnally apparant death ruined everything. If he sucessfully took her back, then even if Schinizel talked the Black Knights into questioning him, Lelouch would have had the confidence and desire to talk his way out of it (I still maintain that if Lelouch had showed up full of confidence when Schnizel first attempted to negotiate he could have deflected Schniziels accusations and kept the BK on his side. But by the time he finally showed up they were already agitiated and he was too depressed to bother.) And ironically Nunally's supposed death had nothing to do with Ougi or Viletta.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:18   Link #8011
azul120
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
If he wasn't such a jackass to the UFN he might have had a chance at uniting against Schinizel, however by the time he rolled out Damocles (and revealed Nunnally was alive) he was already too deep into the plan to stop (and Suzaku would have likely killed him if he wimped out for his own selfish desires for Nunnally again). Nobody would trust him at that point since he had basically proven everyone right in their theorys that he was an evil selfish bastard that wanted world dominiation.

Nunnally apparant death ruined everything. If he sucessfully took her back, then even if Schinizel talked the Black Knights into questioning him, Lelouch would have had the confidence and desire to talk his way out of it (I still maintain that if Lelouch had showed up full of confidence when Schnizel first attempted to negotiate he could have deflected Schniziels accusations and kept the BK on his side. But by the time he finally showed up they were already agitiated and he was too depressed to bother.) And ironically Nunally's supposed death had nothing to do with Ougi or Viletta.
Actually, his last minute heart to heart with Kallen gave him one last second wind before the betrayal, which indeed had to do with Ohgi and Villetta tipping the scales, pretty much pushed Lelouch past the tipping point.

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Originally Posted by wredsa View Post
Remember Suzaku only helped him cuz he liked the idea that his ex-gf's name as a genocidal maniac would be erased. If Lelouch chose other way Suzaku would not help him ( though he cries when killing Lelouch, he would not have it any other way ). So in short only CC and Suzaku are on his team, and without Suzaku Lelouch can not accomplish anything at that point.
He no longer considered himself above Lelouch after the nuke and discarding his old methods, not to mention he already suspected Lelouch had been lying about deliberately geassing Euphie.

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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
Will Britannia believed him?
No
Will Blacknight believe him?
With scumbag Ougi = No

He can't unite anyone against Schneizel at that point by words.
He never even tried to explain his side of the story, and didn't even bother when he decided to go with the Zero Requiem.
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:31   Link #8012
Gundamx
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He never even tried to explain his side of the story, and didn't even bother when he decided to go with the Zero Requiem.
What the point?
**** Ougi didn't ask him like comrade but like death sentence criminal
and he even dare to invite Schinizel to see his execution
(that why Lelouch said there is no point to say anything since it's already been checkmate(

And then *** Ougi said if he try to come back we will just said that he is fake
(All japan higher up already betray rest of world(UFN) and joined hand with Schinizel)
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Old 2013-04-08, 15:36   Link #8013
azul120
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What the point?
**** Ougi didn't ask him like comrade but like death sentence criminal
and he even dare to invite Schinizel to see his execution
(that why Lelouch said there is no point to say anything since it's already been checkmate(

And then *** Ougi said if he try to come back we will just said that he is fake
(All japan higher up already betray rest of world(UFN) and joined hand with Schinizel)
I meant after becoming emperor/finishing off Charles.
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Old 2013-04-08, 18:30   Link #8014
Aquaman OS
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Because he felt he had nothing more to live for after Nunnally seemingly died and learning that everything he ever thought he knew (his father was an evil bastard that murdered his mother and he needed to defeat him to avenge her and so that he and Nunnally could be left alone) was all a lie and basically everything he did in his life was for naught, and wanted to die, so he figured he might as well make his death useful.

Then Nunnally turned up alive, but it was too late as he had already started the plan and it was too late to back out.
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Old 2013-04-09, 03:08   Link #8015
Gundamx
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I meant after becoming emperor/finishing off Charles.
Like I said after they way he become emperor >>> civilian and noble don't trust him
(Not under geass = random person they don't even know become emperor)

Black night and UFN trust *** Ougi more than him since they don't know that he is Zero but Britannia prince/emperor

So if *** Ougi say left = heaven(But it was actually hell) and Lelouch right = heaven
then all UFN will go left no matter what Lelouch try even if they can see flame from far away since Zero give them back their pride and hope
>>> *** Ougi used dead Zero name to control Blacknight

So in they end with most higher up in Blacknight from japan sold Blacknight and UFN for Schinizel = there no way he can do anything
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Old 2013-04-09, 03:50   Link #8016
azul120
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Because he felt he had nothing more to live for after Nunnally seemingly died and learning that everything he ever thought he knew (his father was an evil bastard that murdered his mother and he needed to defeat him to avenge her and so that he and Nunnally could be left alone) was all a lie and basically everything he did in his life was for naught, and wanted to die, so he figured he might as well make his death useful.

Then Nunnally turned up alive, but it was too late as he had already started the plan and it was too late to back out.
I know. I was countering wredsa's claim that he was doing it out of necessity. Lelouch, looking past his suicidalness, had other options open, and could have started anew with the Black Knights instead of the hostile takeover and everything that followed. It was only after he captured the UFN heads that the BKs declared war against him as emperor.

Semi-OT: How I wish Kallen showed Oghi pictures of Villetta spying on Lelouch during the year of capture.
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Old 2013-04-09, 03:54   Link #8017
Aquaman OS
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Yeah. He also could have just went off with Jeremiah to an orange farm and framed oranges while Schinizel conquered the world.

He wanted death then. And that was the option he choose.
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Old 2013-05-18, 04:23   Link #8018
darthfury78
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Yeah. He also could have just went off with Jeremiah to an orange farm and framed oranges while Schinizel conquered the world.

He wanted death then. And that was the option he choose.
I my opinion, from a production standpoint, the producers wanted to put Code Geass to an end as quickly as possible. No one on the production team ever imagined how successful their show was. And there was no guarantee that Sunrise would have commissioned another Code Geass series as an extension. In retrospect, I feel that with a schedule change to Code Geass R2, the producers should have created a 2-part recap episode(on Season One) that would have brought the new audience up to speed on the show. The last two episodes dealing with Zero's Requiem could have been produced as a 2-Part OVA series.

If the producers had retained their original plans for Code Geass R2 instead of changing the entire structure of the show, it might have turned out better if they had done a 2-part recap episode that would be a flashback of Season One, which might have been cheaper to produce than what was decided upon at the last minute.

Anyway, going back to Lelouch's death, I feel that death was the only escape for Lelouch for if he had lived, he would be in prison for the rest of his life. And while captured, if he managed to obtain his father's Geass, Lelouch might have found it as his way of escaping death because that would have been the only viable outcome for him. Either way, Lelouch was going to die. The only way that this whole ordeal could have been prevented is if Euphemia had not been Geassed into killing innocent lives, which led to her death.
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Old 2013-05-19, 04:56   Link #8019
Aquaman OS
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I don't think so. It was putting the two seasons together, 50 episodes, the same length as the usual Sunrise mech series. If anything they dragged it longer than they planned as they were afraid they'd get cancelled before season 1 was even finished as nobody in Sunrise had faith in the show at first. They certainly wouldn't go above 50, as only series based on ongoing manga do that.

Plus the writer and director insist that Zero requiem, the BK betrayal and Lelouch's death was always going to be the planned ending of the show. Only the road leading to it was changed in R2.
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Old 2013-05-20, 07:48   Link #8020
darthfury78
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I don't think so. It was putting the two seasons together, 50 episodes, the same length as the usual Sunrise mech series. If anything they dragged it longer than they planned as they were afraid they'd get cancelled before season 1 was even finished as nobody in Sunrise had faith in the show at first. They certainly wouldn't go above 50, as only series based on ongoing manga do that.

Plus the writer and director insist that Zero requiem, the BK betrayal and Lelouch's death was always going to be the planned ending of the show. Only the road leading to it was changed in R2.
Didn't I just said that if the producers had done a 2-part recap for Code Geass R2(Season One Flashback), they could have retained their original plans that lead to Zero's requiem? The 2-part recap episodes would not have affected the direction of the show as it would provide a crash introduction of Season One to the new audience. The remaining 2-episodes could have been packaged into a OVA series.

Like season one, I felt that season two was rushed as well as the producers had suspected that Code Geass R2 would be the end. I wished that Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion had started out as a manga series first before it even became an anime TV series.

It's good to know that Code Geass: Renya of Darkness and Code Geass: Oz the Reflection are being maintained as a manga series first before the anime is even produced. The manga usually serves as a guide for the anime to follow. It is too bad that Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion never got the opportunity to be produced as a manga series, followed by the anime series.

Last edited by darthfury78; 2013-05-20 at 08:52.
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