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Old 2013-04-01, 16:11   Link #3181
Kaijo
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Depending on how soon help arrives, we can save someone who has been stabbed through the stomach with out medical technology. So given what advanced medical techniques (and magic!) the TSAB health plan provides, I am not surprised Signum survived. Like I mentioned before, Cypha should have plunged that sword through Signum's head (or cut off her head) if she wanted a kill. Anything else is survivable.

I also presume most mages, especially of Signum's rank, can direct at least some magic toward healing their own wounds.
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Old 2013-04-01, 16:18   Link #3182
Akiyoshi
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Someone who got stabbed in the stomach, got her front torso opened and who fell from a height similar to a tall building without any sort of magical protection to cushion the impact xDU

Considering both Signum and Agito were uncouncoius and the fact it was already pitch dark when help finally arrived i doubt Signum can focus any councious effort into sustaining her wounds. Also any person with such level of injuries never get to recover fully from it most of the time ...let alone being able to fight high speed battles against super strong opponents xDU

Even the ones who get to achieve something like that must undergo likely more than a year of rehab.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2013-04-01 at 16:39.
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Old 2013-04-01, 19:24   Link #3183
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Yuuno's new spell, Caging Circle:

The current theory is that this capture-type spell somehow prevents its victim from leaving the circle (even to fly over or duck under it), while not actually inhibiting any other movement or action.

It might even interfere with attempts to attack the ring, via the same invisible "pressure" that prevents escape.


In function, this spell seems superior in many regards to other Binds, when used as part of a team.

Notice how none of the binding touches the target's body, and allows for extremely wide windows of attack. If Arf's ring-and-chain binds had remained in place, Vita's, Fate's and Signum's attacks would have destoyed them.

But the Capture Circle was relatively unobstrustive. Vita could attack downwards through it, Fate's attacks likewise came from above, and Signum shot underneath.

It was only the fourth attack, Fate's second slash, that destroyed the ring, and that might have been an accident. Fate might not have expected her last attack to inflict enough damage that it would cut through the Beast and travel down far enough to strike the ring.


Against a single large opponent that they all outnumbered, caging the monster in one spot was a higher priority than preventing it from attacking. With their superior numbers, they could scatter to provide too many targets, and provide covering defense and support to each other.

Of course, given how many limbs it had, and the attacks it could use without limbs, bind-and-chain binds likely wouldn't have prevented it from attacking or defending anyway. So yeah, much more important to keep the ugly thing from moving and building up momentum. Stop the train before it starts.


Another notable thing about the Caging Circle is how forcefully it closes on the target. It SHATTERS any tentacle in its path, causing the screen to shake slightly from implied force.

Yuuno may not have the skill or talent to perform Bombardment spells, but if he wanted he could probably develop a Capture-type spell that inflicts horrible damage on his enemies. (And why not; Zafira's Steel Yoke is explicitly a capture-spell despite working more like a wide-area attack.)
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Old 2013-04-04, 10:52   Link #3184
krisslanza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
AMF weakens magic. Eclipse kills it. Think of a campfire... AMF would be a light rain. The fire can possibly keep going depending on strength, but difficult. Eclipse is hitting the fire with a concentrated extinguisher(deprives fire of oxygen). Thus, Signum can keep a fire going in AMF. She can't in Eclipse.
I hope you don't mean literal fire, because as already pointed out in Force, fire/lightning/ice/etc are all "elements" and are actually completely immune to Eclipse, as they're elements, not magic.

Well, so long as the mage first turns them into elements properly. Characters like Signum and Fate can do this pretty easily... and, even if she's not in Force, I believe... Rio? I forget her name right now, but she has BOTH fire and lightning affinity.
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Old 2013-04-04, 11:06   Link #3185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
I hope you don't mean literal fire, because as already pointed out in Force, fire/lightning/ice/etc are all "elements" and are actually completely immune to Eclipse, as they're elements, not magic.

Well, so long as the mage first turns them into elements properly. Characters like Signum and Fate can do this pretty easily... and, even if she's not in Force, I believe... Rio? I forget her name right now, but she has BOTH fire and lightning affinity.
This was gone over before, but there is a bit of a difference between fire and lightning as far as magic is concerned. Fate used magic to gather thunderclouds and create the conditions that would cause a lightning bolt to form. Eclipse would have a hard time dealing with that, unless they were up in those clouds, because the magic is directed away from them, to create a non-magical lightning bolt.

Fire continuously needs fuel to function. When Signum shot fire at Cypha, she was using magic to fuel it. The Eclipse de-linked the magic, eliminating the fuel. Without fuel, the fire simply went poof.

You need to look at where the magic ends, and the natural element begins, to determine how effective it will be.
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Old 2013-04-04, 11:44   Link #3186
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Of course nothin of that is confirmed by canon but it's very unlikely the manga or the writer will explain this someday so this is so far the most solid theory around here to date xD
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Old 2013-04-05, 00:11   Link #3187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
This was gone over before, but there is a bit of a difference between fire and lightning as far as magic is concerned. Fate used magic to gather thunderclouds and create the conditions that would cause a lightning bolt to form. Eclipse would have a hard time dealing with that, unless they were up in those clouds, because the magic is directed away from them, to create a non-magical lightning bolt.

Fire continuously needs fuel to function. When Signum shot fire at Cypha, she was using magic to fuel it. The Eclipse de-linked the magic, eliminating the fuel. Without fuel, the fire simply went poof.

You need to look at where the magic ends, and the natural element begins, to determine how effective it will be.
Aww, he beat me to it. I had a similar idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Good argument but the Hucks weren't scarred of Hayate's Heimdall because it was "too much for them to dispell" in fact, Cypha was dispelling it just fine. They were scarred shitless because the spell accumulated real surrounding water to make a very physicall and very real GIANT MOUNTAIN OF ICE! she was about to land on their heads xD! Dispelling it won't do any good to them because the mountain was already there and since it's a humongous physical object their Anti-Magic wouldn't work on it meaning it will be Mount Everest VS. Squad Huckebein's physical resillience xDU No wonder Fortis pissed his pants when he saw that xD
This was the example I was going to use. Hayate was using magic both to summon a giant block of ice, and freeze surrounding water. The Hucks can dispel magical ice just fine, they, however, can't deal with a really big iceberg.
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:10   Link #3188
krisslanza
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Originally Posted by Hoki View Post
This was the example I was going to use. Hayate was using magic both to summon a giant block of ice, and freeze surrounding water. The Hucks can dispel magical ice just fine, they, however, can't deal with a really big iceberg.
I think that's more to do with that, while they can delink it, well, it's simply a matter of it being too much. Unless you can delink the whole thing enmass, all you did was make a whole bunch of large chunks of ice now raining down to destroy your ship
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:24   Link #3189
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
I think that's more to do with that, while they can delink it, well, it's simply a matter of it being too much. Unless you can delink the whole thing enmass, all you did was make a whole bunch of large chunks of ice now raining down to destroy your ship
And that's one of the most glaring differences I pointed out between the AMF and the Eclipse. An AMF shockwave could delink magic en masse but AMF itself is a weak form of anti-magic.

The Eclipse, although stronger, can't do this since its concentrated on the infected and its weapon.

Although now that I think about it, what is the nature of Touma's Divide Zero? It can knock out both mages and Eclipse infectees. Is it just some sort of mega powerful shockwave?
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:43   Link #3190
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Probably the Divide Zero Eclipse enhaces the Zero effect beyond simply delinking magic into simply delinking any kind of energy in general?
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Old 2013-04-06, 11:45   Link #3191
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Well, Eclipse users tend to have personal skills that aren't strictly anti-magic. Divide Zero could have a number of effects beyond just making magic go poof.
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Old 2013-04-06, 14:18   Link #3192
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Well I think that is because there is confusion on what the Eclipse does. The Eclipse does make you a living weapon with such physical powers as regeneration, stronger skin, etc. But the thing that divides magic is the Divider not the Eclipse Driver. But only a person infected by the Eclipse can use a Divider.
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Old 2013-04-06, 21:48   Link #3193
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Well, Eclipse users tend to have personal skills that aren't strictly anti-magic. Divide Zero could have a number of effects beyond just making magic go poof.
Well if the resident eclipse infectees think that the thing is scary enough that they'd want Touma to join them (aside from the fact that Touma is an infected), I'd figure it be some sort of ultimate technique.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:15   Link #3194
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Well, Hayate said that she felt like both her magic and life force took a hit.
By the look of it, it wasn`t the first time for the Hulks since all of them knew exactly what they were hit with and called Thoma a "Zero" for it.

They wanted Thoma to join before they knew he was a Zero.
The fact that he was a Zero was a big surprise, even Hardis didn`t like that fact.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:10   Link #3195
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I don't see however how is a surprise. They were trying to create the Zero user when they force Lily to make a contract and complete the Silver Cross, right? Or they just wanted to do it and see what happen? Now that last part sounds really possible.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:33   Link #3196
LostSome
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Where did you get that idea ?
You don`t need to be a Zero to use a Book of the Silver Cross. Curren uses one and Hardis had over 200 books.

There isn`t much about the Zero Driver that not speculation right now.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:38   Link #3197
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Yes, but if this happens at random how this people where hoping to find the Zero?

I mean they will infect every single human in the multiuniverse until one of them happens to be the Zero user?
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Old 2013-04-07, 15:03   Link #3198
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Spreading over an entire village and see if someone survived like Diego and Marky did is a lot after.
Marky said they were looking for a Zero.
Bloody, but fast.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:17   Link #3199
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And stupid really, seems like the perfect way to be sure you will get ambush or attack. Oh wait… that actually happen. If only they, I don’t know, use a secret base lab with people they kidnap from other places to experiment in secret. Oh wait… they did that and they were having no troubles until Thoma just find them by accident. Call me crazy but it seems one method actually has a future and the other doesn’t.
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Old 2013-04-08, 15:04   Link #3200
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Given Eclipse users don't have a long lifespan, doing things quickly is the best way. And frankly, they're strong enough with the whole Eclipse/Divider thing, that mages don't generally pose a threat to them anyway.
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