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Old 2013-04-06, 12:24   Link #4041
Rava
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Originally Posted by FRS View Post
If Tatsuya isnt willing to help what are you going to do when the master clan call for a demonstration or worse think that you are bluffing ?

Moreover Tatsuya is looking to get out of the master clan influence so i dont think he will be helpful.
The original hypothesis is not about what Tatsuya actually wants, because if a girl is actually able to seduce him in the first place -- something we all know is never going to happen -- we are already suppressing that factor in the first place.
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Old 2013-04-07, 09:42   Link #4042
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Originally Posted by FRS View Post
If Tatsuya isn't willing to help what are you going to do when the master clan call for a demonstration or worse think that you are bluffing ?

Moreover Tatsuya is looking to get out of the master clan influence so i dont think he will be helpful.
No, I've always seen Tatsuya's goal as not trying to get out of the master clan influence but to make the whole master clan system unneeded since the whole reason they exist is because large portions of the society sees mages only as weapons of war and they have very limited human rights. As unpleasant as many see the Yotsuba, remember they only exist because the government ordered them to experiment on themselves to make them into living weapons and they are the ones that didn't die.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:24   Link #4043
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
No, I've always seen Tatsuya's goal as not trying to get out of the master clan influence but to make the whole master clan system unneeded since the whole reason they exist is because large portions of the society sees mages only as weapons of war and they have very limited human rights. As unpleasant as many see the Yotsuba, remember they only exist because the government ordered them to experiment on themselves to make them into living weapons and they are the ones that didn't die.
Is that his goal since when, i did not find it anywhere on the text. There are somethings about raising the social status of magicians, and taking his freedom from the yotsuba but he has never express a desirer to get rid of the master clans.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:23   Link #4044
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Originally Posted by babbo3d View Post
Is that his goal since when, i did not find it anywhere on the text. There are somethings about raising the social status of magicians, and taking his freedom from the yotsuba but he has never express a desirer to get rid of the master clans.
That's the reason why he is researching sustainable nuclear fusion. According to him, its the first step for making magicians seem less like weapons (because it creates non-military prestigious jobs that only magicians can do). Of course, that is only the "official" reason that he stated to others; his real reason may still be different.

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Originally Posted by FRS View Post
Do you really think Tatsuya will be willing to threatens all the Master clan at once ?
It was mentioned that the fact that the Itsuwa was in the 10 Masters Clan was greatly effected by how they had (past tense) the only strategic class magician in Japan. Tatsuya's magic is significantly more destructive and versatile in essentially every way. If Tatsuya decided (for some reason or another) to create his own clan, I'm pretty sure he can easily get into the top 10s ranking with just his Decomposition magic alone, not even counting his Elemental Sight and Regeneration.
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:33   Link #4045
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imagine if tatsuya started his own criminal organization i bet it would the the strongest one
if anyone wants to use strategic class magic or nukes on tatsuya he can just be like then ill mb the whole region that used it
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Old 2013-04-07, 16:35   Link #4046
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
No, I've always seen Tatsuya's goal as not trying to get out of the master clan influence but to make the whole master clan system unneeded since the whole reason they exist is because large portions of the society sees mages only as weapons of war and they have very limited human rights. As unpleasant as many see the Yotsuba, remember they only exist because the government ordered them to experiment on themselves to make them into living weapons and they are the ones that didn't die.
I am not entierly in agreement, to me Tatsuya sees the logic behind the weaponization of mages, it's just that he wants another life, i dont think he's looking to unmade the ten master clan system, just creating another path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Occulus View Post
...
It was mentioned that the fact that the Itsuwa was in the 10 Masters Clan was greatly effected by how they had (past tense) the only strategic class magician in Japan. Tatsuya's magic is significantly more destructive and versatile in essentially every way. If Tatsuya decided (for some reason or another) to create his own clan, I'm pretty sure he can easily get into the top 10s ranking with just his Decomposition magic alone, not even counting his Elemental Sight and Regeneration.
True but what i argued was that at the end you will need Tatsuya cooperation, not just his mere presence as Rava wrote:

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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
If you have ever played Civilization (the first one) and run up against civilizations that start off negotiations with "OUR WORDS ARE BACKED BY NUCLEAR WEAPONS," that is exactly the effect Tatsuya will be able to give to any house he is in.

Whether Tatsuya himself is willing or not is totally irrelevant. His mere association will send the scales crashing in favor of whatever family he is associated with. Maya calls him a monster for very good reasons.
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Old 2013-04-07, 18:32   Link #4047
kagato3
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Originally Posted by Occulus View Post
That's the reason why he is researching sustainable nuclear fusion. According to him, its the first step for making magicians seem less like weapons (because it creates non-military prestigious jobs that only magicians can do). Of course, that is only the "official" reason that he stated to others; his real reason may still be different..
While it may not be his full goal it is it is a very important part of it. He is clearly shocked when he finds out that it is Suzune goal as well.

Quote:
Tatsuya didn't dig deeper into Mayumi's formless words.

Even if Suzune had a dream, surely that had nothing to do with him.

Regardless of Tatsuya's thoughts on the matter, Mayumi didn't stop there.

"Raising the social standing for Magicians. She aimed not to change their social standing through political pressure, but through economic necessity. By turning magic into an irreplaceable aspect in the economy, Magicians would be truly free of their fate as humanoid weapons. According to Rin-chan, Sustained Gravity Control-Type Magic Sequence Thermonuclear Fusion Reactor is the key step towards this goal. This thesis is precisely the first step for that purpose."

Tatsuya couldn't help but turn his head at this.

Under his widened eyes, even Mayumi shrank back a little.

"Hm, what is it?"

"That's astounding. I never thought that Ichihara-senpai was contemplating the exact same thing."


"Eh? Tatsuya-kun too?"

In all honesty, Suzune and Tatsuya couldn't be credited with the idea of using economic utility to raise Magicians' social standing. Despite the paltry number of supporters, this notion had already been around for at least twenty years. The only technicality was that there had hitherto been no sign of success.

Currently, the primary usage for Magicians remained strictly military.

With the global situation gradually stabilizing, practical mobilization of weaponry had decreased as well.

Still, innovations for Magicians — and not the magic sort — were still dominated by military purposes in the 90% tier.

At the current progression, all of this had yet to change.

The overwhelming majority of magic for domestic purposes could be replaced by machinery.

Temperature control and physical acceleration couldn't match the same superb effect from magic, but if restricted to the level for public consumption, then non-magic technology could still be viable. There was no need to use magic.

Nor did advanced automatons need to be replaced by Magicians. Magic was not required for operation or organization.

So far, no result that could only be produced by magic had supplanted the versatility of modern science, so "using economic advantages to liberate Magicians" remained empty words from idealists.


Quote:


It was mentioned that the fact that the Itsuwa was in the 10 Masters Clan was greatly effected by how they had (past tense) the only strategic class magician in Japan. Tatsuya's magic is significantly more destructive and versatile in essentially every way. If Tatsuya decided (for some reason or another) to create his own clan, I'm pretty sure he can easily get into the top 10s ranking with just his Decomposition magic alone, not even counting his Elemental Sight and Regeneration.
Remember the clans are created and controlled by the government and the current laws prevent mages from having direct influence of said government. Standing against a house with out the backing of the state would be treason. Tatsuya doing so would pretty much place himself on the too dangerous to live list. Also the only reason he can even have a remotely normal life is the amount of secrecy and shackles he has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRS View Post
I am not entierly in agreement, to me Tatsuya sees the logic behind the weaponization of mages, it's just that he wants another life, i dont think he's looking to unmade the ten master clan system, just creating another path.
:
Removeing the whole idea that mages = only weapons is his goal. That removes or at least drasticly changes the perpose of the master clans. He's not doing it out of malice or to bring them down but the change he wants to bring about would vastly alter their power base and roll in socity.
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Last edited by kagato3; 2013-04-07 at 19:03.
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Old 2013-04-07, 19:15   Link #4048
babbo3d
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
While it may not be his full goal it is it is a very important part of it. He is clearly shocked when he finds out that it is Suzune goal as well.







Remember the clans are created and controlled by the government and the current laws prevent mages from having direct influence of said government. Standing against a house with out the backing of the state would be treason. Tatsuya doing so would pretty much place himself on the too dangerous to live list. Also the only reason he can even have a remotely normal life is the amount of secrecy and shackles he has.


Removeing the whole idea that mages = only weapons is his goal. That removes or at least drasticly changes the perpose of the master clans. He's not doing it out of malice or to bring them down but the change he wants to bring about would vastly alter their power base and roll in socity.
No the clans already existed since before, I think what you meant was the when magic came into the picture as a weapon magically gifted received numbers in their last name as a show of status.
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Old 2013-04-08, 11:41   Link #4049
kazzuya13
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Originally Posted by babbo3d View Post
No the clans already existed since before, I think what you meant was the when magic came into the picture as a weapon magically gifted received numbers in their last name as a show of status.
That is the reason why Juumoji propose to Tatsuya to marry Mayuymi. Because sooner or later the 10 clans will want Tatsuya (By the way Juumonji doesn't know about the connection of Tatsuya and the Yotsuba clan)
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Old 2013-04-09, 03:07   Link #4050
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I just reread part of the novel and I notice something

Spoiler for It's about Erika. No, this isn't a shipping:
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Old 2013-04-09, 07:49   Link #4051
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^

If my memory's right, Orochimaru was given to her because her technique is suitable for it, which only she can do.
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Old 2013-04-09, 08:46   Link #4052
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Old 2013-04-09, 09:42   Link #4053
CatRules
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Originally Posted by alviam099 View Post
^

If my memory's right, Orochimaru was given to her because her technique is suitable for it, which only she can do.

I know that it was given to her because only her can use it to its full power.

But what I want to say is I believe there must be some reason that Erika specifically dreamt to wield Orochimaru.

Yes, she may has some innate talent that enable her to use it better than other but she doesn't solely rely on that gift.

She TRAINED in order obtain the ability to use it.

My question is why Orochimaru? Is it has some special meaning to her?



Spoiler for Here're some quote:



I don't know if there is really any reason behind her obsession with Orochimaru or not. But I do think there must be something we don't know about her relationship with the sword.

I hope the author will give some explanation in the future............... of course TatsuyaXErika scenes are always welcomed!!!
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Old 2013-04-09, 10:56   Link #4054
babbo3d
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Originally Posted by CatRules View Post
I know that it was given to her because only her can use it to its full power.

But what I want to say is I believe there must be some reason that Erika specifically dreamt to wield Orochimaru.

Yes, she may has some innate talent that enable her to use it better than other but she doesn't solely rely on that gift.

She TRAINED in order obtain the ability to use it.

My question is why Orochimaru? Is it has some special meaning to her?



Spoiler for Here're some quote:



I don't know if there is really any reason behind her obsession with Orochimaru or not. But I do think there must be something we don't know about her relationship with the sword.

I hope the author will give some explanation in the future............... of course TatsuyaXErika scenes are always welcomed!!!
isn't it because is a incredibly powerful weapon.
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Old 2013-04-09, 14:29   Link #4055
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by CatRules View Post
I know that it was given to her because only her can use it to its full power.

But what I want to say is I believe there must be some reason that Erika specifically dreamt to wield Orochimaru.

Yes, she may has some innate talent that enable her to use it better than other but she doesn't solely rely on that gift.

She TRAINED in order obtain the ability to use it.

My question is why Orochimaru? Is it has some special meaning to her?



Spoiler for Here're some quote:



I don't know if there is really any reason behind her obsession with Orochimaru or not. But I do think there must be something we don't know about her relationship with the sword.

I hope the author will give some explanation in the future............... of course TatsuyaXErika scenes are always welcomed!!!
She trained really hard to use Yamatsunami, an ability. Orochimaru is a blade that is highly suited for use with this ability. Of her family, only she is able to properly use Yamatsunami to the fullest extent which was why she was given the blade.
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Old 2013-04-09, 17:42   Link #4056
kagato3
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No the clans already existed since before, I think what you meant was the when magic came into the picture as a weapon magically gifted received numbers in their last name as a show of status.
You are mixing up the Ten master Clans and the hundred Families.

Quote:
The power of the Ten Master Houses ascends beyond that of judicial authorities.

Once it was known that talent in modern magic is influenced by one's genetic predisposition, as a matter of course, lengths were taken to strengthen one's blood.

That means, for countries which systematically classified magic as the form of national power, throughout all the countries in the world, there are already differences from the age when magic was still unknown.

Of course, that also applied to this country.

The result was the formation of a new group to oversee the magic realm in the country.

Those were the 10 Master Houses.

Their history is less than a century old, so the hierarchy is still fluid.

However the fact is, in the families called the Ten Master Houses, a barrier has already appeared between them and others which is hard to overcome.

By repeatedly reinforcing their blood with ties between the Houses, the Ten Master Houses, along with the related 100 Families, possess a marked difference from those who are not.
Quote:


They were both of the Hundred Families, but Kanon belonged to the Chiyoda Family near the pinnacle. Talented Magicians from prestigious families were the true representation of "Hundred Families".

Here, the "Hundred Families" didn't actually mean the number broke one hundred.

Just as the hundreds digit followed the tens digit, the same meaning applied in that they were "families that were second only to the Ten Master Clans".

In addition, the Ten Master Clans did not consist of only ten families. There were a total of 28 families worthy of the name the Ten Master Clans, and whoever possessed the strongest magic (notice that this was not the most talented, but the strongest), the top ten would be collectively known as the Ten Master Clans.

Mayumi's Saegusa Family always boasted a large number of talented Magicians, whereas the Yotsuba Family possessed one of the strongest Magicians in the modern era. The "Demon Lord of the Far East", the "Midnight Queen", Yotsuba Maya was the current head of house, which caused both families to be acknowledged as the twin aces of the Ten Master Clans.

Currently, the Ten Master Clans consisted of "Ichijou", "Futatsugi", "Mitsuya", "Yotsuba", "Itsuwa", "Mutsudzuka", "Saegusa", "Yatsushiro", "Kudou", and "Juumonji", which just happened to number from one to ten chronologically. However, this was the first time this had occurred since the Ten Master Clans had been formed, and there have been situations where one or two numbers were either duplicated or missing altogether.

The strongest of the strong became the Ten Master Clans, with the other 18 families as replacements, followed closely by the authentic "Hundred Families".
the Hundred families are real families while it seems the ten Master clans were formed less then 100 years ago Volume 8 even hints at a darker meaning of the 10 master clans

Quote:
“That’s because this is the site of the infamous ‘Fourth Institute’.”

“The site of the deathly[1] Magic Ability Development Fourth Institute huh……just looking at the building here now, there’s no way to tell.”

During the rise of modern magic, just as in other developed countries, many research and development institutions sprang up dealing with magicians. 10 numbered institutes were set up, and now half of them are still operating. The remaining half, as rights for magicians started to pick up, were closed down one by one for inhumane research amongst other reasons.

Amongst even these was the institute whose research was whispered to have disregarded human life and humanity itself, the Fourth Institute of Magician Development, or the ‘Fourth Institute’.


Due to the confidentiality surrounding both the Fourth Institute and it’s research, not even it’s location had ever been publicly disclosed, only an announcement that it was to be shut down.

The centre of the former Fourth Institute, was located right in the basement of the Yotsuba main house.

The products of the Fourth Institute, the magicians they developed, were designated only with the number ‘Four’—the Yotsuba.

Magicians with the letter four in their family name, aside from the Yotsuba, are known to include the ‘Yomo’, ‘Shihoudou’, and ‘Watanuki’, but they are unconnected to the Ten Master Houses and the 18 auxiliary houses.
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Old 2013-04-09, 17:55   Link #4057
babbo3d
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
You are mixing up the Ten master Clans and the hundred Families.



the Hundred families are real families while it seems the ten Master clans were formed less then 100 years ago Volume 8 even hints at a darker meaning of the 10 master clans
First i meant both, since the 10 master clans are just the ones that had the most powerful bloodlines like the 100 they were families before that. And just because their where 10 institutes doesn't mean those became the 10 master clans since the axillary 18 houses have also being part of the 10 master houses (i'm not saying that the 10 had nothing to do with the institute just that is not where they originated), like Tatsuya said himself this is the first time in it"s history that it has been one to ten consecutively. their history is less than 100 years old because like Tatsuya said in vol.1 countries started being lock in a race to nurtured magicians just recently giving them a rise in importance.
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Old 2013-04-09, 18:26   Link #4058
kagato3
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First i meant both, since the 10 master clans are just the ones that had the most powerful bloodlines like the 100 they were families before that. And just because their where 10 institutes doesn't mean those became the 10 master clans since the axillary 18 houses have also being part of the 10 master houses (i'm not saying that the 10 had nothing to do with the institute just that is not where they originated), like Tatsuya said himself this is the first time in it"s history that it has been one to ten consecutively. their history is less than 100 years old because like Tatsuya said in vol.1 countries started being lock in a race to nurtured magicians just recently giving them a rise in importance.
First the Master clans are not the same as the 100 families. They are and I quote "a new group to oversee the magic realm in the country." The hunderd families are the stongest authentic families.

Second it is not the first time the 10 master clans were numbers 1-10 it is the second time the first would have been durring the same time that all 10 of the labs were in existance since at the start of the rise of modern magic and when the master clans were formed. The Yotsuba were formed by those that were made/remade in the Fourth Institute so at the very least they originated from them. So you think it is completely unlikely that the other families are also products of the other respective Institutes when we already have one clear link between the 2.
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Old 2013-04-09, 18:55   Link #4059
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
First the Master clans are not the same as the 100 families. They are and I quote "a new group to oversee the magic realm in the country." The hunderd families are the stongest authentic families.

Second it is not the first time the 10 master clans were numbers 1-10 it is the second time the first would have been durring the same time that all 10 of the labs were in existance since at the start of the rise of modern magic and when the master clans were formed. The Yotsuba were formed by those that were made/remade in the Fourth Institute so at the very least they originated from them. So you think it is completely unlikely that the other families are also products of the other respective Institutes when we already have one clear link between the 2.
The group is new yes but the families are not, they like the undreds family existed before and were given their numbers by the military. And this verious proclamations have not been implicitly stated.
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Old 2013-04-09, 22:09   Link #4060
kagato3
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Originally Posted by babbo3d View Post
The group is new yes but the families are not, they like the undreds family existed before and were given their numbers by the military. And this verious proclamations have not been implicitly stated.
Care to share where you found this information that they existed before the master clans were founded? The only thing I have found is mention of the history of some of the hundred clans, but the only history I have found on the master clans was the Yotsuba which again they state was formed by those that were made/remade in the Fourth Institute. They also made it quite clear that the master clans were not just part of the hundred clans. If they were only the strongest of the hundred clans then there would not be a need to distingush between the hundred families and the 18 replacement clans.
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