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Old 2013-04-10, 11:35   Link #41
GreyZone
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Yes, "anime original endings". The horror of every adaption.
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Old 2013-04-10, 11:59   Link #42
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Yes, "anime original endings". The horror of every adaption.
This is the big problem with trying to adapt a show that hasn't ended. It's like the principle that people only remember the beginning and the ending of something, and forget what happens in the middle, so for anime-only viewers you want a show that goes out on a bang so is more memorable. But if the source material hasn't ended yet, you have to come up with some sort of climax that wasn't originally there and try to write it in such a way that doesn't contradict things that may come later, even though you don't necessarily know what those future things may be. Plus, no matter what you do, you'll still get hate from source-material loyalists who will accuse you of ruining the source material. I guess another option is to just hit a stop point and end the show, but you do absolutely see complaints (mostly from anime-only viewers) of "what was with that ending? It didn't resolve anything at all; lame..."

I definitely don't envy the staff that have to try to figure this conundrum out.
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Old 2013-04-10, 13:29   Link #43
GreyZone
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is the big problem with trying to adapt a show that hasn't ended. It's like the principle that people only remember the beginning and the ending of something, and forget what happens in the middle, so for anime-only viewers you want a show that goes out on a bang so is more memorable. But if the source material hasn't ended yet, you have to come up with some sort of climax that wasn't originally there and try to write it in such a way that doesn't contradict things that may come later, even though you don't necessarily know what those future things may be. Plus, no matter what you do, you'll still get hate from source-material loyalists who will accuse you of ruining the source material. I guess another option is to just hit a stop point and end the show, but you do absolutely see complaints (mostly from anime-only viewers) of "what was with that ending? It didn't resolve anything at all; lame..."

I definitely don't envy the staff that have to try to figure this conundrum out.
I can completely understand that and I don't blame anyone for that.

But it is still there. If I look back at what happened to the Shaman King anime... the "theme" of the anime end is completely contradicting to the manga ending. Yes I know that the Manga was "stalled" for many years and the anime had cought up way before that, but still, the end result of the anime ending is absolutely disappointing and cliché. (Sorry for the vague wording, but I wanted to prevent spoilers)
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Old 2013-04-10, 15:49   Link #44
Xion Valkyrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is the big problem with trying to adapt a show that hasn't ended. It's like the principle that people only remember the beginning and the ending of something, and forget what happens in the middle, so for anime-only viewers you want a show that goes out on a bang so is more memorable. But if the source material hasn't ended yet, you have to come up with some sort of climax that wasn't originally there and try to write it in such a way that doesn't contradict things that may come later, even though you don't necessarily know what those future things may be. Plus, no matter what you do, you'll still get hate from source-material loyalists who will accuse you of ruining the source material. I guess another option is to just hit a stop point and end the show, but you do absolutely see complaints (mostly from anime-only viewers) of "what was with that ending? It didn't resolve anything at all; lame..."

I definitely don't envy the staff that have to try to figure this conundrum out.
If they're doing an adaptation and they can't do it right, then maybe they shouldn't have picked it up in the first place. Frankly, I think they should just not have an ending. Just stop at a good place and tell people to read the manga if they want to find out what happens next.
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Old 2013-04-10, 16:03   Link #45
4Tran
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
To be honest, it's less about the anime being about an original work or not, as it is with that particular viewer having been familiar with the source material before watching the anime.

If the viewer has no experience at all with the source material, then its as good as an original anime to them. It's all about having preconceived notions about how the anime should look, or how its characters should act, or how its story progresses from the original source that I find is detracting a lot of enjoyment from the show.

This is because people naturally compare the two and they zero in the 'mistakes' the adaption has made in comparison to the original, while rarely do they praise what was improved upon. Ironically enough, if it's a 1:1 adaptation, those familiar with the source gets bored very quickly and the likelihood that they finish the adaptation drops dramatically.
A lot of the problems inherent to adaptations can be pretty apparent even if one isn't familiar with the source material. Shinsekai Yori is a good example here with entire episodes taken up by a single conversation. An adaptation can do well with such limitations, but they're still limitations.

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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Yes, "anime original endings". The horror of every adaption.
That can be laid more at the feet of bad writing as anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is the big problem with trying to adapt a show that hasn't ended. It's like the principle that people only remember the beginning and the ending of something, and forget what happens in the middle, so for anime-only viewers you want a show that goes out on a bang so is more memorable. But if the source material hasn't ended yet, you have to come up with some sort of climax that wasn't originally there and try to write it in such a way that doesn't contradict things that may come later, even though you don't necessarily know what those future things may be. Plus, no matter what you do, you'll still get hate from source-material loyalists who will accuse you of ruining the source material. I guess another option is to just hit a stop point and end the show, but you do absolutely see complaints (mostly from anime-only viewers) of "what was with that ending? It didn't resolve anything at all; lame..."

I definitely don't envy the staff that have to try to figure this conundrum out.
Most anime adaptations aren't as lucky as the staff of Saki to have the mangaka consult heavily with the ending. It also doesn't help that most adaptations are made when the manga is at the height of its popularity, so it's probably nowhere near a proper ending.

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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
If they're doing an adaptation and they can't do it right, then maybe they shouldn't have picked it up in the first place.
You seem to be under the impression that anime studios pick and choose manga to adapt. That's usually not what happens. Usually, the manga publisher will approach an anime studio with the offer to produce the adaptation. If the first studio passes on the offer, it'll just go to the next one. You'll even run into the weird scenario of the people making the anime actively despising the source material.
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Old 2013-04-10, 16:34   Link #46
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Most anime adaptations aren't as lucky as the staff of Saki to have the mangaka consult heavily with the ending. It also doesn't help that most adaptations are made when the manga is at the height of its popularity, so it's probably nowhere near a proper ending.
Yup. Actually, I've noticed anecdotally that involvement with the original authors seems to be becoming a bit more prevalent (with more authors getting or sharing series composition and script credits for anime), but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone involved will even *want* the anime to follow the manga faithfully (even if that's what some of the fans would want). There are cases where the novel author specifically tells the anime director/writers to go their own way, wanting to see what other creators can come up with. And of course there are also cases where anime-original content was actually written by the novel/manga author (which raises the interesting "is it canon or not?" question).

I guess all that to say that, in some people's slavish devotion to the source material, they may fail to consider that not even all creators are as adamant that their own creation is best. Being faithful to the source material may have even been a "non-goal" in the first place for some teams, based on the guidance of the original author. Of course, every decision has consequences, and if you're going to go your own way, good concepts and execution are still critical.
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Old 2013-04-10, 17:16   Link #47
Xion Valkyrie
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Deviations seem to be much better received if they actually enhance the series. Episode 1 of Hataraku Maou-sama!! has quite a few stark differences from both the original LN and the manga, but everyone praises it for doing something really great. Of course the original fan base isn't particularly big.

Of course even with good adaptations with original deviations you'll still have your detracts, but if it's actually well done the people who appreciate the differences or don't care about the differences will drown them out. However, when the anime itself is below average in terms of production or the deviations are unnecessary, then you'll find very few people defending the series and the detractors who are faithful will to original series will be the loudest.
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