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Old 2006-01-30, 19:44   Link #421
KaneDragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
Yes, you’re right. He did let out a sigh of disappointment. He was trying to look up her skirt and I think that was the whole comedic point of that scene. On the other hand, he could have been sighing because he wasn't trying to look up her skirt and he was bummed that he was being mislabeled as a pervert.

So that scene could have been interpreted two ways (I think).
Um... nope. It's pretty obvious that he's just a pervert. He's just standing there, in front of the stairs, trying to stare up their skirts. Watch his head movement.
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Old 2006-01-30, 19:58   Link #422
Catgirls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaneDragon
Um... nope. It's pretty obvious that he's just a pervert. He's just standing there, in front of the stairs, trying to stare up their skirts. Watch his head movement.
Hmmmm...well, I watched the scene again and you're probably right. He lags behind (no pun intended) the three girls as they walk up the stairs (that’s probably the most obvious sign right there) and when they cut to the shot that you posted, the sound effects (kind of a male throaty excitement) do lean more toward him being a pervert waiting in anticipation of something. Even the final shot of that particular scene has him sounding like a guy that lost the lottery.

So yeah…pervy.
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Old 2006-01-30, 20:12   Link #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
Hmmmm...well, I watched the scene again and you're probably right. He lags behind (no pun intended) the three girls as they walk up the stairs (that’s probably the most obvious sign right there) and when they cut to the shot that you posted, the sound effects (kind of a male throaty excitement) do lean more toward him being a pervert waiting in anticipation of something. Even the final shot of that particular scene has him sounding like a guy that lost the lottery.

So yeah…pervy.
You see, the average pervert requires regular view of various parts of a girl's body for sustenance. If his supply is cut off, he curls up into a ball and dies.

This is why perverts are an endangered species, kids!!!
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Old 2006-01-30, 20:50   Link #424
KaneDragon
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That and the fact that they're so stupidly obvious in this case, they'd get wiped out by Tomari-chan roundhouse kicks to the FACE!
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Old 2006-01-30, 21:02   Link #425
ladholyman
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You guys, Asuta is the best character in all of this, he needs to get his act up and start his harem. Right now.
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Old 2006-01-30, 21:23   Link #426
Catgirls
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Originally Posted by ladholyman
You guys, Asuta is the best character in all of this, he needs to get his act up and start his harem. Right now.
Actually, Hazumu is setting up her own harem and Asuta is going to be the guy in the black leather thong holding the palm leaf fan and serving drinks.
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Old 2006-01-30, 21:58   Link #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
I also think the author is missing some dramatic potential. If you were a dad, and your son just changed into a girl, that's a pretty big deal, no matter how girly he was previously. There could be an interesting struggle there.
Speaking of which, there's something that I feel was kind of avoided in the anime (and probably manga, from what I've seen): Hazumu's parents kept saying that they wanted a girl, and are happy that Hazumu is now a girl.

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I were in Hazumu's situation and my parents said that to me, I'd be feeling a major hit to my ego. A sort of "so what was wrong with me being a boy?"

Incidentally, I agree that I don't think this series should be concentrating on the comedy, since so much of it is overdone and unfunny. There really is a great opportunity to explore gender roles and relationships in society here, and it feels like such a pity that the show doesn't take advantage of that.

Still, it's early in the series. Maybe it'll get better later.
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Old 2006-01-30, 22:44   Link #428
Catgirls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I were in Hazumu's situation and my parents said that to me, I'd be feeling a major hit to my ego. A sort of "so what was wrong with me being a boy?".
Complex? Well, yeah...let's think about it:

- his Dad wants to take a bath with him now.
- his Mom tells him that they always wanted a girl.
- his best "male" friend is starting to "ogle" him.
- a girl that rejected him "seems" to have the hots for him.

And a few other manga spoilers I won't list, but it seems almost everyone likes him better as a girl. I think there’s a trend here.

Last edited by Catgirls; 2006-01-30 at 23:04. Reason: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
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Old 2006-01-30, 23:11   Link #429
JediNight
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Good comments dkellis, although maybe the Japanese find this sort of thing more funny? Who knows. I think part of the thing with the parents is that they fuss over Hazumu so much that they only care about the fact that Hazumu is unharmed (physically at least) and isn't overtly suffering about the situation. As Ayuki says: Hazumu doesn't seem to care that much about Boys vs Girls. Also the parents are intentionally over the top caricatures of overprotective parents.

I'm sure there are quite a few people in this world that would be able to function just fine given either role suddenly. But yes most societal norms like to enforce a large chasm between the genders like they are polar opposites. So whether by nature, society, or nurture, we have gender roles the way they are now.

I find it quite interesting the wide range of views on this topic that have been expressed so far. You have the extremely "male-sided" viewpoints of how horrible that would be, and why isn't Hazumu visibly suffering greatly etc. Then on the other end people pointing out Hazumu was rather gender-neutral to begin with etc.

I will say personally that you see some hints in ep2 that Hazumu is dealing with/rationalizing the change internally, but doesn't outwardly voice it really to others. Hazumu also seems to have this disconnect that while she doesn't really fret over boys vs girls much as Ayuki said, she still buys heavily into society telling her HOW Boys and Girls should act. So now that shes a girl shes like "Well I'm a girl now, so I have to start doing everything exactly like how a "girl" acts .... even though if you look at Ayuki, Tomari (especially lol), Yasuna, etc. there is a wide variety in personalities. Asuta even comments on how "manly" Tomari acts. Although Hazumu does bring up the good point as well that even though her appearance has changed, she is still Hazumu on the inside ... so theres hope she will think about that more after awhile and not get carried away in all the "must be 100% "girl" " stuff.
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Old 2006-01-30, 23:19   Link #430
JediNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirls
Complex? Well, yeah...let's think about it:

- his Dad wants to take a bath with him now.
- his Mom tells him that they always wanted a girl.
- his best "male" friend is starting to "ogle" him.
- a girl that rejected him "seems" to have the hots for him.

And a few other manga spoilers I won't list, but it seems almost everyone likes him better as a girl. I think there’s a trend here.
I don't really agree with your assessments.

#1 Hazumu's dad is just a closet pedo it seems. Nothing to see here, move along.
#2 His mom and both parents in general were over-protective to the extreme even BEFORE the change from the looks of it. So I think the mom would be happy no matter what Hazumu looked like as long as Hazumu was happy.
#3 Asuta fits into the "stereotypical teenage boy" typeset, so I think he knows its wrong but it doesn't stop him from the initial reaction. A comedic character in a constant war with his hormones for our viewing enjoyment as it were. Hazumu is very cute as a girl after all, and without any knowledge of Hazumu before that would be a very normal reaction. Wait for the beach ep
#4 You have read the manga as well so I'll just say that that statement is rather misleading about Yasuna. The reasons for Yasuna's actions are made clear early on in the manga, and it has nothing to do with liking Hazumu better as a girl.
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Old 2006-01-30, 23:29   Link #431
Catgirls
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#1 Hazumu's dad is just a closet pedo it seems. Nothing to see here, move along.

Ridiculous. There are no indications he's a closet pedo. In the anime or in the manga. I respectfully disagree. The show doesn’t have enough depth for the father to be closet pedo...just a perv.

#2 His mom and both parents in general were over-protective to the extreme even BEFORE the change from the looks of it. So I think the mom would be happy no matter what Hazumu looked like as long as Hazumu was happy.

His mom stated that they always wanted a girl. I'm sure she wants him to be happy, but the fact remains that she told him that "they" always wanted a girl. That’s all I stated. I didn’t read into the statement. I’m sure later on she’ll tell him what you’ve written above.

#3 Asuta fits into the "stereotypical teenage boy" typeset, so I think he knows its wrong but it doesn't stop him from the initial reaction. A comedic character in a constant war with his hormones for our viewing enjoyment as it were. Hazumu is very cute as a girl after all, and without any knowledge of Hazumu before that would be a very normal reaction. Wait for the beach ep

Yes...we agree. That's pretty much what I said. He's beginning to ogle him. I didn't say it wasn't typical, I noted that his best friend was beginning to take an interesting in him.

#4 You have read the manga as well so I'll just say that that statement is rather misleading about Yasuna. The reasons for Yasuna's actions are made clear early on in the manga, and it has nothing to do with liking Hazumu better as a girl.

True, but neither Hazumu nor the anime audience really know the full detail of her "disease". As of episode 2 of the anime, Hazumu isn't at all the aware of Yasuna "disease", so I was stating it as it is up to now in the anime. Not the manga.

Cheers.
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Old 2006-01-31, 01:12   Link #432
Eclipze
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From the posts of view point regarding the anime itself, it seems like Kashimashi isn't appealing to a good portion of anime viewers.

I dont know, but if the show really is so un-appealing to you who dislike it, why is there so much effort put forth to "improve" the series to your taste?

The comedic side may be whacky, but it DOES appeal to quite a substantial amount of people for it to be hyped as such, so whats the problem here, really?
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Old 2006-01-31, 01:30   Link #433
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
The comedic side may be whacky, but it DOES appeal to quite a substantial amount of people for it to be hyped as such, so whats the problem here, really?
I don't see a lot of people saying that they think the comedy of the series is a high point. Besides, I thought this was a thread for discussion, not mindless praise. Discussion can include things you don't think the anime is doing well AND things you like, you know.

Besides, if I didn't like the show in some capacity, I wouldn't waste my time watching it. Especially since I normally have no interest in yuri-themed series.
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Old 2006-01-31, 01:56   Link #434
Eclipze
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Originally Posted by musouka
I don't see a lot of people saying that they think the comedy of the series is a high point. Besides, I thought this was a thread for discussion, not mindless praise. Discussion can include things you don't think the anime is doing well AND things you like, you know.

Besides, if I didn't like the show in some capacity, I wouldn't waste my time watching it. Especially since I normally have no interest in yuri-themed series.
I didnt say it was a high point, just that it was appealing enough for them to accept it.

Mindless praising? I thought that only occurs in shows like Naruto...

And regarding the part that you think the anime isn't doing well: Erm, I would understand if they dont play out the events smoothly or saying that it is too un-natural for certain things which occured in the anime which is completely off, but whats the real issue regarding the comedic parts?

If a certain number of people are not put-off by it, I dont see a point in bringing it up when it totally relates to personal preference.
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Old 2006-01-31, 02:06   Link #435
musouka
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
I didnt say it was a high point, just that it was appealing enough for them to accept it.
And it's not for me. I am just articulating a wish for the series to play to its strengths and get rid of the chaff, even though I know it's not going to happen. What's the problem here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
If a certain number of people are not put-off by it, I dont see a point in bringing it up when it totally relates to personal preference.
Except I'm not the only one in the thread that feels that way, though I might not be in the majority. Yes, it is my personal preference, but you always have the option of disagreeing or just skipping my posts all together. Saying I should just refrain from bringing it up is silly.
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Old 2006-01-31, 02:15   Link #436
Eclipze
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Ok, lets start all over again.

I want to know: what exactly is bad about the comedic parts? Too much exaggeration?

And, just because the show is somewhat dealing with some drama between Hazumu and the girls does not mean that it is restricted to doing that alone. If the comedic parts that they used to tell the story in their own perspective do not appeal to you, thats that.

Saying that they should not even have any comedic parts in the anime(or so I can perceive from your post) just because they do not appeal to you, is somewhat crossing the line between opinion and mindless demand(sterotyping of shows).


Of course you are not the only one, at least 4 to 5 of the posters agree with you, but I really dont see why comedic effects shouldn't exist in Kashimashi.
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Old 2006-01-31, 02:38   Link #437
musouka
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Originally Posted by Eclipze
I want to know: what exactly is bad about the comedic parts? Too much exaggeration?
I would have thought I made it clear from my other posts on the topic, but I'll reiterate:

1. It relies too much on stereotyping supporting characters, making them uninteresting and, at worst, VERY annoying. Whenever Asuta shows up in the manga, I flip to the next page because I don't want to see yet another "LOLOLOLOLOL My best friend has boobs and I totally wanna mack on her now, so let me go into a horribly generic shounen fantasy sequence!111!"

2. The jokes aren't funny the first time, yet the author keeps on repeating them over and over. As I said in the first point, I actually begin to skip pages when certain characters show up because they're so incredibly irritating and I know they will have absolutely NO impact on the plot.

3. It is not particularly original, and other series have done it much better and funnier, so why even bother? Why not stick to what makes the show interesting instead of feeling like it has to be a comedy?

4. It doesn't really even fit with the core of the series. Does this series want to be a gentle love triangle between three girls and an amusing exploration of gender issues, or a ka-razy gender-bender comedy filled with ka-razy characters and ka-razy situations? I'll take the former, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
And, just because the show is somewhat dealing with some drama between Hazumu and the girls does not mean that it is restricted to doing that alone.
Well, of course not. But it would certain help to make the side character fleshened out if they got their own parts in the drama. Having a bunch of one-note characters does nothing for the series and only makes it tiresome after they've all done their little shtick once or twice per episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Saying that they should not even have any comedic parts in the anime(or so I can perceive from your post) just because they do not appeal to you, is somewhat crossing the line between opinion and mindless demand(sterotyping of shows).
Are you sure you've been reading my posts? Where exactly did I say I had a problem with humor? In fact, I distinctly gave examples of parts I found amusing in the series, and said I wish the series would stick to that sort of humor. This series benefits from a sort of low key, observational humor, not zany slapstick or whacky characters.
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Old 2006-01-31, 02:56   Link #438
Eclipze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
1. It relies too much on stereotyping supporting characters, making them uninteresting and, at worst, VERY annoying. Whenever Asuta shows up in the manga, I flip to the next page because I don't want to see yet another "LOLOLOLOLOL My best friend has boobs and I totally wanna mack on her now, so let me go into a horribly generic shounen fantasy sequence!111!"
Just add "to me" at certain ends of the sentences, and it would be perfect examples of "opinion".

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
2. The jokes aren't funny the first time, yet the author keeps on repeating them over and over. As I said in the first point, I actually begin to skip pages when certain characters show up because they're so incredibly irritating and I know they will have absolutely NO impact on the plot.
Excuse me, but since when were ALL the parts of an anime or any show required to have impact on the plot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
3. It is not particularly original, and other series have done it much better and funnier, so why even bother? Why not stick to what makes the show interesting instead of feeling like it has to be a comedy?
I think the better word is "not creative". Mainly because everything we see can be considered unoriginal. Ie. It has been done before, be it 1 year ago, or 100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musuka
4. It doesn't really even fit with the core of the series. Does this series want to be a gentle love triangle between three girls and an amusing exploration of gender issues, or a ka-razy gender-bender comedy filled with ka-razy characters and ka-razy situations? I'll take the former, please.
What exactly is the core of the series? And MUST everything fit in with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
Well, of course not. But it would certain help to make the side character fleshened out if they got their own parts in the drama. Having a bunch of one-note characters does nothing for the series and only makes it tiresome after they've all done their little shtick once or twice per episode.
Besides the fact that this is not a drama anime, thats what side characters do: Be side characters. Or in other words, they are used as plot-devices at some point to progress a certain event/development of the main characters.

Plus, the main "drama" aspect of Kashimashi is between Hazumu, Tomari and Yasuna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
Are you sure you've been reading my posts? Where exactly did I say I had a problem with humor? In fact, I distinctly gave examples of parts I found amusing in the series, and said I wish the series would stick to that sort of humor. This series benefits from a sort of low key, observational humor, not zany slapstick or whacky characters.
Sorry, need I say that perceptions arent the most accurate form of a medium?

I got confused by this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
Well, I know they're not going anywhere, but frankly, this series' humor is so bad, I'd prefer it to just try and play it straight.
By "play it straight", I had thought you meant that they should remove comedic parts altogether. My bad.
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Old 2006-01-31, 05:52   Link #439
Sian
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the comidy part is used to polarizing the drama to get it to stand out more clearly ... yes ... it is slight steriotypic, but that is the point as well to use it as said before to polarize the rather uncommon plot
and no ... Asuta aren't the way that you says ... he is just that unlucky that he can't control his feelings towards a moé girl (who can btw?) ... and thats even though he trieds repeatably to cold himself down by almost chanting "she was a male and my best friend, she was a male and my best friend" (the scene on the roof where he starts banging his head repeatly into the fence)
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Old 2006-01-31, 11:26   Link #440
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Just add "to me" at certain ends of the sentences, and it would be perfect examples of "opinion".
I shouldn't have to add "to me" in order to make you understand that something is my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Excuse me, but since when were ALL the parts of an anime or any show required to have impact on the plot?
If the show is well put together, all things should either tie into the plot or theme of the show. The teacher going on and on about her pitiful lovelife adds nothing, and neither do Asuta's fantasies if nothing is ever going to come of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
What exactly is the core of the series? And MUST everything fit in with it?
I already explained what I think the core of the series is. And, yes, everything MUST fit in with it, otherwise you have huge chunks of a show that are a complete waste of time. Look, even if Asuta's obnoxious daydreams had an impact on Hazumu, they wouldn't be a complete waste. But they don't, and they're stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Besides the fact that this is not a drama anime, thats what side characters do: Be side characters. Or in other words, they are used as plot-devices at some point to progress a certain event/development of the main characters.
And none of them are doing that. Again, they don't have any impact on the main plot whatsoever, so they're just taking up space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze
Plus, the main "drama" aspect of Kashimashi is between Hazumu, Tomari and Yasuna.
And why can't the other characters have their own spot in the drama to connect them to the plot? Why must some side characters be regulated solely to "lame comic relief"?
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