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Old 2013-02-08, 01:56   Link #941
Klashikari
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If you are talking about the jp BD/DVD, no, they aren't.
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Old 2013-02-08, 01:56   Link #942
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yeah Japan has tons of ways for people to see anime, but who bothers to stay up that late to watch late night TV? These sorts of practices make sure that anime is a smaller circle of people and it is weird for an entire industry to depend on this small group with little intention of trying to move away from it IMO.
The small group is willing to pay outrageous prices that would never fly with a mass market. A typical anime series is going to cost people more money then the Playstation 4 will @ launch later this year... Collecting Nichijou would cost you more compared to buying a massively overpriced Ps3 + a few games at launch.

You could say it's high risk high reward but when a few companies get a lot or "rewards" which wipe out the failures while making massive bank... why would they change this formula up?

Quote:
Of course this isn't really a provable claim, but I have also had a harder time getting people into anime lately with the sorts of shows that keep coming out. Strangely, enough. It's all anecdotal, but hey that speaks to me.
And why do you have to try and get these people into anime with shows that are coming out lately? If not a single episode of anime came out after today I doubt I would ever have the time to watch everything I was interested in catching up on or checking out. What's the matter with introducing them to stuff like Eva, Bebop and the Memories OVAs of Kenshin?
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Old 2013-02-08, 01:57   Link #943
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
I think it's a bit unfair to say that, given how producers and studios gladly accepted foreign investment and brought to life a whole bunch of anime that were designed to be more palatable to western audiences. This is what caused the anime bubble of mid to late 2000s. I think studios keep on trying to evolve. For example, Production I.G isn't thinking only of the domestic "anime" market, they basically expanded over to Canada to work on animation projects for movies and other properties. The projects may not be the anime we know and love, but this is one way to survive, and from that other anime projects might get funded. I'd also love if Japan did more to move away from the maniac late-night crowd, but it's not like they're not trying. It's just hard.
Yeah that's why I said it wouldn't make sense to focus on us. But what about the more mainstream Japanese audience?

My bigger overall point is that if anime continues to be dependent on a small group of people paying for BD's that cost like $500, they're never going to get anywhere. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The small group is willing to pay outrageous prices that would never fly with a mass market. A typical anime series is going to cost people more money then the Playstation 4 will @ launch later this year... Collecting Nichijou would cost you more compared to buying a massively overpriced Ps3 + a few games at launch.

You could say it's high risk high reward but when a few companies get a lot or "rewards" which wipe out the failures while making massive bank... why would they change this formula up?
If they are content with the status quo then there is no reason. I'm just saying I doubt they can ever accomplish much more than the status quo if they leave it as is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
And why do you have to try and get these people into anime with shows that are coming out lately? If not a single episode of anime came out after today I doubt I would ever have the time to watch everything I was interested in catching up on or checking out. What's the matter with introducing them to stuff like Eva, Bebop and the Memories OVAs of Kenshin?
It's just me reflecting on my own personal experience in trying to introduce people to anime. There's nothing wrong with using older anime, that's what I end up having to do... But it just reflects to me how anime has become more "insular" from my POV, which was my point. It's just anecdotal of course, so it doesn't prove anything.
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Old 2013-02-08, 02:51   Link #944
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Anime will not be mainstream, ever. $ at Hollywood/TV prices won't cut it
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Old 2013-02-09, 05:09   Link #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yeah that's why I said it wouldn't make sense to focus on us. But what about the more mainstream Japanese audience?
There are shows that are targeted at the mainstream Japanese audience right now. But chances are that either a) you've never heard of them, and/or b) you have no interest in watching them. I mean, heck, how much mainstream Japanese entertainment are you interested in in general? I suspect probably not very much. More mainstream anime productions may theoretically result in anime expanding out of the niche you perceive, but that doesn't by any means guarantee they will make more shows that will interest you (or will show that much more creativity in the process).

Anime has been around in Japan for many decades now. I don't think they're all of a sudden going to discover that there's this giant hidden market for mature, serious, creative anime that has been totally unexploited so far and is just begging to throw them money if only the price was more reasonable. You have to have some faith that the thousands of producers, market researchers, publishers, and other companies and staff involved in the entertainment business, often in competition with each other to find the new thing, have already considered and tried countless angles. It's not like they're going to read this thread and say "oh shit, why didn't we ever think of that?!" They're well aware of the realities of their market, and are experimenting all the time in ways large and small to see if they can capitalize on any new trends. You'd like to see them move towards a market that all signs suggest does not even exist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
My bigger overall point is that if anime continues to be dependent on a small group of people paying for BD's that cost like $500, they're never going to get anywhere. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you obviously. [...] If they are content with the status quo then there is no reason [to change the formula].
To I guess reiterate the point above, the industry is composed generally of companies seeking to maximize their profits, so I think we can safely assume that it's not "contentment" that has brought them here, but necessity. I don't think we can assume that the "mass market" will ever be interested in anime on any sort of significant scale, and it's not a matter of "not trying hard enough".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well there are lot of trends we could analyze, but I was earlier trying to get at that I thought the US consumer is much more "pragmatic" than the Japanese customer. In the sense that a US consumer isn't going to throw away a ton of money to purchase anime, there are other ways we can decide to spend our money in a more practical manner.
I don't think the "US consumer" vs. "Japanese consumer" really has much to do with it. Japan has a more visible market of hardcore collectors with a much more organized system of "exploiting" them (particularly when it comes to anime), but the collector mentality is the same around the world. Collectors spend lots of money on things that other people deem worthless or unnecessary. Owning entertainment on physical media is increasingly something only collectors want or need to do, and Japan's market merely recognizes this fact.

That aside, are you really arguing that Americans consumers on the whole are more "discerning" than Japanese consumers on the whole? On what do you base this claim other than the price of anime?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The huge licensing fees that were being charged were a main problem because it basically ensured the demise of oversea markets. Even at the prices back then, anime was too expensive for your typical US consumer. There was no way to make up the huge cost sink of bringing the anime over here.
I still think your point still doesn't follow. Just how cheap does anime have to be before "your typical US consumer" considers it worth buying? And, at those prices, is it even possible to make a profit when you consider that this is one of your key and only revenue sources? And if anime was selling more volume and making more money when the prices were higher, how does this prove it being "too expensive for your typical US consumer" was ever the real problem? Licensing fees didn't start that high; they only rose because the market was doing so well and showed signs of rapid growth. The collapse wasn't because prices were high, but because the industry collapsed under the weight of its over-inflated valuation (just like the .com bubble) and couldn't handle the massive returns and bankruptcy of a major distributor (among other things).


In the end, as I said above, I think there's just a limit to anime's potential reach. There are already so many other forms of entertainment out there competing for people's time and resources, and anime is just one of many. Getting people to care for this foreign media will always be a challenge, just like it's hard to get people to care for foreign film even though some of it is really amazing and arguably better than popular domestic fare.
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Old 2013-02-09, 15:11   Link #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Licensing fees didn't start that high; they only rose because the market was doing so well and showed signs of rapid growth. The collapse wasn't because prices were high, but because the industry collapsed under the weight of its over-inflated valuation (just like the .com bubble) and couldn't handle the massive returns and bankruptcy of a major distributor (among other things).
Plus the problem was created by licensees in the first place. Japanese producers didn't ask for such sums of cash; rather, American distributors offered that much and engaged in bidding wars to try and kill off the competition (i.e. lose money on the initial deals and make it back later once they have a chokehold on a rapidly growing market). This created the illusion of a burgeoning market, which drove prices up.

Many western-oriented shows would never have been approved had the distributors not played such a dangerous (and arguably fraudulent) game.
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Old 2013-02-09, 15:28   Link #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Yeah that's why I said it wouldn't make sense to focus on us. But what about the more mainstream Japanese audience?
As rf points out, there is a mainstream anime market. From the most recent report in the ratings thread:

19.6%(10.9%) 01/06 (Sun) 6:30pm-7:00pm Fuji TV Sazae-san
13.1%(*9.1%) 01/06 (Sun) 6:00pm-6:30pm Fuji TV Chibi Maruko-chan
*9.6%(*4.4%) 01/05 (Sat) 6:00pm-6:30pm NTV Detective Conan
*7.2%(--.-%) 01/06 (Sun) 9:30am-10:00am Fuji TV One Piece

One in every five Japanese households was watching Sazae-san on Sunday, January 6th. Just how much more "mainstream" can you get?

In comparison, picking a random week in December in the US, the biggest Sunday night draw that week was Sunday Night Football with a 9.4% household rating; The Simpsons, arguably one of the most mainstream cartoon shows drew a 2.9. The other Fox cartoons, Family Guy and American Dad, had ratings in the low threes.

The American networks would sell their grandmothers to get ratings as high as Sazae-San. It's harder to find household ratings for US shows, because there is more emphasis in the reporting on key demographic groups like persons or women 18-49. This report for the week ending January 20th showed CBS "winning" that week with an average rating of 9.4. The top-rated show that week, NCIS, was watched in 14.2% of households.
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Old 2013-03-27, 00:22   Link #948
AbZeroNow
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Last week had a very high bar in the BDs, but these sales figures are interesting:
From MAL (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=576081)
Blu-ray
*1, 81,782 81,782 MS Gundam UC vol.6 - limited edition
*2, 53,429 53,429 Lyrical Nanoha: The Movie 2nd As - deluxe limited edition
*3, 23,528 23,528 Girls und Panzer vol.3
*4, 21,848 21,848 MS Gundam UC vol.6 - regular edition
*6, 18,429 18,429 Love Live! School Idol Project vol.1
*7, 17,145 17,145 Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon II vol.7
*8, 10,933 10,933 Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! vol.4
*9, 10,393 10,393 Lyrical Nanoha: The Movie 2nd As - limited edition
10, *9,242 *9,242 Kuroko no Basket vol.9
15, *5,514 *5,514 Psycho-Pass vol.4
18, *4,124 *4,124 Smile Precure! Movie
20, *4,065 *4,065 MS Gundam Seed C.E.73: Stargazer BD Box
(cut-off 4,065)

DVD
*1, 44,035 *,*44,035 MS Gundam UC vol.6
*2, 10,511 *,*10,511 Kuroko no Basket vol.9
*3, *8,730 *,**8,730 Lyrical Nanoha: The Movie 2nd As - deluxe limited edition
*4, *3,226 *,**3,226 Smile Precure! Movie
*5, *2,816 *,**2,816 One Piece: Episode of Luffy - limited edition
*6, *2,349 *,**2,349 Lyrical Nanoha: The Movie 2nd As - limited edition
*7, *2,066 *,*38,220 Ookami Kodomo no Ame to Yuki
*8, *1,981 *,**1,981 Warauseeru Suman DVD Box
*9, *1,942 *,**1,941 Zettai Karen Children: The Unlimited vol.1
10, *1,780 *,**1,780 Zip! Ohayou Ninjatai Gachaman Berg-Katze-hen
11, *1,522 *,**1,522 Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! vol.4
12, *1,476 *,**1,476 Psycho-Pass vol.4
13, *1,447 *,**1,447 Zip! Ohayou Ninjatai Gachaman Oowashinoken-hen
14, *1,402 *,**1,402 Zip! Ohayou Ninjatai Gachaman Anderson-chouken-hen
15, *1,300 *,**1,300 Alice Tantei Kyoku vol.2
16, *1,286 *,**1,286 Kamisama Hajimemashita vol.4
17, *1,232 *,**1,232 Lyrical Nanoha: The Movie 2nd As - regular edition
18, *1,169 *,**1,169 Girls und Panzer vol.3
19, **,888 *,***,888 Shirokuma Cafe vol.9
20, **,860 *,***,860 Hakkenden vol.1
21, **,718 *,**5,117 Aikatsu vol.1
22, **,715 *,***,715 Ai Mai Mii vol.1
24, **,707 1,183,291 Tonari no Totoro
25, **,681 *,**9,415 Initial-D Fifth Stage vol.3
26, **,662 *,***,662 Hiiro no Kakera 2nd season vol.3
27, **,657 *,***,657 One Piece: Episode of Luffy - regular edition
29, **,617 *,***,617 Tamako Market vol.1
(cut-off 613)


I figured Love Live! would do well but nearly 20k is fantastic for that. GaruPan is still going strong with vol 3 doing 23k.

Wow at Tamako Market's BD failing to rank(so we know less than 4k BD) and only 671 DVDs.
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Old 2013-03-27, 02:46   Link #949
Marcus H.
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I was terribly disappointed that Maoyuu also didn't make it.
Looks like there are many who did not like the approach ARMS made in the anime series.

In other news, Sunrise's Studio 8 (assuming that they are the ones handling Love Live) is going strong, holy cow. Well, Sunrise is really raking in the dough with Unicorn and three others getting impressive sales.
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Old 2013-03-27, 03:27   Link #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I was terribly disappointed that Maoyuu also didn't make it.
Looks like there are many who did not like the approach ARMS made in the anime series.

In other news, Sunrise's Studio 8 (assuming that they are the ones handling Love Live) is going strong, holy cow. Well, Sunrise is really raking in the dough with Unicorn and three others getting impressive sales.
Tamaki and Maoyuu will probably be in the full list that will be out sometime this week, but yeah super huge threshold you have to thank Nanoha and Gundam movies for that
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Old 2013-04-03, 00:30   Link #951
AbZeroNow
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From MAL(http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=579667)

2013 Winter Preliminary First Volume Sales
Key: Total - # Weeks Charted - Title - Format - Release Date

22,404 *2 Love Live! School Idol Project [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/22
------ 10,000 Line ------
*8,513 *1 Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai NEXT [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
*7,580 *1 Vividred Operation [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
*7,562 *3 Ore no Kanojo to Osananajimi ga Shuraba Sugiru [DVD+BD]: 2013/02/27
*4,281 *1 Zettai Karen Children: The Unlimited - Hyoubu Kyousuke [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/20
*4,137 *1 Tamako Market [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/20
*2,902 *1 Amnesia [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
---- Manabi Line (2,899) ----
*2,773 *2 GJ-bu [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/06
*2,710 *1 Maoyuu Maou Yuusha [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/20
*2,380 *1 Hakkenden: Touhou Hakken Ibun [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/22
*2,018 *1 D.C.III ~Da Capo III~ [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/20
*1,398 *1 Cuticle Tantei Inaba [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
**,715 *1 Ai Mai Mii [DVD]: 2013/03/22

(Not ranked; need full week data later this week)
**,*** ** AKB0048 Next Stage [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/27
**,*** ** Minami-ke Tadaima [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
**,*** ** Puchimas! -Petit iDOLM@STER- [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
**,*** ** Sasami-san@Ganbaranai [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
**,*** ** Senran Kagura [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/27
**,*** ** gdgd Fairies 2 [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/28
**,*** ** Mondaiji-tachi ga Isekai kara Kuru-sou desu yo? [DVD+BD]: 2012/03/29

Love Live is clearly the best selling anime of this season. Haganai Next, Vividred and Oreshura all have done well too.
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Old 2013-04-03, 00:37   Link #952
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Well, Tamako Market wasn't such a huge dud (though it's still low).
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Old 2013-04-03, 01:43   Link #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbZeroNow View Post
*4,281 *1 Zettai Karen Children: The Unlimited - Hyoubu Kyousuke [DVD+BD]: 2013/03/20
Comparing to this data, the 1st volume of 'The Unlimited' actually sold more than the 1st vol. of TWGOK, which is one of Manglobe's best-sellers. That's a good sign for them to escape their 'curse', even though the sales are expected to go down after vol. 1. Considering how 'The Unlimited' is quite underrated outside Japan, seeing it overtake other Winter 2013 anime makes me feel happy for Manglobe. (Fujoshi have good pull on sales, I guess.)

Hoping for Maoyuu to sell more.
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Old 2013-04-03, 02:39   Link #954
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I'm disappointed Tadaima didn't make the threshold for V.1 - I suspect it came pretty close. Hopefully it will hit 4K combined.
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Old 2013-04-03, 14:15   Link #955
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
In other news, Sunrise's Studio 8 (assuming that they are the ones handling Love Live) is going strong, holy cow. Well, Sunrise is really raking in the dough with Unicorn and three others getting impressive sales.
Studio 8 are definitely



so hot right now!

And yes Love Live was a Studio 8 project, I think Kunagisa was saying it had the full attention of Studio 8 as opposed to other projects.... (they had Horizon 2, Accel World and that movie being worked on at the same time)
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Old 2013-04-15, 07:25   Link #956
Marcus H.
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This season, J.C. Staff steals two of the top five spots with a sweet debut for Henneko!

http://www27392u.sakura.ne.jp/index_news.cgi

Legend:
***,*10位/***,*10位 - Previous Rank/Current Rank
★ - Symbol for Rank Changes (★ = up, ◎ = no change, ○ = down)
(**1,090 pt) - Points accumulated
[*,*21予約] - Points from NicoNico preorders

***,*10位/***,*10位 ★ (**1,090 pt) [*,*21予約] 13/07/24 13/04 Toaru Kagaku no Railgun S
***,*25位/***,*25位 ◎ (**1,218 pt) [*,*27予約] 13/07/26 13/04 Suisei no Gargantia
***,*28位/***,*29位 ★ (**1,912 pt) [*,185予約] 13/07/17 13/04 Shingeki no Kyojin
***,*32位/***,*35位 ★ (---,--- pt) [*,**0予約] 13/06/26 13/04 Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko
***,*47位/***,*45位 ★ (**2,439 pt) [*,*28予約] 13/06/19 13/04 Oreimo S2
***,*83位/***,*75位 ★ (***,649 pt) [*,*31予約] 13/05/31 13/04 Nyaruko-san W
***,109位/***,101位 ○ (***,965 pt) [*,*38予約] 13/07/17 13/04 Shingeki no Kyojin [DVD]
***,131位/***,120位 ★ (***,404 pt) [*,*23予約] 13/07/03 13/04 Hataraku no Maou-sama!
***,135位/***,134位 ★ (***,244 pt) [*,*11予約] 13/06/26 13/04 Namiuchigiwa no Muromi-san
***,139位/***,136位 ★ (**1,111 pt) [*,*18予約] 13/06/05 13/04 Asazel-san
***,152位/***,161位 ★ (**1,481 pt) [*,*14予約] 13/06/28 13/04 Date A Live
***,186位/***,201位 ★ (***,233 pt) [*,**0予約] 13/06/26 13/04 RomCom SNAFU/Yahari
***,268位/***,264位 ○ (***,883 pt) [*,**1予約] 13/05/28 13/04 Karneval [DVD]
***,289位/***,263位 ★ (***,604 pt) [*,**8予約] 13/06/19 13/04 Devil Survivor 2
***,290位/***,286位 ★ (***,213 pt) [*,**3予約] 13/06/19 13/04 Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge
***,355位/***,355位 ★ (***,445 pt) [*,**1予約] 13/06/26 13/04 Hyakka Ryouran Samurai Bride
***,484位/***,489位 ★ (***,125 pt) [*,**6予約] 13/05/29 13/04 Yuyushiki
***,545位/***,561位 ★ (***,595 pt) [*,**5予約] 13/05/28 13/04 Karneval
***,707位/***,651位 ★ (***,214 pt) [*,**2予約] 13/06/28 13/04 Photo Kano
***,786位/***,859位 ★ (***,211 pt) [*,**8予約] 13/06/21 13/04 Majestic Prince
**1,135位/**1,048位 ★ (***,590 pt) [*,**1予約] 13/06/28 13/04 Red Data Girl
**1,329位/**1,242位 ★ (***,112 pt) [*,**0予約] 13/08/07 13/04 Aiura
**3,211位/**3,077位 ★ (***,131 pt) [*,**7予約] 13/06/26 13/04 Aku no Hana
**5,772位/**5,236位 ★ (***,*18 pt) [*,**0予約] 13/06/21 13/04 Arata Kangatari
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Old 2013-04-15, 15:19   Link #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
This season, J.C. Staff steals two of the top five spots with a sweet debut for Henneko!

http://www27392u.sakura.ne.jp/index_news.cgi
Well, just to be clear to others who don't know, what you're reporting is just the latest pre-ordering trends on Amazon. Amazon pre-orders can be cancelled at any time. Also Henneko only became available to order within the last day, so it's too early to draw any conclusions. However, I do expect both shows to do well (and the decision to include Kantoku bedsheets with each volume of Henneko will certainly help).
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Old 2013-04-16, 09:57   Link #958
asaqe
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Aku no Hana failing is a sad state for animation. Fractale, Shin Sekai Yori and now Aku No Hana. No country for artistic anime.
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Old 2013-04-16, 10:06   Link #959
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Aku no Hana failing is a sad state for animation. Fractale, Shin Sekai Yori and now Aku No Hana. No country for artistic anime.
Yet they keep producing them. How crazy is that?!
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Old 2013-04-16, 10:32   Link #960
Kanon
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Fractale ( ) and Aku no Ana being artistic anime is very debatable. I would never ever think of putting them in the same bag as Shin Sekai Yori.

Aku no Hana's failure was completely expected and not all that undeserved imo. Bad rotoscoping is not art.
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