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Old 2013-04-17, 22:56   Link #6441
Rising Dragon
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The politics wouldn't let them get away with that, though. Others could still claim that they were in violation of the Junius Treaty by merely possessing the Gundam.
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Old 2013-04-17, 23:00   Link #6442
Aquaman OS
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Considering nobody ever says anything about Freedom being in violation of the treaty when it first pops up (probably a good 20 eps before Durandal himself starts ignoring it) maybe it wasn't technically a violation to have it, since the Orb nation never actively used it.
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Old 2013-04-17, 23:05   Link #6443
Rising Dragon
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By the time the Freedom finally showed up, the treaty had been violated to hell and back. Calling them out on it wouldn't have done much good at that point.
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Old 2013-04-17, 23:08   Link #6444
Aquaman OS
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Would it really? Zaft had yet to violate it when Angel Down was starting, but at no point was them using an illegally powered Mobile Suit part of their list of crimes, despite it being a potential nail in the coffin that Athrun wouldn't be able to ignore.
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Old 2013-04-17, 23:10   Link #6445
Rising Dragon
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Yeah, still wouldn't have done any good. The damage had already been done; treaty violated, Blue Cosmos still operating, so on and so forth. The point I've been making is that overall? The Junius Treaty was useless.
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Old 2013-04-18, 02:36   Link #6446
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
By the time the Freedom finally showed up, the treaty had been violated to hell and back. Calling them out on it wouldn't have done much good at that point.
This is basically it. Whether or not Orb could've been found in violation of the treaty just by having the Freedom within its territory is ultimately a non-issue as the Freedom was never discovered prior to the second war.
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Old 2013-04-18, 03:53   Link #6447
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[QUOTE=Aquaman OS;4641209]Again, Eternal wasn't a Warship. It was a mobile base for Freedom Justice and Meteors. Which is why its very lightly armed with only a single beam cannon and few missile launchers (though it can use the Meteor's as makeshift cannons)

The Dom's were built in the factory though. That was shown. SF and IJ seemed to be built on the Eternal, since they were already on board when Eternal had to make an emergency break for it when Zaft found them. Although they could have used the factory resources and simply brought them over to the ship since it was right next door to the factory.

The meteor's however were already in place when Lacus first returned to Eternal mid Seed Destiny, before they were at the factory (which was located by an abandoned colony while Eternal was out in the middle

The SF and IJ were partially completed when Lacus and Co jacked them (presumably after the frame had been completed and the reactors installed), they only needed to finish it up

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But given Lacus resources its a possibility for the whole island to be a select facility.
And how would she be able to build a MILITARY FACILITY on ORB TERRITORY?

The construction was obviously contracted at some point, before or after the events of SEED is debatable though

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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
And what exactly would that power plant consist of exactly?
AN ARC REACTOR OBVIOUSLY


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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Concerning the Destiny, Legend, S. Freedom, and I.Justice's power plants. I was under the impression that a hyper deuterion reactor combined a nuclear fission reactor with a deuterion battery system. That's what the gundam wiki's said for the longest time. Here's the link http://gundam.wiki.com/wiki/Hyper-Deuterion_Nuclear_Reactor.
They also had the N-jammers, its impossible for any Nuclear tech to function without those

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Would it really? Zaft had yet to violate it when Angel Down was starting, but at no point was them using an illegally powered Mobile Suit part of their list of crimes, despite it being a potential nail in the coffin that Athrun wouldn't be able to ignore.
Uh last I checked the whole dang war started up again because "ZAFT" dropped Junius 7 onto earth, to hell with the treaty
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:11   Link #6448
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Besides, sharing ORB technology makes it easier for them to land a high paying job, especially as they aren't ZAFT citizens
Like i said traitors
So after what happened in 11/ in USA >>>if scientists leave USA to work on other country that USA enemy like North Korea (or could be enemy like China/Russia) and give them all USA secret weapon info for high salary what will that make them?

One word = traitors

ZAFT and Feds break the treaty for what they they believe their own country future benefit while Orb scientists break it for their own pocket benefit

Last edited by Gundamx; 2013-04-18 at 07:09.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:51   Link #6449
Destined_Fate
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Doesn't matter, the only one that cancharge them as Traitors is ORB as they did it willingly. Cagalli could have demanded they be returned and tried but that would only make ZAFT and ORB hate her. So she literally had no power or authority over what they had been doing at ZAFT. Especially since so many joined ZAFT and didn't return to ORB after the war ended.

Call them that all you like, doesn't change a thing.
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Old 2013-04-18, 08:36   Link #6450
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Doesn't matter, the only one that cancharge them as Traitors is ORB as they did it willingly. Cagalli could have demanded they be returned and tried but that would only make ZAFT and ORB hate her. So she literally had no power or authority over what they had been doing at ZAFT. Especially since so many joined ZAFT and didn't return to ORB after the war ended.

Call them that all you like, doesn't change a thing.
Yep they are traitors who sold out their own mother country willingly for money.
That's a fact you can't deny
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Old 2013-04-18, 09:15   Link #6451
kaito-kid
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ehmm.. When did any of this happen? ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT? ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??
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Old 2013-04-18, 10:30   Link #6452
Gundamx
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ehmm.. When did any of this happen? ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT? ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??
-ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT
In destiny first episode
(That why Cagalli was in PLANTs)

-ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??
No idea.
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Old 2013-04-18, 12:43   Link #6453
kaito-kid
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She was in PLANT to talk about the increasing militarization of ZAFT (the new Gundams and other prototypes) and the kind of effect it might have on the political climate. I didn't hear anything about any ORB scientists.. So again, what are you two talking about?
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Old 2013-04-18, 13:00   Link #6454
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Nope, Cagalli didn't even know about the new gundams until they started rampaging through armory one*. If you notice several mechanics refer to her as hime-sama and seem ashamed by the fact they're working for ZAFT. I'd suggest you rewatch the first episode if you don't remember it.

*Though it does raise the question of how the EA managed to find out in enough time to plan and execute a mission to capture them. Much less have traitors or infiltrators in place to help Stella, Auel, and Sting.
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Old 2013-04-18, 13:50   Link #6455
Gundamx
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EA was pressuring Cagalli to stop ZAFT from using ORB scientists
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:12   Link #6456
kaito-kid
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Originally Posted by S.Freedom View Post
Nope, Cagalli didn't even know about the new gundams until they started rampaging through armory one*. If you notice several mechanics refer to her as hime-sama and seem ashamed by the fact they're working for ZAFT. I'd suggest you rewatch the first episode if you don't remember it.
I guess I need to watch it again, I don't recall this.


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*Though it does raise the question of how the EA managed to find out in enough time to plan and execute a mission to capture them. Much less have traitors or infiltrators in place to help Stella, Auel, and Sting.
I don't think they were suposed to be a big secret. In Destiny Astray the main character (a photographer) visits the presentation of the new ZGMF-x models and this is before the armory one incident.

Spoiler for pic:
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:36   Link #6457
S.Freedom
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I suppose you have a point... It just seems odd to me that ZAFT would go out of it's way to announce something like new gundams. It's almost like they're asking for the EA to try something.

Though considering Durandal's end goal I wouldn't put it past him to release the info precisely because he wanted the EA to try something. There are just to many things happening in close proximity to each other for it to be one big coincidence imo.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:39   Link #6458
Destined_Fate
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Yep they are traitors who sold out their own mother country willingly for money.
That's a fact you can't deny
Your point? They'll never be punished for it anyway as ORB is the only one that can demand such a thing and they know better than that since it would be a PR Nightmare with ZAFT and the people of ORB who don't want to see their kin suffer any more just because they wanted to make a living elsewhere.

That and it would be way too expensive to put all of them on trial as ZAFT took in many of them.
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Old 2013-04-18, 16:20   Link #6459
S.Freedom
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Why would it be a PR nightmare to charge traitors as traitors?

I'd think it would be more of a nightmare not to charge them as traitors. As it would only cause others to think they'd get away with it. Or that it was ok to commit treason.

Nor are you addressing the fact it was illegal for ZAFT to be accepting there help in the first place.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:25   Link #6460
Skye629
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I dont see how Orb scientists helping ZAFT is a big deal, Orb and ZAFT never came into direct conflict until Destiny

And the closest thing to war between them during SEED was during the final battle where Orb units were part of the Three Ship Alliance, which was more or less a rogue group consisting of defectors from all sides led by the Clyne faction

ZAFT was never a true enemy of Orb until Chairman Zala decided shoot the earth with Genesis (endangering everything on earth in the process)
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