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Old 2013-04-19, 22:32   Link #27741
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Either way, it's another black eye (piling up with several others) for Islam because of such radicals ... I wonder if the likes of Cat Stevens and Cassius Clay are now feeling ashamed to be Muslim right now, considering how all of this crap has nothing to do with the religion they once knew.
Just like every damn religion in the world, and country for that matter.


Really, I don't get your one-sided view of things.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:36   Link #27742
NoemiChan
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All religions has radicals..... It depends if you will follow their ways or not.... the radical beliefs that is....
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:38   Link #27743
Kyuu
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In other news...

In case y'missed it:

Quote:
Ted Cruz, Bill Flores Asked For Federal Aid After Texas Explosion, But Voted Against Sandy Relief
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...?utm_hp_ref=tw

I'm sorry. But the proper response to their request is a middle finger.

Quote:
A pair of Republican lawmakers who voted against federal aid in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy are now looking for federal aid in the wake of the deadly explosion in West, Texas.

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz lambasted the Sandy Aid package, voting against the measure in January. Cruz issued a statement explaining that he voted against the aid because it included a number of spending measures that were not related to disaster relief, including "Smithsonian repairs, upgrades to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration airplanes, and more funding for Head Start."

However, in Washington Thursday, Cruz said that he was "working to ensure that all available resources are marshaled to deal with the horrific loss of life and suffering that we've seen" after an explosion at a fertilizer plant in Texas leveled the plant and nearby houses and business, claiming the lives of at least a dozen people and injuring hundreds more.
1) The site of the explosion had not be subject to Federal inspect in decades.
2) It "randomly" blows up.
3) It's more accurate to point at corporate neglect.

I have to ask: why should the public be liable for these damages? Sure, loss of life was involved; but it was long long preventable. So, pardon me. Sorry for the loss of life; but I cannot grant taxpayer sympathy here. Instead, put the tab it on the corporation, who messed this up.

Thank you. Have a nice day.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:39   Link #27744
Urzu 7
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Islamic extremism is out of control, though, and a lot in mainstream Islam do support it. People don't need to be Islamaphobes, but clearly there are some huge problems with the religion and extremism.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:44   Link #27745
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Islamic extremism is out of control, though, and a lot in mainstream Islam do support it. People don't need to be Islamaphobes, but clearly there are some huge problems with the religion and extremism.
True... that's what disappoints peaceful Muslims...
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:45   Link #27746
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Just like every damn religion in the world, and country for that matter.

Really, I don't get your one-sided view of things.
Hush, Sumeragi.

Any religion may have their share of radicals, but this particular religion as a whole has radicalized itself more than any other one in recent years. I mean: where are the voices of the more brilliant and peaceful minds in Islam that would come out and say enough is enough?

In other words, several people (by that, I'm throwing a shot at imams and other religious authorities) didn't do their job in maintaining some form of sanity against radicalism and other forms of abuse stemming from holy text misinterperetations. As much as catholic priests who interperet the Bible one way or the other before raping kids are not called out, the lack of action against abuse is as much of a crime than what those people do in the name of religion.
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Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2013-04-19 at 22:50. Reason: more than just "some"
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:48   Link #27747
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I would figure that the younger one was a radical Muslim, too. I mean, would he really be like "Aw heck, I'll carry out an act of terrorism with you!" over fraternal loyalty?
He probably agreed with the older brother's ideology, but "agree" doesn't necessarily mean that he was a true fanatical believer in the common sense that we typically associate with terrorists. It could easily have been his aniki inspiring him to action, with the radical religion more in the background. Think about how a lot of people join cults or are influenced into doing something - it's often not rational, but as a result of peer pressure.

The older brother, for his part, seems to have been truly, ideologically involved AFAIK. He may have been prone to aggressive behavior or thought and had a lot of pent-up anger and frustration. Perhaps his cultist group gave him a general answer and an outlet for those flaws, while he planned and carried out the action in relative isolation, having to use his brother rather than an ideological comrade as his accomplice. It would be different from, say, 9/11 (to give an extreme example), which was an evil Master Plan (TM) planned rationally and carried out by the entire organization as part of a greater crusade.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:49   Link #27748
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Hush, Sumeragi.

Any religion may have their share of radicals, but this particular religion as a whole has more radicalized itself than any other one in recent years. I mean: where are the voices of the more brilliant and peaceful minds in Islam that would come out and say enough is enough?

In other words, some people (by that, I'm throwing a shot at imams and other religious authorities) didn't do their job in maintaining some form of sanity against radicalism and other forms of abuse stemming from holy text misinterperetations. As much as catholic priests who interperet the Bible one way or the other before raping kids are not called out, the lack of action against abuse is as much of a crime than what those people do in the name of religion.
Or because geopolitically being in the lower part of the ladder radicalized people. I'll ask you think: You think Europe was colonized centuries ago and only got independence in the 20th century, we wouldn't have radical Christianity committing terrorist attacks on non-Christian countries?

You're blaming religion when you should be focusing the geopolitical system.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:56   Link #27749
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Any religion may have their share of radicals, but this particular religion as a whole has radicalized itself more than any other one in recent years. I mean: where are the voices of the more brilliant and peaceful minds in Islam that would come out and say enough is enough?

In other words, some people (by that, I'm throwing a shot at imams and other religious authorities) didn't do their job in maintaining some form of sanity against radicalism and other forms of abuse stemming from holy text misinterperetations. As much as catholic priests who interperet the Bible one way or the other before raping kids are not called out, the lack of action against abuse is as much of a crime than what those people do in the name of religion.
You think that the sane Muslims aren't criticizing these people? You think that most Muslims don't think the radicals are a bunch of loonies? They are speaking out - one just doesn't hear about it as much because there's no news like bad news so instead of hearing this or that imam reminding his people to be tolerant, we hear about how the Boston bomber was in a jihadist cult. Of course the average person's view of Islam will be tainted.

The reason why terrorists of the Muslim sort are more plentiful is probably mostly because those areas of the world are poor and unstable, not because of their religion, which is pretty much the Middle eastern variant of Christianity which is a modernized variant (expansion pack, if you will) of Judaism.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:56   Link #27750
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post

In other words, several people (by that, I'm throwing a shot at imams and other religious authorities) didn't do their job in maintaining some form of sanity against radicalism and other forms of abuse stemming from holy text misinterperetations. As much as catholic priests who interperet the Bible one way or the other before raping kids are not called out, the lack of action against abuse is as much of a crime than what those people do in the name of religion.
Imams are humans also fear of their lives.... Imams are being killed as well by terrorist....

Radicalism in Islam is not due to religion solely but of culture as well. Most radicals came from war torn areas.... Middle east etc.

The only problem with radicals is they lack common sense. The Crusade is over...
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:23   Link #27751
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You're blaming religion when you should be focusing the geopolitical system.
The geopolitical system is just a bollocks excuse to explain a lack of clevernesss/intelligence or a lack of will at some place where it would be very helpful. Israel didn't exist before 1948 and Jews living there were mostly in the lower part of the ladder under Christians (the English) and Muslims (dominant religion in the region since the Crusades). I don't get your point at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
You think that the sane Muslims aren't criticizing these people? You think that most Muslims don't think the radicals are a bunch of loonies? They are speaking out - one just doesn't hear about it as much because there's no news like bad news so instead of hearing this or that imam reminding his people to be tolerant, we hear about how the Boston bomber was in a jihadist cult. Of course the average person's view of Islam will be tainted.

The reason why terrorists of the Muslim sort are more plentiful is probably mostly because those areas of the world are poor and unstable, not because of their religion, which is pretty much the Middle eastern variant of Christianity which is a modernized variant (expansion pack, if you will) of Judaism.
Then the moderates have to try speaking out again and again. However, I reckon it will require more than words; it will require concrete and significant actions from sane Muslims who are fed up with radicals. The line of supply (I mean moral and manpower support) for the radicals has to be cut somehow.

I've seen plenty of documentaries about Northern Ireland, about how poor and unstable things were with crying lack of jobs and severe bigotry. The average Northern Irish didn't receive as much education as they should and it helped the IRA recruiting people for a while. However at some point, a vast majority of Catholic families ended up disowning any son or daughter who'd be known to have joined the IRA (despite all intimidation tactics by the IRA). To some serious extent, it helped reducing the number of new radicals; that's exactly what I wish to see more often from Muslim families in the Middle East. Bar perhaps for Western culture, I can hardly see any other culture where it would not hurt a person very badly if he/she risks being disowned by his/her own family.
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Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2013-04-19 at 23:34.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:30   Link #27752
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
The geopolitical system is just a bollocks excuse to explain a lack of clevernesss/intelligence or a lack of will at some place where it would be very helpful.
If this isn't the worst kind of bigoted/racist comment around, I don't know what is.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:36   Link #27753
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
If this isn't the worst kind of bigoted/racist comment around, I don't know what is.
It just shows how you're the only close-minded person picking fights with everyone here.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:37   Link #27754
Urzu 7
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Maybe he meant that in regards to Imams and their trying to decrease extremism. Perhaps not saying Muslims aren't clever or smart, but a shot at certain people in certain roles, like how we can say many of our American politicians aren't displaying a lot of cleverness and intelligence when it comes to them sorting out issues and working through problems.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:39   Link #27755
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
It just shows how you're the only close-minded person picking fights with everyone here.
Maybe in your own provincial mindset. It is after all the people's fault for having to fight against dictatorial governments supported by oil and the First World, isn't it?
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:40   Link #27756
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Maybe he meant that in regards to Imams and their trying to decrease extremism. Perhaps not saying Muslims aren't clever or smart, but a shot at certain people in certain roles, like how we can say many of our American politicians are displaying a lot of cleverness and intelligence when it comes to them sorting out issues and working through problems.
There you go.

When the elite is not doing their job, they must take the blame. It's simple as that. We spend days to criticize our politicians and sometimes religious authorities for bad things, why? Because there are supposed to be leaders who lead out of problems, nothing less.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:42   Link #27757
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
There you go.

When the elite is not doing their job, they must take the blame. It's simple as that. We spend days to criticize our politicians and sometimes religious authorities for bad things, why? Because there are supposed to be leaders who lead out of problems, nothing less.

By the way, that is supposed to read "like how we can say many of our American politicians aren't displaying a lot of cleverness and intelligence".
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:44   Link #27758
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
By the way, that is supposed to read "like how we can say many of our American politicians aren't displaying a lot of cleverness and intelligence
Right now, a number of them also encounter issues in cleverness and intelligence indeed.

edit: I wonder how long it will take before the FBI will get everything out of M. Tsaraev on how he and his brother planned the bombings, who gave them that advice, how they got materials, etc.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:44   Link #27759
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
The geopolitical system is just a bollocks excuse to explain a lack of clevernesss/intelligence or a lack of will at some place where it would be very helpful. Israel didn't exist before 1948 and Jews living there were mostly in the lower part of the ladder under Christians (the English) and Muslims (dominant religion in the region since the Crusades). I don't get your point at all.
This is the argument of modern minority in America, which is used to put down other minorities. It is like saying "Why can't these other people be like these other, they must be lazy bums" and ignore the political, economical, and other problems that are not their fault.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:49   Link #27760
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
This is the argument of modern minority in America, which is used to put down other minorities. It is like saying "Why can't these other people be like these other, they must be lazy bums" and ignore the political, economical, and other problems that are not their fault.
I kind of know what you are talking about. Do you have any examples so we could better understand your point? I'm a bit confused about you saying "This is what some minorities say to other minorities".
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