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Old 2006-01-31, 21:20   Link #1
Catgirls
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The Role Of Gender In Kashimashi and How It Affects Relationships

Since gender and gender change is key to this story, this thread is available for in depth discussion concerning gender or the impact a gender change has on existing relationships. We know that there are at least three key relationships that will change because of what happened to Hazumu in the first episode:

- Hazumu's relationship with him/herself
- Hazumu's relationship with Yasuna
- Hazumu's relationship with Tomari

I personally think those three are the most significant. Obviously all of Hazumu's relationships will change to some degree (mother & father, school mates, male friends). I personally feel Tomari has to undergo the most major change out of the three (childhood memories, gender, society, etc). Hazumu, thus far, seems very much a peace with his new gender. Yasuna...well...

Last edited by Catgirls; 2006-01-31 at 21:47.
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Old 2006-01-31, 21:35   Link #2
Millenia
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There is a G-A-P
Tiz true its a sex change but on a much larger scale than a 'cut and tuck'
To describe the change in Kashimashi I think the word 'Pure' is perfect for it.
Hazumu = Full transformation down to the cellular level which bring the word 'Pure/Perfect' to its description.

But as for real life 'cut and tucks' there is nothing Pure or perfect about it...
You may hormonal pills and have 'it' chopped off and 'something' added to the chest, but that dont realy say your female now
Its like a mask


Hazumu has had a perfect transformation.
She is Pure / Perfect
You cant argue with that.


As for me I would still love and desire Hazumu after the change, thats the way I am.
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Old 2006-02-01, 03:14   Link #3
Gladi
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Hazumu- shows great fluidity of gender identity. Heck, it looks like she is the one person least worried about it!

Tomari- Is it that much change? There are other components to what we are beside our sex and gender. Societal roles also play important part in perception, both of people around us and our own. This is something that has changed the least, if at all. While there is exagaration for comedic efect. The roles that Hazumu played before transformation were female. (What was I trying to say? Please?)

Yasuna- without manga spoilers. I think there is great change here in hope of possesing something she never had.
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Old 2006-02-01, 04:31   Link #4
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Hazumu is very gender dysphoric at the beginning of the show. He isn't what one would consider a very masculine male, nor does his behaviour support his physical sex. Other than his attraction to Yasuna, we're not given any indication that he considers himself a boy.

Actually, based on his behavior and his wishes when the aliens crash into him, I feel that he doubted his gender prior to his change. His wish to become more manly sounds, to me, like a plea to "the heavens" for help in realizing his gender identity.
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Old 2006-02-01, 04:55   Link #5
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true Kyaa ... the plea to 'higher beings' (pun interned) shows that he is in doubt about if he should be a boy/man or rather a girl ... he may be a boy of body at that point but there is nothing that proves him a boy by mind ... rather neutral between the genders or even a slight tip towards girl by mind

and Tomari is without doubt the one of his intimidate friendship range that have most issues about it ... okay ... Asuta also have his fair share of issues about falling in love with his ealier best friend
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Old 2006-02-01, 05:06   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwisher
true Kyaa ... the plea to 'higher beings' (pun interned) shows that he is in doubt about if he should be a boy/man or rather a girl ... he may be a boy of body at that point but there is nothing that proves him a boy by mind ... rather neutral between the genders or even a slight tip towards girl by mind

and Tomari is without doubt the one of his intimidate friendship range that have most issues about it ... okay ... Asuta also have his fair share of issues about falling in love with his ealier best friend
Tomari is fun too. She's a tomboy, which is, imho, the unfair acceptable blurring of gender roles. If girls can act like boys and it is OK, why can't boys do the same? She's got the whole protector thing too, the boy to Hazumu-kun's girl.

I feel for Asuta. He's got it hard, no pun intended. Hazumu was his pal and he seems to have tried to be there for "him" in the past. Now thing have changed and he doesn't really know how to accept them and seriously lacks maturity in how he does deal with Hazumu-chan. Of course, he IS a teenage boy so he has hormones working against him. I remember how hard, pun intended, it was to deal with the hot girls in high school and the problems that embarrassed me when I was his age. (Thank god boys don't wear skirts is all I can say or I'd have been even MORE embarrassed. :P )

And even more so, since I didn't have a male role model that I trusted when I was his age, I had to go through this all by myself. I didn't know what to do and why it was happening to me. I didn't even get the "birds and bees" speech since my family was DEEPLY religious and we just didn't talk about such things. (Besides, birds and bees BOTH lay eggs and I was smart enough to know that much when I was dealing with puberty.)
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Old 2006-02-01, 05:10   Link #7
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yeah ... if there is something that aren't helping Asuta it is the hormone ragings and that Hazumu just is that impossable not to start loving because of her cute somewhat cluelessness about tact and tone
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Old 2006-02-01, 10:03   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyaa the Catlord
If girls can act like boys and it is OK, why can't boys do the same?
From what I have seen when I went to school:
Boys that try to be like girls in any way..... Get picked on and bullied. Moo


Looking to the future:
I wonder what Hazumu thinks of Asuta-kun's behavior and what she should do to combat it or other options your imagination can come up with. Love my Imagination
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Old 2006-02-01, 12:14   Link #9
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Kyaa: I think part of it at least is that it's general looked down upon in society for boys to bully girls. At least I don't remember it happening all that often. (Girls bully other girls well enough for both, just usually not in the physical manner... ^_^;; )

So while you won't usually see typical bullying of girls, even if they act like boys, the boys will pick on other boys who don't fit the societal norm for "manliness" as it may be. Also, there is still the definite subtext in society that women are "inferior" to men -- so a girl trying to be a boy is somewhat accepted, but a boy acting more like a girl goes "against the grain." It's also generally taken as a sign of being "gay" which is a whole other can of worms in society...
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Old 2006-02-01, 12:57   Link #10
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Hehehe "Worms"
You dont see many boys picking on girls but you do see girls picking on boys for random things.
I know lots of girls thats picked on boys for silly reasons, but back then I found it funny and laughed at it
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Old 2006-02-01, 13:07   Link #11
Kyaa the Catlord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediNight
Kyaa: I think part of it at least is that it's general looked down upon in society for boys to bully girls. At least I don't remember it happening all that often. (Girls bully other girls well enough for both, just usually not in the physical manner... ^_^;; )

So while you won't usually see typical bullying of girls, even if they act like boys, the boys will pick on other boys who don't fit the societal norm for "manliness" as it may be. Also, there is still the definite subtext in society that women are "inferior" to men -- so a girl trying to be a boy is somewhat accepted, but a boy acting more like a girl goes "against the grain." It's also generally taken as a sign of being "gay" which is a whole other can of worms in society...
This is how I see the Tomari-Hazumu relationship in a nutshell. Tomari is a strong enough girl to bully the boys who are bullying the girly Hazumu. It turns the whole story on its head, showing that the gender swap really occured YEARS prior to the physical change of Hazumu. Neat, eh?

A girlish boy needs either 1. a strong protector (a prince teehee) or 2. strong walls to defend against the attacks of the bullies. Or both, preferably both actually since you won't always be able to be protected....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenia
Hehehe "Worms"
You dont see many boys picking on girls but you do see girls picking on boys for random things.
I know lots of girls thats picked on boys for silly reasons, but back then I found it funny and laughed at it
Actually, I remember a lot of boys picking on non-girly girls. If you broke the mold when I was young, I feel so old now, you were picked on for not being girly enough. "You'll never find a boyfriend cause you're not pretty enough." or "Tomboys are lesbians!" and the like.... It wasn't just the girls who bullied boyish girls, the boys did too cause they were threatened by them as well.
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Old 2006-02-01, 17:37   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyaa the Catlord
Actually, I remember a lot of boys picking on non-girly girls. If you broke the mold when I was young, I feel so old now, you were picked on for not being girly enough. "You'll never find a boyfriend cause you're not pretty enough." or "Tomboys are lesbians!" and the like.... It wasn't just the girls who bullied boyish girls, the boys did too cause they were threatened by them as well.
Tomboys are cool... they make really good friends(speaking from experience), and the older ones are pretty hot
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Old 2006-02-01, 22:53   Link #13
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Kashimashi is pretty refreshing so far... Most 'male suddenly becomes female' fictional scenarios that I've come across have involved the stereotypical 'masculine' male, and the comedy is about him trying awkwardly to adjust.

Hazumu has actually become more comfortable with himself...his eyes are no longer hidden behind unruly hair, he looks happier. It's some of the people close to him who are having the toughest time. A little bit of realism in a mostly unrealistic show...often, when transgendered/transsexual people take physical and/or social steps to change, they are becoming happier and more comfortable with themselves over this issue that they've faced for a big portion of their lives. Their loved ones, on the other hand, are struck with a ball out of left field that they never saw coming. Of course, this ball was much more sudden and massive and spaceship-shaped.

Tomari and her struggle and reactions are the best part of the show & manga for me. And the tomboyish cuteness doesn't hurt either.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:49   Link #14
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Another thing. Hazumu didn't go around being so cute when he was a guy ("What is it?" smile to Tomari in the locker room, "thank you" to Asuta...), did he? :0 Cause... he's pretty good at it all of a sudden.
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Old 2006-02-06, 04:16   Link #15
Ryuuku Sakigake
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Thoughts.

Yo.

I recently got my hands on the first episode of this little series, and it seems pretty interesting in theory, but it's not as "serious" as most of the anime I tend to watch. Actually, I gravitated toward it because of the main plot device [the whole reversal of sex by aliens] was actually something featured in a story of my own creation.

I've been reading the previous posts and many seem to think this is an allegory for transsexualism or transgenderism, and I tend to think otherwise. I don't think Hazumu had problems being male, he was simply shy and unable to express his feelings of love for fear of rejection. I'm sure many young men go through that, and while it might be considered "unmanly" to many, it does not make one female.

Secondly, his sudden transformation into a "cute" girl [as in why he seemed to become magically cute as a result of the transformation] simply smells like a way to please viewers, since the idea of a boy, an especially delicate and fragile seeming [read: effeminate] boy becoming a hyper feminine girl is interesting [read: sexually interesting] to some.

I feel it's mostly a gag show, not a show attempting to push, or teach a social issue. But I can understand how people, especially in the West, would sort of tack that on as a metaphor. While as interesting the concept is as a show to me, I think the most interesting part is how others will come to view Hazumu, and how he, or she in this case, will ultimately come to view herself. Simply because of the change, will she end up somehow "different" because of it, or continue being Hazumu. After all, while chromosomes and hormones make up what sex we are, it does not define who we are as people completely. I think I would love to see a series that reflects this, by having a character who does not really change after such a life altering event such as this, but rather, forces those around him or her to change their perspective.

As I type this, I'm trying to get my hands on episode two. Let's see where this show goes.
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Old 2006-02-06, 04:43   Link #16
Sian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuuku Sakigake
I think I would love to see a series that reflects this, by having a character who does not really change after such a life altering event such as this, but rather, forces those around him or her to change their perspective.
well ... thats pretty much how it goes ... Hazumu doesn't really change but the people around her have to
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Old 2006-02-06, 12:24   Link #17
Ryuuku Sakigake
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Well...

That's the thing; she does change, insofar as I can see. Most males, if suddenly transformed into a female wouldn't so quickly go down the path of "becoming" a girl as fast as Hazumu seems to, but I think the nature of the show will invariably "force" the change on him, because that's what people want to see -- Hazumu become a female archetype.

Ah well. I think I'll just sit back and watch where this goes. It might surprise me.
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Old 2006-02-11, 22:15   Link #18
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Ralistic VS Cute Asian Father and Son/Daughter Relationships

All I can say is: Good relief that Kashimashi makes caraicatures out of Hazumu's father rather than a realistic portrayal.

Picture it: You are an Asian bloke who has broke his back for 14 to 16 years (the show dosen't specify WHICH high-school second year the characters are in) to raise your son, your only child in fact, with assured hope that your future desecendants will be of your bloodline.

Then LO and Behold, you learn that unless you and your missus try otherwise real quick, that hope has gone right out the window and over a decade of hard work to preserve your bloodline has been in vain.

Start flaming me if you like, I'm giving an honest assessment of how most Asian fathers behave. I am Asian myself, I should know.


Admit it, fellow blokes out there (I'm not speaking just to the Asian ones) who want to have children in the future: we will love all our children, regardless of gender.

But, even those who don't want to admit it at the risk of sounding "sexist" want deep inside to have a masculine offspring to pass on his legacy, and his father's, and his father before him. It is a debt of honor that an Asian man is obligated to pay on a cultural level. There is a reason why Asian Patriarchs, at their deathbeds, tell their grandsons they are the hope of the family's future. (I feel the flames of political correctness singing me already)

Even on a genetic and logical level, the X chromosome that the father provides to create his daughter does not even belong to him, but his mother before him. The Y chormosome that the father passes down to his son(s) would therefore be the only legacy of that bloodline having ever existed on this world. Once that Y dies with the son, so dies the bloodline.

Not to say that we as a race do not love our daughters, far from it. The birth, matruition and eventual rise to glory of any offspring is joyous indeed. But if you ever been in an Asian family, you'll see the cold look in the eyes at family gatherings towards the uncle who could have had a son, but does not even try. Leniency however would be displayed, thankfully, if further child-bearing would be hazardous to the well being and indeed life of the mother in question.

This selective privillige is not strictly a Taiwanese phenonmenon, as both Japan and European countries traditionally (and in some provinces still do) also give exclusive inheritance rights to the sons only.

Back to Kashimashi.

If Hazumu's dad was even a bit more realistic in his portrayal, the camera would have had a close-up to his face, with a twinge of dissapointment in his eyes. And rather than being as loving, "attentive" and accomodating as he was in EP2, he would still love her, but become colder, distant and aloof. Ironically however, Hazumu's connection with her mother would therefore porportionately strengthen.

It was therefore a wise choice on the part of the scriptwriters to circumvent this issue altogether, because entire episodes alone, if not seasons and shows altogether can be devoted to it, and that would detract completely from the romantic-drama-comedy core of the the narrative. Ikari Shinji would have an absolute field day with Hazumu if the show is remotely any more serious.

Phew, such a long rant.

Fire Away, I know that even honesty will get me flamed. Not like it has not happened before now has it?
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Last edited by Ronin Aquila; 2006-02-12 at 09:05.
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Old 2006-02-12, 06:35   Link #19
Gladi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila
reaaly long post
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I agree with you. As it is daughters marry into foreign families. It is the son who does (and has duty to) preserve the name of your ?family? (don't know word in english all your relatives by paternal conection from dawn of time to the last of line) and its spirit.

On the other side Hazumu is lesbian so how do "they" work in equation?
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Old 2006-02-12, 14:05   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladi
Bright day
I agree with you. As it is daughters marry into foreign families. It is the son who does (and has duty to) preserve the name of your ?family? (don't know word in english all your relatives by paternal conection from dawn of time to the last of line) and its spirit.

On the other side Hazumu is lesbian so how do "they" work in equation?
I suppose you can combine the last names... Or determine it based on who's the giver and who's the taker in the relationship ;o
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