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Old 2013-04-20, 00:40   Link #1021
Theo
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I'm okay with it. She can't have the same dead look after years and years of interaction, right? Besides, I think the look in the manga during downtime is more dedicated and detached rather than traumatized.

Of course, I wouldn't mind her looking this way either:
Spoiler for The Stare:
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Old 2013-04-20, 01:22   Link #1022
richardtengcy
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
For comparison:

Anime


Manga


How she should look in the anime



Her lips aren't really the problem, but the problem is that she is missing her dead eyes.
I wouldn`t say the eyes is the problem as you can see there's sunlight glaring at their eyes and thus causing some reflection in her eyes.

My problem was with the lipstick....
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Old 2013-04-20, 01:34   Link #1023
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Old 2013-04-20, 01:55   Link #1024
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Hi there! I've been lurking in these forums for quite a long time now, but I just decided to make a profile now just to share my thoughts on this discussion here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Really, really awesome analysis.
Basically, everything you said, is what I think to be really close and possibly accurate to what the author of Shingeki no Kyojin wanted us to see. It may really just be me, because I haven't seen anyone anyone describe it this way, but I feel that, as out of place as it is, the staff actually intended the opening to bring these kinds of expectations and atmosphere to, as you might've already guessed, bait the viewer. And I sure as hell love the opening for that!

From the way I see it, they made the whole opening scene into something like a propaganda. And a lot of propagandas are one-sided, optimistic and aims to boost a certain target audience's morale. To just elaborate my points, an example is the opening sequence of the 1st episode itself.

In my opinion, they showed the Colossal Titan to describe the degree of danger that the humans were facing, but the next scenes they showed were the Recon Corps attacking a Titan, which basically showed us that they were at least be able to fight the Titans in general ('Have a taste of mankind's strength!', as one soldier shouted), and was basically emphasized by the opening song that followed after.

A lot of things in the opening are really misleading to a lot of people because it's totally different to the actual situation the anime is showing. For example:
1) The Lyrics. Most of the lyrics revolved around the themes like freedom, being able to resist the enemy and fight back equally, being as free as predators and not trapped like the prey (The very first chant in the song was 'They are the meal and we are the hunters' in German, and was in the point of view of a human), and a lot of revenge themes as well.
2) A lot of visuals just showed the humans fighting the Titans, not the other way around. They also always showed the humans fighting in groups, and don't show what happens if you fight a Titan alone.
3) The big-ass letters that gave the viewer an in-your-face kind of feel that emphasised the lyrics of the song.
4) The upbeat feel of the song itself. It's the type of song that's put when they're showing great achievements, with the vision of a glorious victory right in their reach.

Ironically, the anime is literally nothing like what I just stated above. They weren't free; they were stuck inside a wall that was the only thing protecting them. They can't even resist the enemy; they were just pushed back to the next wall. It's the Titans that did most of the attacking, and the only things humans can do was counter-attack most of the time.

But the anime knew this and was quick to show why. When the Recon Corps came back, they came back wounded, fewer in numbers and not proud like they were supposed to be, had they succeeded. The next events after that then became a constant roller-coaster of despair and terror, and crushed everything you felt at the start of the episode. I think that they set the opening like that because they did expect the viewer to realise that the situation was hopeless at the end, which had more impact because they made it look like the humans were toe-to-toe with the Titans in battle. They made it misleading because it worked well (but some people didn't know that the Titans attacking were as one sided as it actually was, so they did hate the start of the episode for misleading them.

I also know that there's a loophole with the things I wrote above. A lot of people already know the actual situation humanity had in Shingeki no Kyojin: those who have already read the manga or even those who've already read a detailed synopsis or spoiler (I was part of the latter when I started watching the anime). And because of that, it's obvious that the shock factor is already lost and won't be as effective anymore. When I watched the OP, I thought to myself, 'That's totally not how the story goes. They just like to make it look like a shounen battle anime where the protagonists are fighting an equally strong or slightly stronger enemy.' And as much as I still love the opening (it's epic, I have to say), I doubted it quickly. But I still think it worked the way they'd wanted. I think that the more each person doubts the OP each time, the more they begin understand the degree of terror and hopelessness of the characters fighting the Titans, which was again, what Jan-Poo explained above. I'll never be sure about this, but I think the staff was aware of what they were doing when they made the opening song and the anime itself. Then again, I may have only been overthinking and exaggerating how much they planned it, haha.

Oh, and sorry about this really, really long post!
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Old 2013-04-20, 02:52   Link #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
That said, I can understand where the objections come from. I think it's mainly a case of how you first experienced the story. If your first impression of the characters came from the manga, you will naturally form certain preconceptions of how they should look and sound in anime, so it's not surprising to experience some dissonance when what you see and hear do not match what you imagined.
For the record though,Kanon and I both watched the first couple anime episodes before reading the manga.
So the anime was the first thing both of us saw.

As for the OP,really to me it just reflects Eren's state of mind,especially the lyrics but also the epic tone.It just so happens that Eren's state of mind is at odds with right about everyone else's: maybe others are terrified of the titans but he didn't seem to get the memo. The guy doesn't seem intimidated by titans like others,he's declared at the end of episode 2 that he'll "kill every last one of them".
He's always wanted to join the scouting legion and fight beyond the wall and even seeing his hometown attacked and his mom eaten alive didn't hurt his resolve,if anything it made it stronger,he signed up for military training as soon as he could.
The OP begins with "They're the food and we're the hunters", which seems quite the opposite of what we've seen so far, it's the humans that are the titan's food.Yet if there's ever someone who wishes to be a "titan hunter" it's Eren.
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Old 2013-04-20, 03:13   Link #1026
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It wouldn't be just Eren who "didn't get the memo". I didn't either.

I don't mean any disrespect to Hajime Isayama, but the theme of fighting against hopeless odds, which plays on Japan's perennial siege mentality, is hardly rare in manga or anime. Just last season alone, both Psycho-Pass and Shin Sekai Yori played on similar fears, the idea of something pure being lost to an unstoppable, barbaric foreign intruder. It's a familiar theme that recurs constantly in Japanese history and literature, very likely inspired by a nostalgic longing for a simpler time when Japan could apparently be self-sufficient, could live on its own terms, could keep out indefinitely the corruption of the outside world.

Of course, there's no point in arguing over subjective opinions, but I find it ironic that it took a foreign director like Clint Eastwood to capture the tragic nobility of self-sacrifice amid hopeless odds in Letters from Iwo Jima. In that movie, yes, I could truly feel the despair, truly feel sorry for the Japanese forced to fight a doomed battle. I don't remember a single Japanese movie on the same theme that ever made me feel the same way.

I never felt that the goal of Shingeki no Kyojin was to replicate those feelings of melancholy. Yes, it's about fighting against hopeless odds but, more importantly, it's also about stirring up passionate, righteous rage among readers and viewers alike. The approach is completely different. The story isn't meant to appeal to our sympathies for the characters' humanity as it is about just giving us a good, solid dose of epic entertainment about prevailing against seemingly indomitable foes.

From that perspective, I don't fault the way producers handled the anime adaptation. I find it faithful to the spirit of the manga, in its own way.
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Old 2013-04-20, 03:27   Link #1027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It wouldn't be just Eren who "didn't get the memo". I didn't either.

I don't mean any disrespect to Hajime Isayama, but the theme of fighting against hopeless odds, which plays on Japan's perennial siege mentality, is hardly rare in manga or anime. Just last season alone, both Psycho-Pass and Shin Sekai Yori played on similar fears, the idea of something pure being lost to an unstoppable, barbaric foreign intruder. It's a familiar theme that recurs constantly in Japanese history and literature, very likely inspired by a nostalgic longing for a simpler time when Japan could apparently be self-sufficient, could live on its own terms, could keep out indefinitely the corruption of the outside world.
Just coming in to pitch my two cents.

I never got the vibes that AoT is supposed to be playing on the Japanese mentality or the theme itself was made for the Japanese to relate better.

It really just seems to me the the mangaka wants to tell a story about a world where humanity is up against impossible odds. There's nothing remotely 'Japanese' about the story. (At least that's what I see.)

In no way were any of the characters characterized with Japanese values whatsoever, just universal human values.
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Old 2013-04-20, 03:36   Link #1028
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Originally Posted by theflyingturkey View Post
Just coming in to pitch my two cents.

I never got the vibes that AoT is supposed to be playing on the Japanese mentality or the theme itself was made for the Japanese to relate better.

It really just seems to me the the mangaka wants to tell a story about a world where humanity is up against impossible odds. There's nothing remotely 'Japanese' about the story. (At least that's what I see.)

In no way were any of the characters characterized with Japanese values whatsoever, just universal human values.
The theme of fighting on with courage in spite of the odds is universal, no doubt about that. But it has particular resonance for Japanese audiences, because of their historical experience. That's all I'm implying.
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Old 2013-04-20, 03:37   Link #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The theme of fighting on with courage in spite of the odds is universal, no doubt about that. But it has particular resonance for Japanese audiences, because of their historical experience. That's all I'm implying.
Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 2013-04-20, 03:45   Link #1030
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I'm liking the bold lines and general art of this show. Hope the story is up to par down the road, good start already
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Old 2013-04-20, 07:11   Link #1031
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The choice of the bold lines is certainly interesting.
As you might have noticed the manga is a bit sketchy, but sketchy and animation do not go well together. Sure there are examples of that in anime like the classic "Tiger Mask" but I don't really think it's an example of good animation at all.

The use of bold lines is probably meant to get as close as possible to the feeling you get from the manga's sketchy lines without compromising the quality of the animation. So far it seems to work pretty well in my opinion.
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Old 2013-04-20, 08:31   Link #1032
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I'm liking the bold lines and general art of this show. Hope the story is up to par down the road, good start already
The story gets better and better the further it goes!
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Old 2013-04-20, 09:38   Link #1033
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Jaeger or Yeager?

What's the correct English spelling for Eren's surname?
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Old 2013-04-20, 09:52   Link #1034
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Probably Jaeger, pronounced (Yay-ger). The German word for hunter.
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:02   Link #1035
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Jaeger or Yeager?

What's the correct English spelling for Eren's surname?
It's never easy to say which is the correct spelling in roman characters of names that in the original only appear in katakana.

Most of the times translators whether they are "amateur" or "professional" only take a guess and adapt to what they think it's the most logical spelling.
In a few cases the original work provides the spelling in romaji, that doesn't seem the case with Shingeki no Kyojin, but even in those cases often it is a last-minute guess (meaning that the author originally only thought about the katakana names and only later tried to render them in romaji for promo materials, artbooks and so on) often with not very satisfying results.

Take for example the English title "Attack on titan", exactly what is that supposed to mean? If I didn't know what's this story is about I'd think "Titan" refers to the moon of Saturn.
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:10   Link #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The choice of the bold lines is certainly interesting...

The use of bold lines is probably meant to get as close as possible to the feeling you get from the manga's sketchy lines without compromising the quality of the animation. So far it seems to work pretty well in my opinion.
The last time I saw similar bold outlines was in Toshokan Sensou, a Production I.G anime:



I wonder if it's a part of the studio's aesthetic housestyle.



It could be, as "lipstick"-wearing Mikasa reminds me a lot of Balsa of Seirei no Moribito,
also a Production I.G project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Take for example the English title "Attack on titan", exactly what is that supposed to mean? If I didn't know what's this story is about I'd think "Titan" refers to the moon of Saturn.
That was my first thought as well. I was expecting a sci-fi story about a human colony on Titan under attack by titanic aliens. Attack on Titan appears to be the official English title, though. I put it down to good ol' Engrish. Attack of the Titans would be the much more grammatical translation.

Incidentally, I'm willing to bet that Shingeki no Kyojin was, at the very least, partly inspired by this classic painting:

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

It's entitled Cronus Devouring His Son, by Francisco Goya. Those of you familiar with Greek mythology will know Cronus as the leader of the Titans, the race of beings that predated the gods of Olympus. Cronus ate his children as he had learnt that he would one day be overthrown by one of them, just as he had overthrown his father Uranus to become the leader of the supreme race. Cronus failed, as Zeus was successfully hidden after he was born.

As for the painting itself, it has become an iconic symbol of the perennial conflict between old and new, a metaphor for the abuse of power as those in positions of authority consume the young eager to bring about change.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2013-04-20 at 10:44.
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:27   Link #1037
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The Engrish they used for the title always bothered me so much xD
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:29   Link #1038
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I have read the manga and i was wondering to those whom have read the manga how is the anime?
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:31   Link #1039
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
That was my first thought as well. I was expecting a sci-fi story about a human colony on Titan under attack by titanic aliens. Attack on Titan appears to be the official English title, though. I put it down to good ol' Engrish. Attack of the Titans would be the much more grammatical translation.
I actually think it should be the opposite: instead of the Titans attacking, it should be attacking the Titans since that's what Eren is training for, right?
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:48   Link #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
It's never easy to say which is the correct spelling in roman characters of names that in the original only appear in katakana.

Most of the times translators whether they are "amateur" or "professional" only take a guess and adapt to what they think it's the most logical spelling.
In a few cases the original work provides the spelling in romaji, that doesn't seem the case with Shingeki no Kyojin, but even in those cases often it is a last-minute guess (meaning that the author originally only thought about the katakana names and only later tried to render them in romaji for promo materials, artbooks and so on) often with not very satisfying results.

Take for example the English title "Attack on titan", exactly what is that supposed to mean? If I didn't know what's this story is about I'd think "Titan" refers to the moon of Saturn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
That was my first thought as well. I was expecting a sci-fi story about a human colony on Titan under attack by titanic aliens. Attack on Titan appears to be the official English title, though. I put it down to good ol' Engrish. Attack of the Titans would be the much more grammatical translation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
The Engrish they used for the title always bothered me so much xD
That's why the show should be translated in to English as "The Eotena Onslaught"


Spoiler for Long Explanation:

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2013-04-28 at 07:04.
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