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Old 2013-04-23, 15:06   Link #2961
Eragon
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So.........you asking me whether I want to marry a girl who is cute, hot AND took out an Uber badass hollow at point-blank range and made it look like she was grocery shopping - yeaaahhhh, real tough choice
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Old 2013-04-23, 15:10   Link #2962
sayde
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Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
So how did Isshin know about FGT in this instance? If he managed to get to that level, wouldn't he have been much more than a mere captain? Even if he didn't have a hollow to fuse with, he would still have been considerably more powerful than everyone else (apart from Yamajii), and much more powerful than that hollow thingy
I don't think we should refer to Ichigo's example as a classic case of what happens after learning FGT (or whatever final move a bankai grants its user). That's to say, learning that final attack won't make a shinigami exponentially stronger like it did to Ichigo. If I had to guess, all it typically does is grant them access to their bankai's final technique.

The reason why Ichigo got so much more powerful during the process of learning FGT was because he supposedly had to come to full terms with an entire half of his power he spent so long trying to control rather than accept. So once that happened, his bankai changed a little and his overall power ascended to a dimension of its own.

In short, even though I think Isshin might know FGT, I don't think him (or any other typical shinigami) learning it would have nearly the same effects it had on Ichigo. I'll even dare say that learning such a technique might not make a shinigami stronger at all...until the times comes when they decide to sacrifice their powers just to use their "final" attack.

Last edited by sayde; 2013-04-23 at 15:27.
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Old 2013-04-23, 15:24   Link #2963
dragonmeister
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
On an unrelated note, its interesting how the chapter confirms Masaki is indeed roughly 100 years old. So it seems this chapter confirmed that Quincy's do have extended life spans, perhaps on par to that of shinigami's if Juha Bach is any indicator.
Why is she 100 years old? This is about 15-20 years ago, as it features Toshiro as 3rd seat, and in -35/6 (depending on which release) he was still living with his grandmother before he met Rangiku - Isshin's complete non-recognition of Urahara despite having had time to rise to the rank of captain suggests that he was not within the upper echelons of the Gotei 13, as otherwise he would have had contact with him at meetings - I think that Urahara's comment about studying her condition is more about hollowification, which is more in line with him gaining his captaincy about 110 years before the main plot
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Old 2013-04-23, 15:27   Link #2964
sayde
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Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
Why is she 100 years old? This is about 15-20 years ago, as it features Toshiro as 3rd seat, and in -35/6 (depending on which release) he was still living with his grandmother before he met Rangiku - Isshin's complete non-recognition of Urahara despite having had time to rise to the rank of captain suggests that he was not within the upper echelons of the Gotei 13, as otherwise he would have had contact with him at meetings - I think that Urahara's comment about studying her condition is more about hollowification, which is more in line with him gaining his captaincy about 110 years before the main plot
OH wait! Forget it. I misinterpreted Urahara's words big time. *edits post*
My bad.
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Old 2013-04-23, 15:33   Link #2965
SeanQ
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To simply put it...my head hurts...
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Old 2013-04-23, 16:17   Link #2966
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If the hollow was transferred to Ichigo after he was born, either Masaki or Isshin should have gotten her/his powers back because there was no need to use soul-string to protect Masaki anymore.
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Old 2013-04-23, 16:24   Link #2967
Alchemist007
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As much as we were told, there's way more we don't know especially when it comes to this soul tying stuff.
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Old 2013-04-23, 22:31   Link #2968
amaterasu4
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For some reason when I finished the chapter I imagined what jokes would Alchemist007 come up with his comics. Two hints: Fanservice and symbolism. XD
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Old 2013-04-23, 22:40   Link #2969
quigonkenny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
OH wait! Forget it. I misinterpreted Urahara's words big time. *edits post*
My bad.
Interestingly enough, this chapter effectively confirms that Quincies (at least in Ryuuken's experience) don't normally have a particularly lengthened lifespan, since he was so surprised about Urahara's age. By comparison, Isshin, who is certainly more familiar with multi-centenarians (and as a Shinigami, may very well be one at this point), took the revelation of his age relatively in stride and just asked him who he was.

My guess is Juha Bach is so old only because he spends all his time in the Schatten Bereich. Might explain why he's so hell-bent on destroying the Shinigami, and thus the soul balance. The ability for him to exist in any realm for any length of time without aging might be a side effect of the walls between realms being destroyed.
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Old 2013-04-24, 01:17   Link #2970
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I don't think we should refer to Ichigo's example as a classic case of what happens after learning FGT (or whatever final move a bankai grants its user). That's to say, learning that final attack won't make a shinigami exponentially stronger like it did to Ichigo. If I had to guess, all it typically does is grant them access to their bankai's final technique.

The reason why Ichigo got so much more powerful during the process of learning FGT was because he supposedly had to come to full terms with an entire half of his power he spent so long trying to control rather than accept. So once that happened, his bankai changed a little and his overall power ascended to a dimension of its own.

In short, even though I think Isshin might know FGT, I don't think him (or any other typical shinigami) learning it would have nearly the same effects it had on Ichigo. I'll even dare say that learning such a technique might not make a shinigami stronger at all...until the times comes when they decide to sacrifice their powers just to use their "final" attack.
I think the biggest indicator would be the point that Ichigo could "feel" Aizen's reiatsu, while no one else could fully "Understand"/"comprehend" the magnitude of his power. In other words, Ichigo always had unbelievable power/potential, and his FGT helped him get there/tap into that. His dad, Isshin, on the other hand, is likely nowhere as strong with FGT just purely given the fact that he can't sense Aizen's true reiatsu when he was in "condom" mode.
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Old 2013-04-24, 03:23   Link #2971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
I think the biggest indicator would be the point that Ichigo could "feel" Aizen's reiatsu, while no one else could fully "Understand"/"comprehend" the magnitude of his power. In other words, Ichigo always had unbelievable power/potential, and his FGT helped him get there/tap into that. His dad, Isshin, on the other hand, is likely nowhere as strong with FGT just purely given the fact that he can't sense Aizen's true reiatsu when he was in "condom" mode.
Then again, Isshin's power was taken away from him right or he gave it up in order to save Masaki? Who is telling that Isshin is on his full potential when he faced condom-aizen?

Yes he got some of his strength back, but was it everything he had before? I seriously doubt it.
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Old 2013-04-24, 07:13   Link #2972
Squarecrow
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I... what? Urahara had a way to stop Hollowfication, pretty sure before he had ever even seen it, and had the Quincy Juice™ required to do it when Shinji and his pals got Hollowraped by Aizen? And they didn't require any sort of companion to actively suppress the Hollow. If he's doing something different to Masaki why even mention Shinji and his pals? Oh yeah, Kubo.
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Old 2013-04-24, 11:54   Link #2973
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
So how did Isshin know about FGT in this instance? If he managed to get to that level, wouldn't he have been much more than a mere captain?
to me, everything pointed to isshin being a squad 0 member and using FGT to lose his powers... but kubo doesn't care, so why should we
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:08   Link #2974
Helius
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:24   Link #2975
felix
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Next week: Ichigo's been a Hollow with with shinigami powers this whole time!
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:44   Link #2976
Kinku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSkip View Post
If the hollow was transferred to Ichigo after he was born, either Masaki or Isshin should have gotten her/his powers back because there was no need to use soul-string to protect Masaki anymore.
I think when Ichigo mother died it went to the nearest spirit power which was Ichigo at the time. When Rukia gave her power to Ichigo it kinda awaken the Hollow side of Ichigo. IDK its all confusing for me.
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Old 2013-04-24, 15:09   Link #2977
miroku2192
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I hope we find out later somehow Ichigo was the reason his mom died.
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Old 2013-04-24, 17:05   Link #2978
quigonkenny
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
to me, everything pointed to isshin being a squad 0 member and using FGT to lose his powers... but kubo doesn't care, so why should we
Isshin being Squad 0 was never more than a fan theory. A popular fan theory, of course, but a theory nonetheless. The only thing suggesting the two had anything to do with each other was that we, as fans, didn't know much about either. If it had been the case, we'd have all been "Okay, fair enough", but it not being the case is hardly some glaring plot hole.

Isshin losing his powers via FGT, not so much, but there's still probably a chapter or two left in this flashback, so who knows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
I hope we find out later somehow Ichigo was the reason his mom died.
If he was the one Grand Fisher was after, then yes, in some way, Ichigo was the reason she died, but we knew that.

The possibility I find more intriguing would be if somehow Ichigo were the reason she's not dead...
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Old 2013-04-24, 17:08   Link #2979
haegar
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eh, kubo made urahara mindfuck me ...

on the bright side Isshin is pretty cool and dat ass looks good.
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Old 2013-04-24, 17:15   Link #2980
Langus
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Loved it. Damn it's been a long time since I've said that about a chapter. All around though this was aces. It's cool to see how much like his Dad Ichigo actually is. That scene at the end reminded me of his big Rukia rescue in the SS arc. Atta boy, Isshin!
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