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Old 2013-04-23, 13:43   Link #21
Luminion Lancer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
It's even less than lip service at the moment, it's exactly the same situation than with Pain except that since Naruto likes to have an audience friends next to him he has to spend all his strength shielding them instead of taking the offensive or else they would be instantly killed.
The chakra cloaks aren't even theirs, it's still under Naruto's control. The ninja alliance is completely worthless.
To be fair, they are up against a creature that not even the man who invented ninjutsu, Sage of Six Paths, could get rid of on a permanent basis. Added to that, they are up against a resurrected and powered-up Madara, who along with Hashirama, built the foundation of the current ninja world. Course, that still doesn't change that Naruto had to protect their collective asses since apparently the word "dodging" has been removed from their memory.
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Old 2013-04-23, 15:35   Link #22
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Typeblue View Post
That's just your interpretation... even if you are right, and Naruto was getting his ass kicked, one thing is certain, he will fare better by himself, without having to worry about his friends.
Naruto would be dead a dozen times by now if his friends didn't save him. But most of these guys aren't his friends anyway and also most of them are useful only for one thing: they can buy a little bit of time for Naruto to charge up by simply being there and dying. The situation is somewhat similar to that of his fight against Pain, because Naruto could have never beaten Pain alone, he needed the others but their "help" was not fighting: the whole village helped Naruto simply by being Shinra-tensei'ed because that way the main Pain body was disabled for most of their fight, Hinata helped him by bringing out the kyuubi, etc. They can also help him by interacting with the evil guys and also Naruto which gives a mental boost to Naruto, morale is always important in such battles.

Naruto's character is designed in such a way that he needs help. He's not like Sasuke, he's stupid, he is ignorant in many thing, he's too emotional, etc. So he needs friends like Kakashi and Shikamaru who can find out the secrets and weaknesses of his enemies, he needs his parents and KillerBee and Jiraiya's frogs to give him powers (sage mode, kyuubi mode), he even needs the kyuubi and the other tailed beasts to give their powers to him, because Naruto often uses raw power to fight against enemies who have special powers.

Madara's face really tells it all about his inferiority complex when it comes to Hashirama. The poor guy was humiliated so many times that beating Hashirama could be so important for him that he even gives up on his infinite tsukiyomi if he has to choose between finally being able to beat Hashirama and that. It will be quite funny to see Madara when he beats Hashirama and then Hashirama doesn't care at all but tells something similar to what Naruto is talking about and then leaves the thing to Naruto and Sasuke.

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-04-23 at 16:17.
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Old 2013-04-23, 16:05   Link #23
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i wonder if madara hoped/intended hashirama would be resurrected...when i consider this option then all that talk during the kage fight sounds like "if you wanna beat me, betta bring hash to the field." when he finally arrives he rinnegan steals his chakra. cause, you know, thats what he really needs in order to attain the power of the sage...
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Old 2013-04-23, 16:32   Link #24
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Chapter felt too short, we've heard it an enough number of times Naruto.
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Old 2013-04-23, 18:20   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Naruto's character is designed in such a way that he needs help. He's not like Sasuke, he's stupid, he is ignorant in many thing, he's too emotional, etc.
...What?
Quote:
Madara's face really tells it all about his inferiority complex when it comes to Hashirama. The poor guy was humiliated so many times that beating Hashirama could be so important for him that he even gives up on his infinite tsukiyomi if he has to choose between finally being able to beat Hashirama and that.
I think you misunderstand Madara's character, His face tells of his bloodlust and joy at the thought of fighting him. His relation with Hashirama is very different than between Sasuke and Naruto or even Itachi and Sasuke when he hated his brother.
Madara genuinely love and hate and respect and oppose Hashirama in everything. They're bitter adversary and friend but neither jealousy nor inferiority ever was into the picture with those two.
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Old 2013-04-23, 18:42   Link #26
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
...What?
Yes, i know your opinion about Sasuke's character
But let's pretend we think about him as the author intended, then he's the less emotional and smarter guy from the two. He comes up with strategies and jutsu on his own, for example he came up with Kirin on his own and Orochi didn't have a clue about all that, while Naruto had to learn from Kakashi, he even asked Asuma about nature manipulation, etc.

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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
I think you misunderstand Madara's character, His face tells of his bloodlust and joy at the thought of fighting him. His relation with Hashirama is very different than between Sasuke and Naruto or even Itachi and Sasuke when he hated his brother.
Madara genuinely love and hate and respect and oppose Hashirama in everything. They're bitter adversary and friend but neither jealousy nor inferiority ever was into the picture with those two.
That could be the case, we'll see when they fight, what will Madara say when he wins. For me it's hard to believe that a guy who is so arrogant and so competitive would not be really angry that another guy not only beats him multiple times but he lets him live. Surely before he turned "evil" his strong bond with Hashirama just overpowered such thoughts, but we don't know how he exactly changed when he became "evil".
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Old 2013-04-23, 19:19   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
That could be the case, we'll see when they fight, what will Madara say when he wins. For me it's hard to believe that a guy who is so arrogant and so competitive would not be really angry that another guy not only beats him multiple times but he lets him live. Surely before he turned "evil" his strong bond with Hashirama just overpowered such thoughts, but we don't know how he exactly changed when he became "evil".
and i cant wait for that to be revealed...im laughing my ass off it hashirama snatching up Mito was the last straw lol...seriously tho, i feel like there is another enemy lurking in the shadows pushing madara forward. next chapter, that enemy will be in its final transformation
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Old 2013-04-23, 19:35   Link #28
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So it seems fighting Hashirama again will give Madara the release he needs in order to move on. Though I thought it was strange that old man Hiruzen was summoned (died as an old man), but young Madara was summoned even though he died as an old man -- Kabuto must have done something.
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Old 2013-04-23, 19:37   Link #29
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Madara becomes gay for Hashirama... He orgasmed a flo-

*gets shot by yaoi haters*
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Old 2013-04-23, 20:08   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
It's even less than lip service at the moment, it's exactly the same situation than with Pain except that since Naruto likes to have an audience friends next to him he has to spend all his strength shielding them instead of taking the offensive or else they would be instantly killed.
The chakra cloaks aren't even theirs, it's still under Naruto's control. The ninja alliance is completely worthless.
Agreed.

I much prefer it when the team-work is restricted to roles that make sense. The manga shines when tactics take precedent over brute force.
  • Maybe have all the clever strategy types like Kakashi, Shikamaru etc perched somewhere high, analyzing the fight, and helping naruto with tactics.
  • Have the defensive shield type ninjas deployed far away to protect the various cities/towns from incoming bombardment from the ten tails.
  • Have the some good genjutsu users operating from distance to help naruto set up some camouflaged attacks.
  • Maybe have a few of the very strongest from different countries on the actual battlefield working with naurto (and him sharing chakra with them). People who can take care of themselves, but can also be a huge asset when they get the freebie kyubi chakra. (Bee, gaara, etc)
  • The whole setup right now is pretty dumb. On a relative scale, they might as well have konohamaru and udon fighting in the front lines too. His allies need to be set up in such a manner that they are an aid to him, and not a burden.

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Old 2013-04-23, 20:32   Link #31
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i am sure real team work come into play when sasuke joins naruto. those 2 had team work or perhaps hokages teamwork and minato-naruto. right now alliace seems to be dead weight unless naruto leads the alliance next chapter giving shika instructions to comep with a plan. the alliance can execute it like when shikaku was alive.
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Old 2013-04-23, 21:36   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Yes, i know your opinion about Sasuke's character
But let's pretend we think about him as the author intended, then he's the less emotional and smarter guy from the two. He comes up with strategies and jutsu on his own, for example he came up with Kirin on his own and Orochi didn't have a clue about all that, while Naruto had to learn from Kakashi, he even asked Asuma about nature manipulation, etc.
This is not about my opinion that Sasuke is a morron, this is about the fact that Sasuke also received helps during his fights (there are very few combats in this entire manga fully 1 vs. 1 without any outside help), the fact that while Sasuke isn't as demonstrative in his feeling as Naruto he is however very passionate and even a bit fanatical in his emotion (Hell the Uchiha literally have enhanced emotion), the fact that he was also very ignorant of the world he lived in until recently and the fact he's done many things that most sane people wouldn't call smart. He might not be as dumb as Naruto but then again who is?
Quote:
That could be the case, we'll see when they fight, what will Madara say when he wins. For me it's hard to believe that a guy who is so arrogant and so competitive would not be really angry that another guy not only beats him multiple times but he lets him live. Surely before he turned "evil" his strong bond with Hashirama just overpowered such thoughts, but we don't know how he exactly changed when he became "evil".
Madara never had any trouble admitting that Hashirama bested him. He only ever was arrogant to people he truly overwhelmed completely and utterly. In fact when was he ever really competitive except in a friendly fashion as a child along with Hashirama? He fought for the sake of his brother and not out of misguided sense of superiority and he wasn't even really interested in the Hokage position. There is no doubt that he wishes to fight and beat Hashirama, that much is certain, but it really doesn't seem to me that it's out of an inferiority complex.
Incidentally he was only beaten twice and the first time was against Hashirama, Tobirama and a few others Senju.
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Madara becomes gay for Hashirama... He orgasmed a flo-

*gets shot by yaoi haters*
That's fairy close to canon.
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Old 2013-04-24, 08:10   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Naruto would be dead a dozen times by now if his friends didn't save him. But most of these guys aren't his friends anyway and also most of them are useful only for one thing: they can buy a little bit of time for Naruto to charge up by simply being there and dying. The situation is somewhat similar to that of his fight against Pain, because Naruto could have never beaten Pain alone, he needed the others but their "help" was not fighting: the whole village helped Naruto simply by being Shinra-tensei'ed because that way the main Pain body was disabled for most of their fight, Hinata helped him by bringing out the kyuubi, etc. They can also help him by interacting with the evil guys and also Naruto which gives a mental boost to Naruto, morale is always important in such battles.
You just described half the battles in Naruto..think Zabuza/Haku; Sasuke/Obito; Kakashi/Guy . A lot of strong characters have had help at some point in the Manga. Those who don't receive help usually die...like Sarutobi.

Also, let's not forget that Mandara is not necessarily fighting alone either, he has the 10 tails and Obito. I personally think current Naruto can hold his own against Mandara, but in this Manga there are so many factors to consider...



Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Madara becomes gay for Hashirama... He orgasmed a flo-

*gets shot by yaoi haters*
Again with the orgasm joke... it's been overplayed already
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Old 2013-04-24, 08:32   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Madara genuinely love and hate and respect and oppose Hashirama in everything. They're bitter adversary and friend but neither jealousy nor inferiority ever was into the picture with those two.
A long winded way of saying Madara got a hard on for Hashirama..


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Old 2013-04-24, 11:49   Link #35
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by 0 kelvin View Post
Hm... some scanlations have higher res, easier to see what's happening, but the translation differs by some words or grammar.

3 Battles:

Kakashi vs Obito alone in another dimension
Naruto and the alliance vs Ten tails
Madara vs Hashirama

where is Sasuke going? Expecting some split up from the Sasuke, dead Hokages, Oro, group.
i highly doubt that is what is happening. obito would slaughter kakashi 1 on 1. most likely they are both going to the edo-hokages as well to have a reminiscence fight with minato, while madara takes on the senju bros. and orochimaru stabs everyone in the back and fights hiruzen again
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Old 2013-04-24, 12:59   Link #36
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Suigetsu will defeat madara
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:28   Link #37
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Heyy, look, Sakura got a couple of lines...Yeeeahhh....That's about it.
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Old 2013-04-24, 13:45   Link #38
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Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
Suigetsu will defeat madara
Maybe who knows ?
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Old 2013-04-24, 15:40   Link #39
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ughhh chapter went by too fast. I wanted to see the hokages but we probably are going to see Kakashi/Obito fight next chapter. Madara's rape face was pretty epic though. I thought he was going to completely bail on the battle to go find him. Something tells me the 10 tails will absorb harashima and be complete or something.

also I'm sick of this naruto friendship crap already. We get the point just kill each other already!
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Old 2013-04-24, 18:15   Link #40
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...So the alliance is made even more pathetic as they aren't even made to be able to use the kyuubi chakra themselves or even simply use kyuubi-enhanced versions of their own defensive techniques to, for instance, actually do something. I expected at least that much considering the explanation of the chakra having to be converted to each of their types... I guess the explanation was simply more Naruto fanservice, to showcase the Kyuubi's awesome power, Naruto's exceptional battle intelligence, and his now incredible talents working with chakra. “Sharing the glory” indeed.

I think its pretty unfortunate the alliance is made so weak that Naruto would have probably made more of an impact by simply creating a bunch of clones. I guess this is the part when we sit and wait until they're defeated, only for Naruto to be given more powerups (that are much needed, of course) by Minato to take away the big win when everyone else is very decisively beaten, disillusioned, and hopeless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
Suigetsu will defeat madara
You know, that sounds ridiculous to me not because of the difference in their caliber, but more so that it doesn't mention Suigetsu receiving some kind of benediction from Naruto, or Naruto not delivering the final blow. Apparently noone in the alliance is allowed to do anything of much significance without his involvement.
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