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Old 2013-04-19, 09:26   Link #641
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^ Future Trunks would be a most welcome addition. But how would you feel if they continued on and just used the present Trunks at a later age?
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Old 2013-04-19, 09:34   Link #642
GDB
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He's annoying and his age makes no difference in that department (see: end of Z, GT). Future Trunks or bust.
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Old 2013-04-19, 09:37   Link #643
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^ Well, we can disregard GT since it never happened. The one at the end of Z seems a bit more cocky and arrogant like Vegeta, whereas Future Trunks is more humble and respectful. Is it those personality traits that you find annoying?
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Old 2013-04-19, 09:43   Link #644
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The Movie clearly states that there is a Multi-verse and we already have Time Travel and multiple existing time lines. So even though GT and DBO aren't part of the mainline DBZ verse anymore I wouldn't say they don't exist... They just aren't main canon, they're secondary canon and thus have no bearing on future developments for the DBZ verse anymore.

Though I'm sure they will find a way to reuse at least SSJ4 as it was the most popular thing from GT. Baby Saga wasn't that bad either, though the whole Machine World thing that set it up was pretty bad... As was everything before that. Super 17 was also popular as was SSJ4 Gogeta.

The main issue many seemed to have at the time was that it was full on Goku Time... While this movie was full on Goku Time too but it's widely praised for it.

Had GT cut out a lot of the horrible first act, Kid Goku, and made better use of some characters, like Gohan, it wouldn't have been all that bad.
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Old 2013-04-19, 09:45   Link #645
GDB
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Pretty much. Plus how he (as Gotenks, usually) is totally cool with toying with his opponent when the world is on the line, and doesn't take anything really seriously. Even at the end of Z he'd stopped training, doesn't want to enter the tournament, and starts to whine when Vegeta threatens him to enter. Goten isn't much better in this regard, but he's basically just Trunks' sidekick and nothing else.

Future Trunks, on the other hand, diced Frieza into tiny bits in about 5 seconds. And, like you said, took more after Gohan and Bulma than Vegeta.

And the GT reference was merely a "how the writers would make him act" sort of thing.
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Old 2013-04-19, 09:45   Link #646
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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The only concept of GT I liked was the shadow dragons. The Yin-Yang balance of the dragonballs was interesting. So much more could have been done with that idea, but of course the execution of it was terrible since it's GT.
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Old 2013-04-19, 21:05   Link #647
kenjiharima
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I doubt he hates Vegeta. After all, he gave Vegeta the final panel in the Z manga. If he hates anyone at this point, it's probably Goku, since he's seemingly not allowed to write a story where Goku isn't the ultimate champion.
That is why I want an ova focus story on Vegeta alone.

A Vegeta spin off would also be good story.

For now I wanna see an Teen Gotenks teaming up with Gogeta. That would be awesome.
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Old 2013-04-19, 22:05   Link #648
ChainLegacy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The only concept of GT I liked was the shadow dragons. The Yin-Yang balance of the dragonballs was interesting. So much more could have been done with that idea, but of course the execution of it was terrible since it's GT.
Yeah, I liked that idea as well. If it were done right it would perhaps explain what the true source of power of the Dragonballs were (perhaps harnessing some primal energy of the universe beyond the power of the Kais or something), after all, in some ways they're the most powerful magic/force in the DB universe. All we really get is that "Nameks can do that," which is okay I guess, but pretty damn random.

I really, really disliked GT, though. Couldn't even enjoy it as a kid when I was obsessed with DBZ. Everything about it just seemed "off," it had none of the spark from the first two series. Forgetful Toriyama did have talent at one point and his lack of involvement in GT was painfully obvious, though I'm questioning if perhaps his own ability to create that 'spark' has begun to evaporate with the years, given his recent works.
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Old 2013-04-19, 23:04   Link #649
justavisitor
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Reading the past few pages, and here is some of the thought on the movie, and DBZ in general

It doesn't seem like Goku uses Dragon-fist in the movie? What a shame. Everyone is talking how Vegeta is stronger than Goku in his SSJ2, but imo SSJ3 + Dragon Fist is the perfect combination that can overcome a lot of opponents. Dragon Fist is like trying to unleash the full potential of the massive raw power in SSJ3 at once. It is also so focused on the opponent that it's like Goku can unleash all his power on Dragon Fist without any worry of destroying the planet.

Imo Dragon Fist compensates the weakness of rapid energy-draining in SSJ3 and takes advantage of the massive raw power from SSJ3. I was counting on this movie to see this awesome move again, and now I wonder whether Dragon Fist is an official technique (GT doesn't count and the last movie (Dragon fist) was not canon to some ppl XD)

And regarding to the DBZ franchise, doubt they can continue anymore. They could talk about Future Trunk but I am sure that the audience will compare him with Goku and would have comments like "Goku would have finished the fight early" and it is just not good.

About Mystic Gohan, I like young gohan but the author just destroys this character in the buu saga. He became goofy, and that's Goku's job. Maybe he is trying to replace his daddy after goku goes to the afterlife, but it's not something I like to see. And the power up he got is so cheap in the buu saga. How could we expect Gohan to be the final hero in the buu saga when he slacks off in the past 7 years and the power up he got is due to his patience of willing to sit for a couple of hours? No pain, no gain. And I doubt that's the audiences want to see and it's no surprise that he becomes a side kick later on (in dragon fist and the latest movie I guess). The author simply just destroys the whole character.
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Old 2013-04-20, 07:10   Link #650
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^ Agreed. Cell Saga Gohan was the pinnacle of his character for me as well. Sadly, it looks like his glorious days are over. Gohan's gotten the shaft big time.

But if they were to make a new series or set of movies, they can change all of this nonsense and actually make other characters besides Goku viable again. Continuity has been thrown out the window, so this is a chance to start with a clean slate (as I've said before in this thread).
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Old 2013-04-20, 17:59   Link #651
TnAdct1
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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
About Mystic Gohan, I like young gohan but the author just destroys this character in the buu saga. He became goofy, and that's Goku's job. Maybe he is trying to replace his daddy after goku goes to the afterlife, but it's not something I like to see. And the power up he got is so cheap in the buu saga. How could we expect Gohan to be the final hero in the buu saga when he slacks off in the past 7 years and the power up he got is due to his patience of willing to sit for a couple of hours? No pain, no gain. And I doubt that's the audiences want to see and it's no surprise that he becomes a side kick later on (in dragon fist and the latest movie I guess). The author simply just destroys the whole character.
Reading this and keeping in mind the events of the Buu Saga, there's a few things I want to mention in terms of Gohan's "downgrade":

-First and foremost, the main future goal for Gohan in terms of Chichi wasn't to have him be a fighter (even if he is capable to surpass Goku) but rather a scholar. Yes, Gohan is still someone who can fight to protect the world. However, given the seven years between Cell and Buu, this was pretty much a peaceful time in which he didn't need to get involved in various threats, and as such most of his time was spent training the brain instead of training the body.

-One huge reason why Gohan is so goofy in the Buu arc, besides the fact that he's now a teen in this point, is due to him pretty much spending most of his life in the wooded area that has been the home for Goku and his family since his arrival on Earth. The fact that he's starting to go regular school (and having to use a superhero identity to hide his Super Saiyan form) ends up resulting in a "country boy in the city" trope that would lead to some comedic moments.
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Old 2013-04-20, 23:01   Link #652
justavisitor
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@TnAdct1
I suppose you are right, but I still expect adult gohan to be a bit more serious...I understand most of those goofy moments are for comedic relief, but the young gohan would not do those saiyaman pose at all XD (Unless he actually admired the Ginyu force secretly )

And I don't know if it is intentional or for the purpose of the plot, Adult gohan has a lot of horrendous negligence in the buu saga. He thinks his gf has a chance to beat the evil henchman, toying with super buu (completely forget the lesson against cell, but this may be the fault of the anime team to prolong the fight), let gotenk fight super buu, etc. He may be strong, but imo his lack of proper judgement is just an eyesore. Perhaps this is because of the lack of training, or he just does not have the killer instinct like his father (and Future Trunks is just so superb at killing the enemy fast)

Had DBZ ended in cell saga, I think Gohan would be portrayed as a super individual who could do well both in academic and fighting (like the movie against Bojack), and I think the author had been giving hints throughout the manga that gohan could achieve that status....well, but what is done is done I guess.
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Old 2013-04-23, 23:12   Link #653
kenjiharima
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Gohan probably got the Saiyaman idea from the Ginyu force. Even Vegeta danced in the movie.
Also I think as a growing kid Gohan has changes in heart and likes, he's still very gifted to become a Mystic in just training in just a span of time.

One thing though that nearly all saiyan's have in their blood is that they let enemies get stronger and get the upper hand, they always like a challenge. Goku and Vegeta are the pinnacle of this most especially Vegito, that arrogance he could have killed Super Buu even in non-SS form.

This is where F.Trunks comes in mind that he wants to finish fights quickly. Like the imperfect cell before he reaches his final form because he has more experience losing people and destroy evil now rather than seek a challenge of a fight for power. Guessing Bulma's blood runs more on the son than the father.
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Old 2013-04-23, 23:17   Link #654
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I wonder, has it been confirmed or implied (either directly or indirectly in some way) as to whether Goku's SSJ god form surpasses Super Vegito's power? Just curious.
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Old 2013-04-24, 08:39   Link #655
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I wonder, has it been confirmed or implied (either directly or indirectly in some way) as to whether Goku's SSJ god form surpasses Super Vegito's power? Just curious.
Bils was confirmed as the strongest villain in the Dragon Ball canon by Toriyama himself, but SSJ God Goku is still weaker than him. There's no real way to quantify exactly how Super Vegito fits into this equation.
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Old 2013-04-24, 08:43   Link #656
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Well theoretically Vegito can go Super Saiyan God, maybe.

Do they have enough Saiyans for that though, probably not.
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Old 2013-04-24, 09:20   Link #657
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Well theoretically Vegito can go Super Saiyan God, maybe.

Do they have enough Saiyans for that though, probably not.
If pan worked than we just need to wait for another kid from gohan, goten or Trunks
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Old 2013-04-24, 09:38   Link #658
Masuzu
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I guess it's all up to weather Vegito is counted as one person.
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Old 2013-04-24, 09:43   Link #659
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I guess it's all up to weather Vegito is counted as one person.
Gogeta = doubt it but Vegito = 90% yes
since he should stay as one person till the end of his life if it not for buu magic
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Old 2013-04-24, 10:24   Link #660
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If pan worked than we just need to wait for another kid from gohan, goten or Trunks
Or simply Vegeta and Bulma's daugher Bra. She was born shortly after Pan.
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