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Old 2013-04-25, 10:10   Link #38241
XenahortCharybdis
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With an upgrade to Valkyrie for the Shiny Sparkly All-Killing Self-Healing Exp-Stealing Vampire. I guess that works too, why not?

Starlight, Aura Bombing and Fortify Spam. Sounds like a good plan for the whole party.
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Old 2013-04-25, 13:37   Link #38242
Twi
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Originally Posted by Kireen View Post
He eventually starts to get involved after returning form one of his works and sensing a magical battle nearby, he decides to go and take a look.

As of the TSAB, I plan to have him give informations about the MA, despite having few friends inside the clock tower, he'll be quite glad to see it crumble since he dislikes most of the magi. He'll also agree to let the TSAB monitor him.
The TSAB can't do jack about the Mage's Association. Earth is a non-administrated world, they literally have no authority over what the native mages do if it doesn't involve a Lost Logia, which in all honesty, if there is one on earth, they also have no right to retrieve should the MA find.

Personal feelings and questionable morals aside, it would set a bad precedence of them subjugating another world's magic system and make a lot of other non-administrated worlds or worlds with magic styles other than Mid-Chidian that know of them weary of them.

Not to mention that the TSAB is an infantile organization with barely enough resources as is. Do you really think they can take a PR hit like that? Or, should the MA fight back? Or if they become enough of a threat to awaken Alaya or Gaia and get Arc or CGs on them?

Shirou can tell them about MA, but they can't do a thing about it.
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Old 2013-04-25, 13:51   Link #38243
Rising Dragon
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If the Lost Logia is a danger to the planet or the dimension, then I daresay the Bureau would intervene regardless of what the Mages' Association wants. And frankly speaking, I'd rather the Bureau handle it than letting that collection of accidents-waiting-to-happen deal with a Lost Logia. Save for Waver and Rin, those involved in the Clock Tower are way too goddamn stupid or dangerous due to a magus' mindset.
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Old 2013-04-25, 14:25   Link #38244
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Vs a magus, will a Nanohaverse mage win?
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Old 2013-04-25, 14:29   Link #38245
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Vs a magus, will a Nanohaverse mage win?
Can a man from China beat a man from Brazil?

It's a ridiculously vague question.
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Old 2013-04-25, 14:29   Link #38246
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Vs a magus, will a Nanohaverse mage win?
Depends on what the magus' magecraft involves, I suppose. Even then, though, my money would be on a Nanohaverse mage if they're able to fly.
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Old 2013-04-25, 14:32   Link #38247
Kireen
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Originally Posted by Twi View Post
The TSAB can't do jack about the Mage's Association. Earth is a non-administrated world, they literally have no authority over what the native mages do if it doesn't involve a Lost Logia, which in all honesty, if there is one on earth, they also have no right to retrieve should the MA find.

Personal feelings and questionable morals aside, it would set a bad precedence of them subjugating another world's magic system and make a lot of other non-administrated worlds or worlds with magic styles other than Mid-Chidian that know of them weary of them.

Not to mention that the TSAB is an infantile organization with barely enough resources as is. Do you really think they can take a PR hit like that? Or, should the MA fight back? Or if they become enough of a threat to awaken Alaya or Gaia and get Arc or CGs on them?

Shirou can tell them about MA, but they can't do a thing about it.
You raise a valid point, and in truth I don't plan for the TSAB to take action, but just to observe for the moment, it's Shirou's expectation to see them do something once he tells them how things work on Earth. I also plan to move the setting fully on Mid after a I'm done with the first two seasons and eventually GOD, so I hope to be able to dodge the issue as much as I can.

As for an eventual Lost Logia I think that they would have something to say if a group of morally distorted techophobes tries to get their hands on one, Lost Logia and MA together call lots of trouble by default IMO.

Then I also have to add that the TSAB has a pretty good numerical advantage by the looks of things, but then again they don't have anything like Arc or Zelretch on their side, so yeah, it's quite difficult to figure out how a war between the two factions would end.

Also, regarding Gaia and Alaya, if they don't lift a finger when the book of darkness goes on rampage, why would they move when the TSAB attacks.

The reason why I'm still blocked on a speculative level is because the whole thing is too damned difficult to make in work and make sense of it without ignoring something.

@ Lhklan Nice prologue, but I think that I'll wait for something more joicy before giving my opinion.
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Old 2013-04-25, 15:58   Link #38248
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Kireen

Actually if you consider Alaya I think she DID act.

Specifically the Counter Force was at work there. Counter Force empowers and pushes normal people into dealing with the threat. It essentially takes a normal person and makes them willing to face that threat and erase it.

That's pretty much what Nanoha and her friends did.

If they would fail and the Book of Darkness started to grow without anything keeping it in check then Alaya would deploy the Counter Guardians and erase the whole area. Though I'm curious how would it react to the use of Arc en Ciel, would it deploy Counter Guardians against Asura for killing lots of humans or would it accept it as part of Counter Force's actions...
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:00   Link #38249
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With how indiscriminate the Counter Guardians are (what with EMIYA remarking on killing the guilty and innocent alike), if it was used to stop the Book of Darkness, Alaya would take it in stride, I think.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:09   Link #38250
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
If the Lost Logia is a danger to the planet or the dimension, then I daresay the Bureau would intervene regardless of what the Mages' Association wants. And frankly speaking, I'd rather the Bureau handle it than letting that collection of accidents-waiting-to-happen deal with a Lost Logia. Save for Waver and Rin, those involved in the Clock Tower are way too goddamn stupid or dangerous due to a magus' mindset.
Do you think a Nasuverse Magus would deny themselves access to anything that might possibly lead them to the Root? Risk to the world be damned? Mages do that all the time, hence why they take steps to prevent Gaia or Alaya from noticing if they can help it, so the CG or CF don't get involved.

They would fight tooth and nail to keep anything that could help them reach the Root, alien mages included. Shoot, they'd capture alien mages just to experiment on and learn how they click.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:15   Link #38251
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Shoot, they'd capture alien mages just to experiment on and learn how they click.
That's one of the things that make my skin crawl because I can see Nanoha or Fate (both as kids) strapped to a dissection table...
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:24   Link #38252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andarkoshi View Post
That's one of the things that make my skin crawl because I can see Nanoha or Fate (both as kids) strapped to a dissection table...
I'll dislike them for it....
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:26   Link #38253
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I'll dislike them for it....
You wonder WHY I want those two worlds separated?
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:27   Link #38254
Kireen
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Well, we know that nasuverse mages are huge dicks, that's a fact.

And yeah, if you put it taht way the counter force did it's work, but I expect something bigger to happen when the whole world is in danger, heck once the defense program materialize I'd expect at least a group of counter guardians as the welcome commitee.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:30   Link #38255
Andarkoshi
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Well, we know that nasuverse mages are huge dicks, that's a fact.

And yeah, if you put it taht way the counter force did it's work, but I expect something bigger to happen when the whole world is in danger, heck once the defense program materialize I'd expect at least a group of counter guardians as the welcome commitee.
Let me rephrase that.

Three young mages each with WMD level of Power. Four ancient combat programs, and a warship capable of shooting magical Mega-Nukes. That's quite big if you ask me, if Counter Guardians WOULD appear then Book of Darkness, Team Nanoha and large chunk of Uminari would be wiped out...

Counter Guardians are deployed as Last Resort and when They Come nothing is left standing.

Edit. I forgot to mention this little bit, Counter Force empowers it's agents with the Exact amount of power necessary to counter the threat. Not more, the rest is in the hands of the agents. If the exact amount is not enough then Alaya goes for Overwhelming amount of power in the form of Counter Guardians.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:35   Link #38256
Kireen
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Yeah, but let's admit it A's final victory was a last minute colossal gamble, the situation was quite desperate until the very last second.

And by the way, does the counter force influence the Wolkenritter and the Mid-childa born people?
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:36   Link #38257
Twi
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That's one of the things that make my skin crawl because I can see Nanoha or Fate (both as kids) strapped to a dissection table...
Don't forget Arf and Yuuno, maybe even Nanoha's family since her link to magic had to come from somewhere, maybe those two girls she hung out with to be safe since they might have some potential, Hayate and her guardians too, although the casualty count would be high, etc...

Yeah, Nasuverse isn't exactly know for treating children well. Precia is abusive and that's unforgivable, but compared to Zouken that's kid gloves. Imagine if Fate had to go through tha....no, nevermind, wipe it from your thoughts.

Counter Force can influence earthborn mages and humans, but so far the only one who's stood out as a bit of an exception was Enjou from Knk, which was how he escaped to find Shiki. He was a brain remotely linked to a body.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:40   Link #38258
Andarkoshi
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Yeah, but let's admit it A's final victory was a last minute colossal gamble, the situation was quite desperate until the very last second.

And by the way, does the counter force influence the Wolkenritter and the Mid-childa born people?
Edit. I forgot to mention this little bit, Counter Force empowers it's agents with the Exact amount of power necessary to counter the threat. Not more, the rest is in the hands of the agents. If the exact amount is not enough then Alaya goes for Overwhelming amount of power in the form of Counter Guardians.

So yes it was desperate but they won and that means that the amount of power Alaya gave was enough.

Good question, in a way you could say that Nanoha was the sole tool of Alaya since neither Wolkies nor TSAB people (Yuuno and Fate included) belong her.

Twi

That's why I want to keep those two worlds separate, if they were connected... my abusively active imagination comes up with horror scenarios that make my blood cold...

Hayate strapped to a table, concious while they are cutting into her trying to figure out how the Book affects her paralysis.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:44   Link #38259
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Twi View Post
Do you think a Nasuverse Magus would deny themselves access to anything that might possibly lead them to the Root? Risk to the world be damned? Mages do that all the time, hence why they take steps to prevent Gaia or Alaya from noticing if they can help it, so the CG or CF don't get involved.

They would fight tooth and nail to keep anything that could help them reach the Root, alien mages included. Shoot, they'd capture alien mages just to experiment on and learn how they click.
That's pretty much the point I was making about the MA. The right of who owns it doesn't matter if it's a threat, the Bureau will intervene, and I daresay I'd want them doing it rather than those dangerous fools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andarkoshi View Post
Edit. I forgot to mention this little bit, Counter Force empowers it's agents with the Exact amount of power necessary to counter the threat. Not more, the rest is in the hands of the agents. If the exact amount is not enough then Alaya goes for Overwhelming amount of power in the form of Counter Guardians.

So yes it was desperate but they won and that means that the amount of power Alaya gave was enough.

Good question, in a way you could say that Nanoha was the sole tool of Alaya since neither Wolkies nor TSAB people (Yuuno and Fate included) belong her.
Not just Nanoha, but Nanoha and Hayate both were what was needed to halt the Book of Darkness. And both are native, so how 'bout that?
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:49   Link #38260
Twi
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Originally Posted by Andarkoshi View Post
Edit. I forgot to mention this little bit, Counter Force empowers it's agents with the Exact amount of power necessary to counter the threat. Not more, the rest is in the hands of the agents. If the exact amount is not enough then Alaya goes for Overwhelming amount of power in the form of Counter Guardians.

So yes it was desperate but they won and that means that the amount of power Alaya gave was enough.

Good question, in a way you could say that Nanoha was the sole tool of Alaya since neither Wolkies nor TSAB people (Yuuno and Fate included) belong her.

Twi

That's why I want to keep those two worlds separate, if they were connected... my abusively active imagination comes up with horror scenarios that make my blood cold...

Hayate strapped to a table, concious while they are cutting into her trying to figure out how the Book affects her paralysis.
Alaya could have partial influence over the guardians by rallying their mistress, so once she was healed she would fall under Alaya, maybe even influcing her will to join with Reinforce. That's the problem with CF, you never know if you're the one making the decisions or if a higher power is guiding you. That's some fridge horror right there.

Also Nasuverse maguses in majority make even Jail look moral, so in all honesty, I don't blame you for keeping the worlds separate. Even if the TSAB knows that there is a Mage Association, the general consensus would probably be to stay away from them at all costs.

As for the TSAB and Nasuverse handing the Lost Logia, that would evole into a conflict that would escalate fast. TSAB may be more qualified, and may triumph, but there will be blood involved and there would be a politcal storm considering that Earth is nowhere near Mid-Chidia or an administrated world so the fall out of a lost logia would be miniscule in reaching them.

And if the masquerade on magc gets broken and more conflict erupts, the TSAB will be responsible for that as well and their PR will be even worse than before. They'd have to report their involvement and even if it was covered up, as long as two of the three Aces are known from earth and someone just decides to travel there and learn about the chaos that erupted, then they'd be caught in a lie. Not to mention that I'm sure the TSAB has some enemies somewhere that would jump on the chance to throw them into the fire over starting a global war.

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