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Old 2013-04-25, 16:49   Link #38261
Kireen
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Are we even sure that Hayate is native, for what we know Graham could have picked her up from an orphanage on Mid.
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Old 2013-04-25, 16:50   Link #38262
Andarkoshi
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
That's pretty much the point I was making about the MA. The right to who owns it doesn't matter if it's a threat, the Bureau will intervene, and I daresay I'd want them doing it rather than those dangerous fools.
The problem is that it would probably result in a battle/war and even though Magi don't have the resources or firepower of TSAB they are cunning, ruthless and very secretive bunch. A very bloody and horrible guerilla war would break out...



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Not just Nanoha, but Nanoha and Hayate both were what was needed to halt the Book of Darkness. And both are native, so how 'bout that?
You have a point, I kinda omitted Hayate since she Was part of the threat...

Twi

Yeah it's all a bit complex as far as authority goes. Actually I could even see Gaia doing something about Book since it threatens not only humans but ALL life on Earth.

Kireen

Hard to say really... there might have been a mention of Hayate's parents dying in a car accident and she is pretty well established (paperwork and all) on Earth so... who knows. Also her name and appearance (I assume she Looks asian) would fit Japan.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:12   Link #38263
Rising Dragon
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As for the TSAB and Nasuverse handing the Lost Logia, that would evole into a conflict that would escalate fast. TSAB may be more qualified, and may triumph, but there will be blood involved and there would be a politcal storm considering that Earth is nowhere near Mid-Chidia or an administrated world so the fall out of a lost logia would be miniscule in reaching them.

And if the masquerade on magc gets broken and more conflict erupts, the TSAB will be responsible for that as well and their PR will be even worse than before. They'd have to report their involvement and even if it was covered up, as long as two of the three Aces are known from earth and someone just decides to travel there and learn about the chaos that erupted, then they'd be caught in a lie. Not to mention that I'm sure the TSAB has some enemies somewhere that would jump on the chance to throw them into the fire over starting a global war.

Walking on glass, all the way.
The masquerade is less likely to be broken than most would think, and if it does get broken, it'd be the Association's fault. The Bureau has access to dimensional barriers like the ones scene in the first two seasons, and it takes massive amounts of magical firepower to break said barriers in the first place. You'd need something along the lines of anti-fortress class Noble Phantasms on the MA side of things, which is probably unlikely.

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Are we even sure that Hayate is native, for what we know Graham could have picked her up from an orphanage on Mid.
I've been seeing this a lot lately on TFF, so I'll say this only once: Graham had nothing to do with Hayate acquiring the Book of Darkness. She is a born human native who by chance was found out by Graham once the Book had come into her possession.

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You have a point, I kinda omitted Hayate since she Was part of the threat...
Well, yes and no. Yes, she's the Master of the Book of Darkness. No, because she had forbid her Wolkenritter from causing problems and wasn't the mastermind behind the problems; and the Book is sentient in its own right. And ultimately she put a stop to it herself in the end, with Nanoha and everyone else's help in destroying it.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:16   Link #38264
Andarkoshi
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Well, yes and no. Yes, she's the Master of the Book of Darkness. No, because she had forbid her Wolkenritter from causing problems and wasn't the mastermind behind the problems; and the Book is sentient in its own right. And ultimately she put a stop to it herself in the end, with Nanoha and everyone else's help in destroying it.
True but then again would Alaya see it that way? Though the part with ordering them NOT to collect linker cores and therefore preventing Book's full activation sounds like a good Plan A, shame that the Book countered it with advancing paralysis and Wolkies had to engage in Plan B.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:28   Link #38265
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The masquerade is less likely to be broken than most would think, and if it does get broken, it'd be the Association's fault. The Bureau has access to dimensional barriers like the ones scene in the first two seasons, and it takes massive amounts of magical firepower to break said barriers in the first place. You'd need something along the lines of anti-fortress class Noble Phantasms on the MA side of things, which is probably unlikely.
Or you kill the one maintaining the barrier. Hell, Gaia may see it as a perversion of the rules and crush it to the extent that the one throwing up the barrier can't hold it enough. Or, the CF might inspire a magus to take said Lost Logia and drop it so deep in the ocean no one can find it or something in hopes that breaks the conflict. Or Zelretch might take it with him to another dimension.

There's too many ways that any sort of conflict could cause unexpected variables, especially when there are two different systems of magic clashing. The fact is, no one wins in these cases as lives are lost. Nasuverse mages will not bend their pride, even if the world is caught in the crossfire, and the TSAB still has no authority or right to mess with a world not under their authority, not for something as dubious as "For their own good" or something similar.

Ask the people who attend this forum, would they want some outsiders telling them what to do and claiming it's for their own good? The counter force gets away with it because most people don't know they've been manipulated to such an extent. Joan of Arc was one of the few exceptions in that she didn't know it was the CF helping her, but she at least knew it was a higher power and she got burned alive for it, which indicates that the counter force only cares about solving an issue rather than whether its pawn survives or not.

If the Lost Logia was a threat, Gaia and Alaya would take care of it through overwhelming force or just enough, good or bad means. Maybe a nuke wipes out the location that housed it or maybe a landslide buries it became some miner misplaced a stick of dynamite.

Graham even finding her might be the CF. All those by chance coincidences sound more like the Counter Force at work. He just so happened to find a girl with magic and an artifact that can destroy the world on his native planet? She happens to be in the same city as Nanoha, she who befriends through fire power, with him paying for her housing and everything. That's a little too coincidental considering he lived in Britain, had no reason to be in Japan, and I'm fairly sure that there are other cities with better hospitals.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:36   Link #38266
Kireen
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I've been seeing this a lot lately on TFF, so I'll say this only once: Graham had nothing to do with Hayate acquiring the Book of Darkness. She is a born human native who by chance was found out by Graham once the Book had come into her possession.
That he had nthing to do with her aquiring the book is an enstablished fact, but there's no mention about where he found her.

And for the name and appearence she can just have japanese ancesty like Genya.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:43   Link #38267
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Except we know he had nothing to do with her circumstances at all until he found out she had the Book of Darkness.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:44   Link #38268
Andarkoshi
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Except we know he had nothing to do with her circumstances at all until he found out she had the Book of Darkness.
The question is WHEN did he find out? As far as we know he supported her since she was very young and he must have been on the lookout for the Book ever since Clyde died.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:55   Link #38269
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Or you kill the one maintaining the barrier. Hell, Gaia may see it as a perversion of the rules and crush it to the extent that the one throwing up the barrier can't hold it enough. Or, the CF might inspire a magus to take said Lost Logia and drop it so deep in the ocean no one can find it or something in hopes that breaks the conflict. Or Zelretch might take it with him to another dimension.
Honestly I'd facepalm if a magus attempted that. It certainly didn't work for the Jewel Seeds, after all.

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There's too many ways that any sort of conflict could cause unexpected variables, especially when there are two different systems of magic clashing. The fact is, no one wins in these cases as lives are lost. Nasuverse mages will not bend their pride, even if the world is caught in the crossfire, and the TSAB still has no authority or right to mess with a world not under their authority, not for something as dubious as "For their own good" or something similar.
I still think the conflict wouldn't end up as widespread as some would think. The dimensional barriers would help keep things under wraps, and the competitive and secretive nature of the magus families would also prevent them from really unifying together; they're more likely to constantly undercut one another so they could attain the prize. And as for this whole "no right" crap, no one really gives a fuck about the right if there's something on the planet that'll destroy it. I imagine Alaya would see that would happily let the Bureau take it the hell off her planet if that were the case.

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Ask the people who attend this forum, would they want some outsiders telling them what to do and claiming it's for their own good?
Honestly you're asking this of the wrong person, because I personally wouldn't give a shit what the people of this planet wanted if it involved an extraterrestrial artifact of doom. I wouldn't trust any government on this planet with it, let alone the Clock Tower.
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Old 2013-04-25, 17:59   Link #38270
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What was the main points of this discussion again?
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Old 2013-04-25, 18:00   Link #38271
Rising Dragon
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I have no idea.
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Old 2013-04-25, 18:01   Link #38272
Twi
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What was the main points of this discussion again?
How mixing Nasuverse and Nanohaverse together for a fanfic would cause problems...part 3?

Also, @ Rising Dragon, who said Alaya didn't? See my post about Graham and the Counter Force. I'm just saying, it would be best that the Mage's Association didn't get involved.

Umm...what were we discussing before this?
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Old 2013-04-25, 18:43   Link #38273
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How mixing Nasuverse and Nanohaverse together for a fanfic would cause problems...part 3?

Also, @ Rising Dragon, who said Alaya didn't? See my post about Graham and the Counter Force. I'm just saying, it would be best that the Mage's Association didn't get involved.

Umm...what were we discussing before this?
Report # x and Fire Emblem Aces.
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Old 2013-04-25, 19:02   Link #38274
Tiresias
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@ Rising Dragon, who said Alaya didn't? See my post about Graham and the Counter Force. I'm just saying, it would be best that the Mage's Association didn't get involved.

Why would the Association get involved? They have bloody poor Intel network and response time. The only reason an Association magus could get involved is by stumbling to the scene accidentally.


Now Alaya would definitely be involved...subtly. That's its MO.
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Old 2013-04-25, 19:45   Link #38275
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I think Arceuid will come for this one... or EMIYA.
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Old 2013-04-25, 19:53   Link #38276
Tiresias
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Only, and absolutely only, if Alaya's subtle nudging fails. Notice how the Counter Force didn't interfere during motherfuckin' Heaven's Feel.
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Old 2013-04-25, 19:58   Link #38277
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Only, and absolutely only, if Alaya's subtle nudging fails. Notice how the Counter Force didn't interfere during motherfuckin' Heaven's Feel.
Actually, I think it does. Mind of Steel, remember?
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Old 2013-04-25, 20:42   Link #38278
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Only, and absolutely only, if Alaya's subtle nudging fails. Notice how the Counter Force didn't interfere during motherfuckin' Heaven's Feel.
In all honesty, I'd say that's all that allows Shirou to win. He always gets his butt kicked, but he just barely wins with just the exact amount of power. He's the most unprepared Master of all, barring Shinji.
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Old 2013-04-25, 20:43   Link #38279
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Actually, I think it does. Mind of Steel, remember?
Oh right, that bad end.....
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Old 2013-04-25, 20:44   Link #38280
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wait, which one was that again?
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