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Old 2013-04-26, 11:55   Link #161
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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To Samari:
Just to let you know, Tony Stark hasn't been a weak drunk nerd in years. He took his superhero job seriously, which included shaping up. His body is the weakest link, which is why Tony in the comics and movie tries his best to keep his physical fitness and combat ability progressing. It only makes sense; suit or not, he now fights on a regular basis. If you fight, you would want to train. Knowing martial arts moves also helps when he is in the armour.
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Old 2013-04-26, 22:03   Link #162
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
To Samari:
Just to let you know, Tony Stark hasn't been a weak drunk nerd in years. He took his superhero job seriously, which included shaping up. His body is the weakest link, which is why Tony in the comics and movie tries his best to keep his physical fitness and combat ability progressing. It only makes sense; suit or not, he now fights on a regular basis. If you fight, you would want to train. Knowing martial arts moves also helps when he is in the armour.
We aren't told this in the film though. Or the previous films. That's my point. The only hint we get is that he has a martial arts stand. That doesn't mean anything. Expecting the audience to already know what Tony is combat proficient and can infiltrate a facility while taking out armed guards using martial arts and dodging folks left and right Jackie Chan style is just lazy to me and serves as just a means to get from point A to B. He makes it seem like anyone could walk in and be a badass. All you need is a martial arts prop in your studio! I'm going to watch the film again in the near future to see if my opinion has changed, but right now that is one of the major problems with this film for me.
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Old 2013-04-27, 03:52   Link #163
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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So I assume you will demand that Stark be a weakling for all future films? Even though you just saw what he could do in IM3? I look forward to you complaining about the same thing all over again in Avengers 2.

Do realise that they aren't going to dedicate any time in the film for training montages. This isn't Rocky. They give hints that he learned some martial arts, and that's it. But they aren't going to focus on it because it is a waste of screen time. This is not a TV series, they would dedicate what part of the film be spent on what.

Tony is now a reasonably competent fighter. You can accept that or not, but that won't change the official events.
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Old 2013-04-27, 07:18   Link #164
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
So I assume you will demand that Stark be a weakling for all future films? Even though you just saw what he could do in IM3? I look forward to you complaining about the same thing all over again in Avengers 2.

Do realise that they aren't going to dedicate any time in the film for training montages. This isn't Rocky. They give hints that he learned some martial arts, and that's it. But they aren't going to focus on it because it is a waste of screen time. This is not a TV series, they would dedicate what part of the film be spent on what.

Tony is now a reasonably competent fighter. You can accept that or not, but that won't change the official events.
No, I just ask that a film be consistent with a character based on the internal logic that film franchise has established, instead of pulling something out of their ass and saying a character has a trait that is all too convenient in order to progress through the story. It works against what has already been established for the character. I don't think asking for that kind of consistency within the story is asking too much as a viewer.

Stark doesn't have to know martial arts in order not to be a weakling. He's a genius and has built powerful suits of armor. How does that make him weak? Did you really think he was weak before he was doing his Jackie Chan stunts?

And saying that it isn't necessary to dedicate any screen time to something important to the story is just an excuse for lazy writing. Please. By that logic you can make up whatever element within any story and not have to have any exposition at all because it isn't convenient to your time constraints. A montage wasn't even necessary, but they could do better than a glimpse of a wooden fighting stand. That could mean anything. They could have had some throwaway lines. That would have been better than what was offered, which was speculative at best. And reasonably competent fighter is different from being a Harlem Globetrotter martial artist. Dude was dodging bullets and bouncing off walls practically.

The only thing I've accepted is that it's a major plot hole. Because that was what was provided. Unfortunately you'll just have to deal with that reality.
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Old 2013-04-27, 10:27   Link #165
houkoholic
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Sorry but I have to agree with Vallen Chaos Valiant about Tony's ass kicking ability in Iron Man 3 is not inconsistent.

We know from Iron Man 2 that he has already been training in combat focused mix martial arts, on top of that during Avengers he meets lots of physically superior superhumans/demi-gods who more than once makes fun of him about how he is nothing without his armour (heck even normal people like Hawkeye and Black Widow would remind Tony how he's not much help without his armour). I really don't think Tony in that one year after New York is just going to go "well I've got my armours and I'm going to make more of them!" and just going to shrug off that glaring physical weakness of his which is pointed out so many times - especially one of the point of Iron Man 3 is that he was preparing for war/invasion the entire time, it would be logical to think he'd been training his ass off just in the case where he would come across a situation where he would be without his suit, and just like that line he said in the movie - real man have backup plans (or something like that), and just relying on his suits is not a backup plan.
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Old 2013-04-27, 17:18   Link #166
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic View Post
Sorry but I have to agree with Vallen Chaos Valiant about Tony's ass kicking ability in Iron Man 3 is not inconsistent.

We know from Iron Man 2 that he has already been training in combat focused mix martial arts, on top of that during Avengers he meets lots of physically superior superhumans/demi-gods who more than once makes fun of him about how he is nothing without his armour (heck even normal people like Hawkeye and Black Widow would remind Tony how he's not much help without his armour). I really don't think Tony in that one year after New York is just going to go "well I've got my armours and I'm going to make more of them!" and just going to shrug off that glaring physical weakness of his which is pointed out so many times - especially one of the point of Iron Man 3 is that he was preparing for war/invasion the entire time, it would be logical to think he'd been training his ass off just in the case where he would come across a situation where he would be without his suit, and just like that line he said in the movie - real man have backup plans (or something like that), and just relying on his suits is not a backup plan.
I didn't mention that Tony isn't a reasonably good fighter. He is seen in a boxing ring in Iron Man 2 and then has a martial arts fighting stand in Iron Man 3. That is it. Just because the other members of the Avengers noted he wasn't much without his armor doesn't mean we should assume Tony is suddenly Solid Snake. What they were saying was the truth. There is a difference between training in a gym and actually having experience doing tactical espionage. Essentially anyone could train in a gym for 6 months to a year and be able to do what Tony does in Iron Man 3 in terms of just kicking everyone's ass that comes across your way. I think they went a little overboard. It is what it is. Tony can now rival Jackie Chan. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. Iron Man 3 has bigger problems anyways. I'll let it be.
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Old 2013-04-27, 23:15   Link #167
houkoholic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samari View Post
I didn't mention that Tony isn't a reasonably good fighter. He is seen in a boxing ring in Iron Man 2 and then has a martial arts fighting stand in Iron Man 3. That is it. Just because the other members of the Avengers noted he wasn't much without his armor doesn't mean we should assume Tony is suddenly Solid Snake. What they were saying was the truth. There is a difference between training in a gym and actually having experience doing tactical espionage. Essentially anyone could train in a gym for 6 months to a year and be able to do what Tony does in Iron Man 3 in terms of just kicking everyone's ass that comes across your way. I think they went a little overboard. It is what it is. Tony can now rival Jackie Chan. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. Iron Man 3 has bigger problems anyways. I'll let it be.
I don't see how he was rivalling Jackie Chan. He used home made weapons to disable a few security guards, and all of his home made weapons are of some kind of electric stun-gun variations so all he needed was just one clean shot (doesn't even need to be vital spots) plus he mixed it into his martial arts training. Also speaking of Solid Snake which is ironic and completely demolishes your point - in the Metal Gear series Solid Snake trains with Virtual Reality equipment and simulations for his espionage skills and tactics, so it's not like Tony can't do the same in his own home either with Javis' help. And also when he is Iron Man he doesn't always goes in through the front door or use brute force so it's not like he's not a tactician in nature either. As for home gym - I really doubt Tony's "gym" is going to be any normal gym and refer to VR training point before. He's not the type of guy to go half-ass because of his huge ego, and when he is determined to do something he'll do it no matter what, so it's also safe to say he won't gimp out on some secret service agent type training either.

Again, when the series had hammered on the point on "Tony Stark is useless without his armour" for a few times already and the movie about him preparing for all out invasion from god knows who, it's really logical that Tony is going to train to be at least be as capable as a good secret service agent type.
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Old 2013-04-28, 09:42   Link #168
ReddyRedWolf
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I know they are going for the Arc reactor being no longer a crutch for Tony but the Arc did save him from exotic alien tech... Twice.

With the Arc the suit was able to absorb the electricity Thor was throwing at him. With the Arc over his heart it spared him from Loki's mind control.

The reason being the new element he created was based on the particles emitted by the Tesseract. When Howard Stark got hold of Hydra tech and the cube itself.
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Old 2013-04-28, 17:06   Link #169
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
I know they are going for the Arc reactor being no longer a crutch for Tony but the Arc did save him from exotic alien tech... Twice.

With the Arc the suit was able to absorb the electricity Thor was throwing at him. With the Arc over his heart it spared him from Loki's mind control.

The reason being the new element he created was based on the particles emitted by the Tesseract. When Howard Stark got hold of Hydra tech and the cube itself.
Still, the reactor no longer serve a purpose at this stage. If he needed to, Stark can turn himself into a cyborg, but right now simply wearing the reactor doesn't do much any more.
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Old 2013-04-28, 18:09   Link #170
germanturkey
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just jumping into the conversation: Tony got combat lessons from Captain America in the comics.
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Old 2013-04-28, 18:09   Link #171
Shyni
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I saw this movie and I'm a little confused by the Mandarin.

Spoiler for Iron Man movie stuffs:

Last edited by Shyni; 2013-04-28 at 18:30.
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Old 2013-04-28, 21:06   Link #172
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
I saw this movie and I'm a little confused by the Mandarin.

Spoiler for Iron Man movie stuffs:
Spoiler for Ten Rings:
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Old 2013-04-29, 07:04   Link #173
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Spoiler for Ten Rings:
Privatized terrorism along the lines of what Gaddafi did supporting various terrorist and insurgent groups around the globe.

In my country alone the bastard help fund the from the Muslim separatist (back then) MILF to the Maoist CPP-NPA and likely the kidnap for ransom group Abu Sayaf.

So one can say the idea of a Mandarin was based on him.
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Old 2013-04-29, 08:23   Link #174
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I'm been reading both positive and negative feedback about this film. I wonder how it really holds up to the best of comic book films.
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Old 2013-05-02, 04:22   Link #175
oompa loompa
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I came in expecting to see iron man kick ass, and I wasn't disappointed. Fast pace, good lines, great action. If that's what you're looking for you're in for a treat, otherwise, well it still isn't a bad movie.

Spoiler for Pepper:
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Old 2013-05-02, 05:17   Link #176
EmagEvil
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Saw the movie 2 days ago on 3D(it's useless, didn't feel worth it), and my little bro find it mediocre, i asked him more than Iron Man 2? He hesitate to answer...

... Me i enjoyed it, it's better than the 2nd, but still the first is the best...
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Old 2013-05-02, 07:08   Link #177
Shyni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Spoiler for Ten Rings:
Ahh, so

Spoiler for Iron Man 3 plot thing:
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Old 2013-05-02, 07:10   Link #178
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
Ahh, so

Spoiler for Iron Man 3 plot thing:
Yep, he was being literal.
Spoiler for mandarin:
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Old 2013-05-02, 07:21   Link #179
Masuzu
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I thought that accent was pretty Australian.
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Old 2013-05-02, 07:49   Link #180
Samari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I'm been reading both positive and negative feedback about this film. I wonder how it really holds up to the best of comic book films.
It does not hold a candle to the top dogs like the Dark Knight or The Avengers to me. There are way too many plot holes in the movie and the logic that they've already established in the previous Marvel films doesn't even make sense in this one. Plus the tone just way too much on the light side. It reminded me of Charles' Angels in a sense where the focus of the film shifts to making an audience laugh instead of telling an innovative story. It's like Disney completely took over and decided to just dog this one.

Spoiler:
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Last edited by Samari; 2013-05-02 at 08:19.
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