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Old 2013-04-29, 02:49   Link #21
LeoXiao
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I think that episodes 25 and 26 are required viewing, and then you should watch EoE. It's kind of like the moment of delay before the finale that comes up in Greek plays, to let you think about everything that has happened thus far and then you get hit with the conclusion.

While I can sort of understand people not liking the protagonist, I think that it's really a pity if you can't feel some sympathy for him. He hasn't gotten the sort of parental care that most kids do, and his goals have always been so artificially subservient that he has no idea what it is he himself wants and needs. Of course he's not going to have much initiative or do the heroic things the viewer would expect him to do - he's a sorry kid who can hardly think for himself let alone make decisions that might make it or break it for all of humanity.

If you want a hero, go watch TTGL or some other mecha show. There are plenty of those. But don't go hating on NGE just because it attempts to bring a little psychological complexity into the genre.
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Old 2013-04-29, 07:56   Link #22
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I don't quite get how Rebuild could be considered better than the original TV series, it's basically the same story but rushed with a lot of cuts, in which they forcibly added a new character that barely fits and in which another character was severely mangled in her personality and screentime to accommodate the new entry.

Moreover Rebuild isn't even finished yet, so you can't even judge if its ending will actually make more sense.
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Old 2013-04-29, 08:57   Link #23
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Guys, let's not get carried away and forget that this is a suggestion thread. It's not meant for us to debate over the relative merits of each version of the Evangelion franchise. miroku2192 simply wanted to know which order to watch the various shows, whether it is important to watch every available version and whether the different storylines are connected.
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Old 2013-04-29, 10:05   Link #24
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However that's kinda related because OP is basically asking if he should watch rebuild or the TV version first.

Shouldn't we tell why we think either one is the better option?
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Old 2013-04-29, 11:08   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
However that's kinda related because OP is basically asking if he should watch rebuild or the TV version first.

Shouldn't we tell why we think either one is the better option?
Of course we should and I think we've all given our reasons. But you were questioning the opinion that Rebuild is better than the TV series. At this point, it's for miroku2192 to watch the shows and come to an independent judgment.

I don't deny that there's a lot to debate, but that's already taking place elsewhere. No need to let it spill over here.
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Old 2013-04-29, 11:44   Link #26
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The Rebuild movies are just a money grab, much like the new Star Trek movies. That doesn't mean they're inherently bad. In fact for a first timer, they are not bad movies. However, they just don't relate very well to the source they came from, and in many cases are just in name only. There are many better movies you could be watching.

So watch the tv series first, and then make your decision. If you like it, watch EoE. If you don't like it, quite when you're ahead or try Rebuild.

1.0 is excepted since it's basically just a flat out remake.

I don't really recommend movie only or just watching Rebuild, as it'll be a completely different and inferior series.
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Old 2013-04-29, 16:42   Link #27
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If you're taking your first steps into the Evangelion mindfuck franchise, you might as well walk the path the rest of us walked a long time ago. Watch the TV series, ponder on the meaning of life and try to understand what the hell just happened in front of your eyes...and then, if you're still up to some more, tune into End of Evangelion.

If you don't enjoy the TV series for whatever reason, my advice is to skip the Rebuild movies as well. And if you liked the TV series, approach the movies with caution. Some people loved the movies, others hated them.

But Evangelion's a definite must watch if you like shows that deal with more serious issues than the usual "cute girls doing cute stuff" you see a lot of these days.
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Old 2013-04-29, 17:23   Link #28
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I think a full psychological breakdown of the protagonist counts as a spoiler ? If the OP has read all posts, I think, he is already going in ready to hate the MC.
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Old 2013-04-29, 18:32   Link #29
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I must say, given the amount of posts and the range of comments, this seems like it's certainly going to be interesting.

And you're right, you guys are doing one hell of a job of making this MC sound like a complete loser, but to me, if it's trying to prove a point, then clearly the author did well in conveying that. Sort of like the bad guy in a movie that you really hate, his acting was clearly good enough to make you really fuc*ing hate him.

Anyway, looking forward to watching this sometime in May, would love to update you guys with how I feel if you guys are still down for it. Either way really appreciate you guys helping out and providing so many different viewpoints.
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Old 2013-04-29, 18:51   Link #30
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Yes, I'd like to see how you take it.
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Old 2013-04-29, 20:10   Link #31
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The MC is a loser which should be obvious from the first moment you watch this. The significance of this will vary from person to person.
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Old 2013-04-29, 20:37   Link #32
Dark Faith
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
The MC is a loser which should be obvious from the first moment you watch this. The significance of this will vary from person to person.
Or better yet, wait until that one scene in End of Evangelion..
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Old 2013-04-30, 00:24   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
Hey guys,

Everyone keeps raving about the series Evangelion, so I'm going to give it a shot in the upcoming weeks after my finals. I'm a little confused though, there's a TV series, and several "movies", with the recent 3.33 whatever, what exactly should I be watching? And how are these all connected?
Watch the TV series first from episodes 1-26, and then watch the End of Evangelion. There will be people who suggest skipping the last two episodes of the TV series, but if you do so, you will miss out on the complete experience.

Death and Rebirth is mostly a recap of the TV series, but it's not completely without value. If you want to watch it, it sits between the series and the End of Evangelion. Be aware that there's some redundant material there.

I still haven't watched the Rebuild movies yet, and I'm not convinced that I'm missing out. They're an alternate take on the same subject matter with some modern twists thrown in. Most of the changes I've heard about don't seem very compelling compared to the material in the TV series, so I might never watch them.
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Old 2013-04-30, 01:48   Link #34
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Apparently pretentious psychobabbly bullshit can easily be confused for psychological complexity by fanboys with nostalgia goggles.

Look, I loved Evangelion TV when I was a teenager. Loved End of Evangelion. I thought it was the bees' knees. I even thought the "original" ending was such a GREAT TWIST.

I also loved Final Fantasy 7 and Planescape: Torment when I was a teenager.

Now that I'm almost thirty, I recently tried making my way through these three things again.

I could not do it. They were just too terrible. I made it through four episodes of NGE TV before the countless budget-saving animation hacks and the glacially-slow pace (which does not adhere to any sane engagement curve) started driving me nuts.

And the CONGRATULATIONS ending wasn't clever or innovative. Remember, this is the same stupid WHAT A TWEEEEEST crap that resulted in M. Night Shyamalan's excommunication from the pantheon of revered directors.
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Old 2013-04-30, 01:51   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
And you're right, you guys are doing one hell of a job of making this MC sound like a complete loser, but to me, if it's trying to prove a point, then clearly the author did well in conveying that.
Yes, the MC's downward spiral is deliberate, though many fans and critics would argue that it's a result of Anno going off his anti-depression medication midway through the anime (and Rebuild is his attempt to remake Eva now that he has restored his mental fortitude). You have to understand that one of the several traits that made Eva a breakout anime compared to the rest of the mecha anime landscape is how it deconstructs the traditional hero's journey, turning it from a tale of redemption/improvement into one of damnation and self-destruction. The very core of Evangelion is about self-discovery and self-acceptance through the destruction of the world - and the latter part is very important here. This kind of hit the audience, as Anno was addressing very down-to-earth problems such as alienation, self-worth, pride, rejection, etc. Problems most people can easily relate to (they resonate far more easily with the viewer than a "I do not want to kill other humans" dilemma) as they've experienced them themselves, though they probably wouldn't all be able to empathize with the ways the Eva characters dealt with their own demons (but then again, that's a flaw that most judges, juries and executioners suffer from nowadays).
Spoiler:

Quote:
Sort of like the bad guy in a movie that you really hate, his acting was clearly good enough to make you really fuc*ing hate him.
Anno certainly did sting the entire audience to the point that its opinion towards the plot and the characters are extremely polarized (even today), so I guess for him it's mission accomplished.


So, by all means, do watch Eva - the problems broached therein are timeless (abandonment, self-acceptance, etc) so it might not feel too old, too passť. Can't guarantee you'll like it, but it's a classic that needs to be watched at least once in your lifetime.

As for the watching order:
TV w/ ep.25/26 (those two episodes actually have some spoilers for EoE) -- > Death & Rebirth (essentially a recap with a couple new details / reworked animation) + EoE --> Rebuild 1.11+2.22+3.33.
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Last edited by Renegade334; 2013-04-30 at 02:47.
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Old 2013-04-30, 02:22   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Apparently pretentious psychobabbly bullshit can easily be confused for psychological complexity by fanboys with nostalgia goggles.

Look, I loved Evangelion TV when I was a teenager. Loved End of Evangelion. I thought it was the bees' knees. I even thought the "original" ending was such a GREAT TWIST.

I also loved Final Fantasy 7 and Planescape: Torment when I was a teenager.

Now that I'm almost thirty, I recently tried making my way through these three things again.

I could not do it. They were just too terrible. I made it through four episodes of NGE TV before the countless budget-saving animation hacks and the glacially-slow pace (which does not adhere to any sane engagement curve) started driving me nuts.

And the CONGRATULATIONS ending wasn't clever or innovative. Remember, this is the same stupid WHAT A TWEEEEEST crap that resulted in M. Night Shyamalan's excommunication from the pantheon of revered directors.
Thank god, I don't have nostalgia goggles, since I watched it 12 years after release. Fortunately, it's not the only way to ascertain complexity.

Look, Evangelion was bad in a number of ways, and the way it used Freud (a hack himself) and Christian symbols was bad indeed, and nobody will defend it against the budget problems but the themes are pretty clear cut with Anno's disillusion of the otaku lifestyle and anime itself. Guy was on meds and honestly the series was a damned good showing of the concept of depression. Plus the majority of characters do make sense in context, and none of this requires shock value or M Night Shyamalan bullshit.

It's fine if you don't like it, but that hardly seems fair.
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Old 2013-04-30, 03:45   Link #37
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Quote:
Apparently pretentious psychobabbly bullshit can easily be confused for psychological complexity by fanboys with nostalgia goggles.
lol anything can be pretentious huh
Quote:
Look, Evangelion was bad in a number of ways, and the way it used Freud (a hack himself) and Christian symbols was bad indeed, and nobody will defend it against the budget problems but the themes are pretty clear cut with Anno's disillusion of the otaku lifestyle and anime itself. Guy was on meds and honestly the series was a damned good showing of the concept of depression. Plus the majority of characters do make sense in context, and none of this requires shock value or M Night Shyamalan bullshit.
I don't see a reason to mind the use of Freud or Christian symbols. These things get used in all sorts of artistic works. In this case I found it a clever way to demonstrate the anxieties various characters had (Freud) and relay a theme of salvation (Christian symbols), which to me seemed like clever juxtaposition.

I didn't even see a hatred of the otaku lifestyle in the series until having read further analysis of it, and am still unconvinced that a criticism of otakus in particular is clearly demonstrated in the work. What I see instead is a look at humanity's fundamental worries, going beyond things like simple greed or malice to get at the core problem - the self, the other, and the barriers or lack thereof between them.
Spoiler for general plot stuff:
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Old 2013-04-30, 04:03   Link #38
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People are way too liberal with the spoilers in this thread.

Spoiler for Evangelion:
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Old 2013-04-30, 09:38   Link #39
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Thank god, I don't have nostalgia goggles, since I watched it 12 years after release. Fortunately, it's not the only way to ascertain complexity.

Look, Evangelion was bad in a number of ways, and the way it used Freud (a hack himself) and Christian symbols was bad indeed, and nobody will defend it against the budget problems but the themes are pretty clear cut with Anno's disillusion of the otaku lifestyle and anime itself. Guy was on meds and honestly the series was a damned good showing of the concept of depression. Plus the majority of characters do make sense in context, and none of this requires shock value or M Night Shyamalan bullshit.

It's fine if you don't like it, but that hardly seems fair.
The only thing that was bad about the biblical mysticism's references was the fandom that wanted to think there was a deeper meaning about them.
You get that kind of stuff everywhere, that's like saying that it is bad for Star Driver to make references to phoenician letters and "the little prince". That's simply stuff that is meant to add flavor, it was never meant to be anything more than that, and it's never been something bad as it isn't now.


@Synaesthetic It seems that you are somehow upset that people still like what you don't like anymore, but that's not a good reason to reach convenient conclusions such as "they are just nostalgia-goggled fanboys". I am older than you and I wasn't a teenager anymore when all those things you mentioned were released. My opinion on Evangelion and FF7 hasn't changed at all, (for the records I was pointing flaws in Evangelion back when people would consider you a heretic for suggesting that), I played Torment for the first time one year ago and I found its story to be awesome.
There are people that have different tastes from yours, deal with it. And just because yours have changed it doesn't mean that it is a sign of evolution and maturity.
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Old 2013-04-30, 09:56   Link #40
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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My god.

When I read the thread’s title, I knew all this debates and arguments will happen.
Anyway, let’s not be generous with the spoilers, guys.

As for me, I would suggest miroku2192 (OP) to start from the series as that is where all the hoopla comes from. Watch episode 1-24-> stop -> watch End of Evangelion -> continue to watch episode 25-26. After that, you are free to enjoy the Rebuild movies. Yeah, maybe that method is rather unconventional, but I think you’ll get the most "Evangelion experience" by doing that .

Peace.
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