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Old 2013-05-06, 08:36   Link #42801
demino_hellsin
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I don't mean that sorry excuse of a defeat. I mean she batters him around like a ragdoll, because Houki didn't do anything but to play dollhouse fantasy with Ichika's training time.

Cecilia doesn't do the insta-fall in love but gains a measure of respect for him. she'd still be goofy ojou-sama but she knows when business has to be in the equation. So it contrasts with Houki who is forcing Ichika to follow the path of the bushido, while Cecilia is doing things textbook. Though her teaching is better than Houki, the level of her explanation isn't something Ichika can grasp. Like college student trying to explain basic algebra to a 1st grader.

generally the same events. But take everything up to eleven.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:37   Link #42802
Eratas123
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You basically switched Houki's and Vol. 1!Cecilia's personalities. Or you made Houki more like Tabane.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:39   Link #42803
demino_hellsin
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To explain, it's because my interpretation of the Houki of that time, she wasn't training Ichika because he had a match in a week. She had 2 motives. 1 was to spend more time with him. 2 was to make him revert to the Ichika in her memories. She's trying to bring back those memories.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:41   Link #42804
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And Houki being clinically batshit insane is better how? You basically took part of her that the fandom hate and amplify it with Tabane level jackassery
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:42   Link #42805
Eratas123
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She still is, actually. She outright FORCES him to do kendo despite the fact that he makes it plain obvious that he doesn't enjoy it. That's not being bitchy and evil so much as wish fulfilling.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:50   Link #42806
demino_hellsin
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That's why I said Spoiled brat in Evil Bitch form. She's just a kid who wants something but to the world she's quiet violent anti-social borderline sociopathic.

I think that part of Houki is supposed to be hated. The problem is that it feels so half-assed. All the scenarios feel so half-assed. Again it feels like he wants us to sympathize instead of empathize. The Silver Gospel when Houki gets that wake up call? Who felt more developed then? Her or the one that gave her the slap? Rin right? Houki just felt plain same. Why is that? Because she didn't seem to act much differently. We're supposed to believe that post slap Houki is way better than pre-slap Houki only because the slap occurred. Just something in me cannot condone it.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:54   Link #42807
ZeroXSEED
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Careful there, that's borderline bashing.

Of course, if you choose the path of darkness, so be it. Your choice
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:55   Link #42808
Eratas123
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I don't think either of them act that different, really. In stories like this, "Status Quo is God". Its like Sharpay learning her lesson at the end of every high school musical only to turn even dumber and shallower by the next movie.
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Old 2013-05-06, 08:57   Link #42809
demino_hellsin
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*sigh* I guess I just feel annoyed that Houki can claim to love him when she can't appreciate the person that he became. The change isn't even that big! Plus I want to give her actual growth.

Sharpay got one-upped. She never got schooled. O.o?
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:04   Link #42810
Eratas123
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She's lightened up; as of the fifth volume, Ichika's no longer training in kendo and Houki doesn't rag on him for it. Hell, according to V8, the reason Houki could see through the fake Ichika was that he was too good in kendo. Safe to say she's gotten over it.

She did get schooled...at the end of every movie. Then she's back to being "Queen Bitch" by the next movie.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:16   Link #42811
demino_hellsin
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I always thought that was a side effect of the near kiss, and the whole "awkward avoidance" thing. Ofcourse she did get better but for the most part it's because she knows she has a chance or has a damn better chance than the other girls.

We have not been watching the same movies.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:20   Link #42812
ZeroXSEED
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What is this you called High School Musical? it doesn't exist

Joke aside, you want to highlight Houki's development by making her start worse, I can understand. Once again, it's up to you to choose.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:25   Link #42813
Eratas123
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The world of IS has the subliminal message that "Girls = More awesome than guys". The only two guys we see are Ichika and Dan; the former's a complete ninny who acts like a descendant of Leeroy and the latter is a wannabe chick magnet. Compare these two to people like Tatenashi or Chifuyu and the male gender looks somewhat pathetic.

No wonder most OC's are blatant author power trips >.>
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:30   Link #42814
ZeroXSEED
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Dan also scared shitless of Ran

for whatever reason I can NOT comprehend, except Izuru trying to portray it as funny. But what eras said, him being one of two onscreen male character does not help....
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:32   Link #42815
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It's funny until we started realizing the social status of the two genders in the IS-verse.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:36   Link #42816
Eratas123
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Many other harem manga's do this, but at the very least the males shown there are COMPETENT: The male lead from Seirei Tsukai no Blade dance is just as strong as the other female leads despite having a weakened spirit and was able to beat another male who implanted himself with dozens of spirits. Likewise, the male lead from Unbreakable Machine Doll shows his competence by being the ONLY puppetmaster willing to fight alongside his partner and even uses wrestling moves and flashbang grenades to fight against the obviously stronger automatons.

Contrast that to Ichika whose sole strategy is "Charge forward with my energy draining blade and hope I win" rather than use any actual strategy.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:39   Link #42817
Tempest35
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Random question: has anyone seen Deadman Wonderland...? The psycho show about blood powers and whatnot?
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:40   Link #42818
Eratas123
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Just a bit, but it wasn't my cup of tea.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:40   Link #42819
ZeroXSEED
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*Teen foot pole*

My answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eratas123 View Post
Contrast that to Ichika whose sole strategy is "Charge forward with my energy draining blade and hope I win" rather than use any actual strategy.
What made me sad is it's consistent and does make sense

From Chifuyu railroading his progression and harem being a pain in the ass don't help him shine, did he even have other choice?

So yeah, even worse than usual. Because the person he could actually rely on is an AI of his machine, and the result is constant asspul.
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Old 2013-05-06, 09:44   Link #42820
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Actually, as of V5, he's being trained by everyone into improving. He still loses because he activates the sword too much>.> Rin even calls him on this.
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