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Old 2013-05-05, 22:15   Link #941
Kyuu
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And in other news:
Quote:
Giffords receives Profile in Courage award

BOSTON (AP) — Former U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords received the 2013 Profile in Courage award at the John F. Kennedy Library on Sunday in recognition of the political, personal, and physical courage she has demonstrated in her fearless public advocacy for policy reforms aimed at reducing gun violence.
http://news.yahoo.com/giffords-recei...222250754.html

Yup. These two - a fine example of courage and leadership. They have a couple things going for them:

1. Credibility. They themselves are gun owners.

2. Victimization. Gabby Giffords was a victim in a mass shooting.

3. Resources. These two have the resources to advocate against the current status quo, pertaining to "Gun Rights".

Then combine these three -- you have a High Profile, that allows them to lead by example.

Ultimately, there is a movement going on in favor of Gun Safety. The NRA arguments of "Gun Rights", "Protection", and all other arguments dropped into this thread and the "Gun Control" thread in favor of maintaining the status quo is in the process of weakening. Basically, the number of Americans (owners and non-owners) are getting sick and damned tired of "Gun Violence".

It'll be only a matter of time till more and more people can see right through the empty NRA rhetoric. The NRA leads -- by means of instilling FEAR. Once more Americans wake up - they will be able to see right through all of that.
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Old 2013-05-06, 05:08   Link #942
ganbaru
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Obama urges graduates to blunt special interests by getting involved
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9440AC20130505
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Old 2013-05-06, 05:22   Link #943
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Obama urges graduates to blunt special interests by getting involved
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9440AC20130505
He's right. Big media. Corporations. Special Interest groups. Etc.

They're all betting on the general public to become outright frustrated, distraught, and ultimately apathetically hopeless about the political system, so that they can use their power and wealth to control America. To those kinds of people, I give them the middle finger.

If necessary, it may take the next generation to clean up the mess and garbage left behind the self-absorbed Baby Boom Generation.
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Old 2013-05-06, 07:46   Link #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
One more gun related article. Yea, yea, I know the deal with this forum and this issue.

However, this letter, addressed to Wayne Lapierre, are words written by a lifetime NRA member:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-w...p_ref=politics
Arm the criminals and everyone else will follow? Sounds like something out of Lord of War.
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Old 2013-05-06, 12:32   Link #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Obama urges graduates to blunt special interests by getting involved
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9440AC20130505
the public needs to hire their own lobbyist.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ame...to-push,18204/
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:24   Link #946
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Originally posted by Kyuu:Ultimately, there is a movement going on in favor of Gun Safety. The NRA arguments of "Gun Rights", "Protection", and all other arguments dropped into this thread and the "Gun Control" thread in favor of maintaining the status quo is in the process of weakening. Basically, the number of Americans (owners and non-owners) are getting sick and damned tired of "Gun Violence".
Yeah we're gettin damned sick and tired of the "Gun Safety"/"Gun Violence" continuence!
What happened to tryin to shore up the economy? Fixin the immagration thing?
I don't agree with the NRA or its fear mongerin! But I would like to see where another ban will fix anything?!
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:57   Link #947
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badkarma 1 View Post
What happened to tryin to shore up the economy? Fixin the immagration thing?

I don't agree with the NRA or its fear mongerin! But I would like to see where another ban will fix anything?!
I like how calls for regulation is equating to that of a "ban". Although, some are calling for a ban on certain guns. If you ask me, all these other things have to be taken care of first.

To answer the first question -- sadly, this gun debate is so fundamental -- everything else, including the economy, is taking a back seat. Yet, economically, we're actually faring better now -- than say -- when Obama first took office. It ain't perfect. Millions are still unemployed; but at least, it is in the general direction of improvement. Very slow improvement.

Imagine how things would have been with a more cooperative Congress. We'd probably be in some kind of boom by now.
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Old 2013-05-07, 03:37   Link #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
One more gun related article. Yea, yea, I know the deal with this forum and this issue.
Not that you've ever let it stop you.

Quote:
So, if you are a "responsible gun owner", it is best to read this letter and take it to heart.
Implying that every responsible gun owner must think the same way or that there is only one correct viewpoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
1. Credibility. They themselves are gun owners.
I have no issue with the Giffords, but the idea that simply owning a gun makes one "credible" or whatever other authoritative terms you want to use on the issue of gun control is laughable. Does simply owning a car make one any more or less "credible" when it comes to issues regarding motor vehicle control?

Quote:
Ultimately, there is a movement going on in favor of Gun Safety. The NRA arguments of "Gun Rights", "Protection", and all other arguments dropped into this thread and the "Gun Control" thread in favor of maintaining the status quo is in the process of weakening. Basically, the number of Americans (owners and non-owners) are getting sick and damned tired of "Gun Violence".
I find the political "re-framing" of words to be downright disingenuous, as they all try to pretend the other side doesn't exist. It's about safety AND rights AND control. Trying to say it's all about "gun safety" and not about "gun control" is about as full of **** as when the conservative camp try to say it's about "protecting marriage" instead of discrimination.

The same goes for your continued attempts to lump everyone in the gun rights camp in with the NRA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
If necessary, it may take the next generation to clean up the mess and garbage left behind the self-absorbed Baby Boom Generation.
Yea ok... as if there's something especially bad about the baby boomers, shits stunk before them, and will still stink after them. I certainly hasn't seen anything that suggests that the current generation has suddenly reached enlightenment. Blaming the problems on the last generation is about as bad and pointless as those "kids these days..." rant.

Also, LOL at the implication that this administration is any less beholden to special interests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
I like how calls for regulation is equating to that of a "ban". .
I like how you're pretending that the regulations (both passed or proposed) doesn't include bans.
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Old 2013-05-07, 05:23   Link #949
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badkarma 1 View Post
What happened to tryin to shore up the economy? Fixin the immagration thing?
Shouldn't Congress be able to go forward on more than 1 project at the time, even a Congress as disfonctional as the current one ?
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Old 2013-05-07, 05:49   Link #950
Badkarma 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Shouldn't Congress be able to go forward on more than 1 project at the time, even a Congress as disfonctional as the current one ?
I would like to think so myself! BUT when your inundated by special interest groups posturing and placating for there "constituents" and parents of slain children, its hard to keep your mind on the business at hand!
But what disgusted me the most was Obama and company asked for a vote and got it, then he and his cohorts literally acted like spoiled children when they didn't get their way!
Also one never heard about what bills congress did pass this week, simply because it isn't news worthy.
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Old 2013-05-07, 06:11   Link #951
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Does simply owning a car make one any more or less "credible" when it comes to issues regarding motor vehicle control?
Oh stay off that direction and quite deflecting. The vehicle control analogy is retarded, because auto use is regulated to hell; and we're living with them just fine.

Gabby Gifford's credibility is supported by two things: Gun Ownership and Victimization from the Tuscon Shooting. Being a survivor, she's more credible than most. Gee, by any chance, would you wish she had died from that shooting? C'mon man. Let out your evil and have some wishful thinking on that line. Doooo eeeeet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
I like how you're pretending that the regulations (both passed or proposed) doesn't include bans.
I'm not. Just down playing them. Instead, the "bans", that you are so heavily AFRAID of -- they're not as important as some of the main regulatory measures, that majorities of people are in favor of. You know when the politics is outright retarded, when the overwhelming majority view is still being rejected by Congress.

Those "bans" will come later. Just be patient about that.

By the way, how did you like that NRA Convention? Any cosplayers?

===

And on another direction. Regardless of the gun debate, corporate power is the biggest threat to America right now.

Thankfully...

Quote:
Pennsylvania Court Deals Blow to Secrecy-Obsessed Fracking Industry: Corporations Not The Same As Persons With Privacy Rights
http://www.alternet.org/fracking/pen...tions-not-same

In light of Citizen's United -- thankfully, the rights do not extend into privacy. Else, they'd be free and more likely to even do greater damage.

Last edited by Kyuu; 2013-05-07 at 06:24.
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Old 2013-05-07, 07:29   Link #952
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Oh stay off that direction and quite deflecting. The vehicle control analogy is retarded, because auto use is regulated to hell; and we're living with them just fine.

Gabby Gifford's credibility is supported by two things: Gun Ownership and Victimization from the Tuscon Shooting. Being a survivor, she's more credible than most.
Nope, that's not the analogy you were thinking of. Read again - my point was that one's stance and view on gun ownership and the relevant policies is not any more or less validated by whether one actually owns a gun or not, it's simply irrelevant.

Her injury gives her sympathy points and political capital to spend on the issue, but again has no bearing on the validity of her views.

Quote:
I'm not. Just down playing them. Instead, the "bans", that you are so heavily AFRAID of
Nope, not afraid, but keep dreaming.

Quote:
Those "bans" will come later. Just be patient about that.
don't hold your breath.

Quote:
By the way, how did you like that NRA Convention? Any cosplayers?
Bet you think you're so smart with your insinuation that I support the NRA. Which btw, I don't. They're pretty terrible, which just make them the political opposite of people like you.

Quote:
Gee, by any chance, would you wish she had died from that shooting? C'mon man. Let out your evil and have some wishful thinking on that line. Doooo eeeeet.
...

you WOULD go that low eh? stay classy, you're a shining example of your kind.
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Old 2013-05-07, 08:38   Link #953
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Bet you think you're so smart with your insinuation that I support the NRA. Which btw, I don't. They're pretty terrible, which just make them the political opposite of people like you.

...

you WOULD go that low eh? stay classy, you're a shining example of your kind.
Of course. Pushes. Jabs. And baiting tactics. Sometimes, this sort of deal can be quite a game. Don't you think? All for one purpose: to see where you really stand. Emotional reactions tend to display one's true position.

However, if I were one of the most extreme gun nuts out there, I'd wish for something like that. Hell, I'm sure they're hoping for Obama to be assassinated too. It's just how -- they -- are.

Giving you the tip of that hat, you're not in that category. Congratulations.

But make no mistake. After this recent convention, the NRA really showed where they truly stand. All this -- liberty, freedom, and rights talk from the NRA. It is ALL baloney. Instead, the NRA is the politics of War, Violence, and Death. By sheer comparison, this is close to tyranny; not there yet, 'cause they're not using brute force yet. They can't.

Just a reminder: I support the Second Amendment too -- just more towards the "well regulated militia" end.

Regulation.
Regulation.
Regulation.

De-regulation has brought us nothing but trouble so far. Everything from gun violence to the financial crisis 5 years ago. All this garbage needs to stop. If regulation gets too much, then that's where the "shall not be infringed" part kicks in.

Finally, instead of opposing the NRA, you're here fighting me. From what I take so far, YOU are not fighting this evil. So guess what buddy? I will like to see more of this out of you. Start fighting the NRA position -- IF -- you really are not in support of them.
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Old 2013-05-07, 08:47   Link #954
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Finally, instead of opposing the NRA, you're here fighting me. From what I take so far, YOU are not fighting this evil. So guess what buddy? I will like to see more of this out of you. Start fighting the NRA position -- IF -- you really are not in support of them.
To be fair, posting on an anime site is not really "fighting" them either. And as far as any of us can tell, that's all you're doing. But we don't know if that's all you're doing, so you really shouldn't just assume that anyone else isn't doing anything either.
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:05   Link #955
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
To be fair, posting on an anime site is not really "fighting" them either. And as far as any of us can tell, that's all you're doing. But we don't know if that's all you're doing, so you really shouldn't just assume that anyone else isn't doing anything either.
I seek brains; and it's the thought that counts. As the saying goes, it's a matter of getting into the hearts and minds of people. This just happens to be one channel of it -- granted, that it is a small channel. For now, this is one thing I CAN do. The other thing is vote, among a couple other things.

Finally, the NRA is developing a weaker position, such that it has to resort to holding some kind of convention to promote its position. The organization can no longer bombast its talking points everywhere, because it is finding opposition within its own ranks. This is quite a good sign, for things to actually change finally. It's slow; but the general direction is there.

Those "bans" ... that's in the distant, if things ever get that far. If things are done right, only certain kinds of bans would be needed, such that overwhelming majorities are satisfied. Quite frankly, it is not something to be afraid of in the first place anyways.
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:32   Link #956
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Of course. Pushes. Jabs. And baiting tactics. Sometimes, this sort of deal can be quite a game.
Quote:
1.2 Do not insult or harass other members
Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated.


Quote:
Finally, instead of opposing the NRA, you're here fighting me. From what I take so far, YOU are not fighting this evil. So guess what buddy? I will like to see more of this out of you. Start fighting the NRA position -- IF -- you really are not in support of them.
Just because I disagree with the NRA doesn't mean I'm in your camp. From where I stand, the NRA is nuts, but at least they serve to balance out the nuts from the other side.
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Old 2013-05-07, 11:57   Link #957
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Christie's comments on weight, health over time
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/chris...alth-over-time

Senator says military plagued by sexual assaults
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-07-10-49-14
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Old 2013-05-07, 15:33   Link #958
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Just because I disagree with the NRA doesn't mean I'm in your camp. From where I stand, the NRA is nuts, but at least they serve to balance out the nuts from the other side.
Quote:
1.2 Do not insult or harass other members
Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated.
In my own defense, technically, I didn't aim directly for you. That's despite making an open confession. Hypothetically, if I were to ever see you aim a gun at me, I'd be standing my legs spread and arms wide open. In a situation like that, can I run? No.

Whether you side with the NRA or not, you used their arguments. Therefore, I get to lump you with the whole lot of them, by supporting their policy positions. If you happen to reject those, then alright. Y'get some slack.

Thus, a follow-up question:
What do you think about the rejection of that recent background checks bill? As for the "other" proponents of the bill, I don't know much about those parts; but I heard those were the parts that motivated the Senate to reject it.

To make things clear - the goal here is: "Increased gun safety while retaining gun rights". Your proposition to this goal is to retain the status quo. However, I'm sorry. That is not acceptable.

Anyways, I'll enjoy me some gun legal and "well-regulated gun" use:
Spoiler:
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Old 2013-05-07, 16:27   Link #959
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Gun control discussion ends here. Thanks...
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Old 2013-05-07, 16:33   Link #960
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No. Thank you.
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