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Old 2013-05-06, 10:56   Link #1701
GVN.Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
Eh, it's Kyousuke the one who call Ayase 'angel' (or to be precise, "lovely my angel") in the first place
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreImo Vol 10 Chap 4

“So how did it end between you and Sayaka?”

“I buried her body at the mountain.”
<=== What an angel
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:31   Link #1702
bakAnki
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Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
<=== What an angel
Eh, you missed my point. You can go on and on but doesn't matter how hard you try to belittle/make her look bad with her bad traits, the official still markets her as 'angel' (as well as yandere character, of course). You know what one of her nick on Ore no Imouto Maker EX mini game? "Angel". Even GSC staff also used the nickname when she promoted Nendoroid Ayase.

I can't speak for the other, but for me when I refer her as angel, I just simply mimicking what Kyousuke call her. It's not that wicked when character A gives nickname for character B (and on this case several times) making fans start to call the character B with the said nickname. Another example that quickly come to mind is Haganai's Sena "meat"/"niku" nickname. On Sena case it starts as an insult though
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Old 2013-05-06, 22:11   Link #1703
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You're just nitpicking at this point, GVN.Chaos. My Little Angel is an in-universe nickname, and as such regardless of what you think of her, such a nickname is valid.
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Old 2013-05-06, 22:31   Link #1704
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It was a joke ~.~ though. I got your point, I just pretent to not see it ~.~
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Old 2013-05-07, 00:40   Link #1705
risingstar3110
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Not an expert in Oreimo or anything. But honestly i still feel the safest road for the author (to please general audiences while keep the theme consistent) is to make Kyousuke choosing Kirino, THEN right after that reveal that they are not blood related.

Something like Kyousuke rush in and embrace a crying Kirino. Then his parents walk in, the mother throw tantrums over how they are real siblings and it's not possible for them to have that relationship. And then freaked out, collapsed and broke in tears. And then their dad started to reveal about how one of them was adopted to replace a dead child (a final month miscarriage for e.g.), and that initial shock was so much that they were in deny all this time that one of them is adopted. Cliche as heck. But the advantages of this ending is:
  • the author can pull any deus ex machina out of his ass, as it was all past events, which not entirely relate to the whole novel. So he can make up anything and still can make the story flow/consistent.
  • fans of Kirino overjoyed. In fact they can even plays the card about how the actual child chose the adopted one. So it will have the " destiny was written in the star" thingy. Then there is that "i love you whether we are blood related or not"
  • incest theme still remains without incest backslash


If the author want to make it cheeky, throw in the card "Kuroneko/Ayase/whoever realised that Kirino is not his blood sister, so now it's all fair game". Fairly close ending , but still opened enough so readers can continuously debate how their favorite heroines will easily gain the advantage now, as siscon Kyousuke do not have to take care of his "sister" anymore.
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Old 2013-05-07, 00:42   Link #1706
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I'll pretend I didn't read the post above.
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Old 2013-05-07, 00:48   Link #1707
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'll pretend I didn't read the post above.
Please don't ignore my existence...
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Old 2013-05-07, 03:21   Link #1708
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Not an expert in Oreimo or anything. But honestly i still feel the safest road for the author (to please general audiences while keep the theme consistent) is to make Kyousuke choosing Kirino, THEN right after that reveal that they are not blood related.
Honestly, I don't think this is so likely to please that many people. If they were going to pull this card, I think they would have more clearly foreshadowed it in the narrative way sooner. But besides that, just finding out that they're not blood-related isn't truly going to solve all their problems. They were still born and raised together, and in all practical and legal senses they're true family. It's not like the stigma goes away, or that their parents and friends/acquaintances are going to suddenly be okay with it. So if the author really did want to take the story down this path, I don't think he would need at all to rely on this little "trick" because it doesn't really change anything of consequence. (The world won't implode just because an "otaku-centric" romantic comedy that features a brocon middle-school girl playing incest-themed eroge and forcing it on her siscon older brother implies an incest ending.) If we're talking about what's safer if you're going down this path, it's safer to just to keep the ending vague and throw some doubt in there so that people can make up their own mind what happens next.

I guess there are some people who think "give me the ending I want at any cost", and so would be "overjoyed" as long as their ship wins... but personally I hope to just have an ending that is coherent and makes sense without needing any tricks or cliché twists. So in my view, anyway, I don't favour this particular twist. (Now saying all this, I fully admit to enjoying the "if" route in the PSP game that was similar to what you described, but not so much because of this particular twist.)

I do suspect that Kyousuke will confess feelings to Kirino in the last volume... but not necessarily with the typical outcome in mind.
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Old 2013-05-07, 03:58   Link #1709
GVN.Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Not an expert in Oreimo or anything. But honestly i still feel the safest road for the author (to please general audiences while keep the theme consistent) is to make Kyousuke choosing Kirino, THEN right after that reveal that they are not blood related.

Something like Kyousuke rush in and embrace a crying Kirino. Then his parents walk in, the mother throw tantrums over how they are real siblings and it's not possible for them to have that relationship. And then freaked out, collapsed and broke in tears. And then their dad started to reveal about how one of them was adopted to replace a dead child (a final month miscarriage for e.g.), and that initial shock was so much that they were in deny all this time that one of them is adopted. Cliche as heck. But the advantages of this ending is:
  • the author can pull any deus ex machina out of his ass, as it was all past events, which not entirely relate to the whole novel. So he can make up anything and still can make the story flow/consistent.
  • fans of Kirino overjoyed. In fact they can even plays the card about how the actual child chose the adopted one. So it will have the " destiny was written in the star" thingy. Then there is that "i love you whether we are blood related or not"
  • incest theme still remains without incest backslash


If the author want to make it cheeky, throw in the card "Kuroneko/Ayase/whoever realised that Kirino is not his blood sister, so now it's all fair game". Fairly close ending , but still opened enough so readers can continuously debate how their favorite heroines will easily gain the advantage now, as siscon Kyousuke do not have to take care of his "sister" anymore.
Oh yeah, a crying Kirino in the rain. I remember that scene during ss1, it has been bugging me since that time. However, their mother should be the one know better if they are real sibling or not. I mean, she is supposedly to give birth to both, right? Unless the hosiptal screw up and mess up her child with someone else's.
But as relentlessflame said, Both Kyou-Kirino are too awared ot their status as siblings. Removing the blood relationship dont change that they still think of other as family.
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Old 2013-05-07, 05:08   Link #1710
larethian
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Not an expert in Oreimo or anything. But honestly i still feel the safest road for the author (to please general audiences while keep the theme consistent) is to make Kyousuke choosing Kirino, THEN right after that reveal that they are not blood related.
Hey, this is not Onii-Ai
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Old 2013-05-07, 06:00   Link #1711
GVN.Chaos
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Meh, Akito way more crazy than Kyousuke =))
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Old 2013-05-07, 06:24   Link #1712
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Kyousuke isnt the typical haremlead
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Old 2013-05-07, 08:07   Link #1713
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Actually, he is. A nice guy + secret keeper + obilivious to love + M = harem lead
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Old 2013-05-07, 08:21   Link #1714
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A real haremlead wouldn't be interested in girls, like in kirino, go out with kuroneko or thinks about being together with Ayase...
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:09   Link #1715
risingstar3110
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Honestly, I don't think this is so likely to please that many people. If they were going to pull this card, I think they would have more clearly foreshadowed it in the narrative way sooner. But besides that, just finding out that they're not blood-related isn't truly going to solve all their problems. They were still born and raised together, and in all practical and legal senses they're true family. It's not like the stigma goes away, or that their parents and friends/acquaintances are going to suddenly be okay with it. So if the author really did want to take the story down this path, I don't think he would need at all to rely on this little "trick" because it doesn't really change anything of consequence. (The world won't implode just because an "otaku-centric" romantic comedy that features a brocon middle-school girl playing incest-themed eroge and forcing it on her siscon older brother implies an incest ending.) If we're talking about what's safer if you're going down this path, it's safer to just to keep the ending vague and throw some doubt in there so that people can make up their own mind what happens next.

I guess there are some people who think "give me the ending I want at any cost", and so would be "overjoyed" as long as their ship wins... but personally I hope to just have an ending that is coherent and makes sense without needing any tricks or cliché twists. So in my view, anyway, I don't favour this particular twist. (Now saying all this, I fully admit to enjoying the "if" route in the PSP game that was similar to what you described, but not so much because of this particular twist.)

I do suspect that Kyousuke will confess feelings to Kirino in the last volume... but not necessarily with the typical outcome in mind.
Understanding from your point of view, but that's why this kind twist called deus ex machina. It basically cheat out the system by bring in an element out of nowhere that can solve the standing issues. Another is "suddenly in-universe society allow polygamy", or as some poster posted early, the ending involves Kyousuke married Ayase, Kuroneko, Kirino have their kids and lives in some European/American countryside. Once again it also fairly ridiculous, but i see stranger thing happened.

I won't say the world will implode. But surely the backslash from Japanese readers back when Kuroneko stepping down, and Kirino became the only main candidate was fairly fierce. Blood-related or not does not affect the plot itself, but people (especially those who don't follow the story itself) simply can raise a moral high ground against the author if the ending involves actual incest. Taking the blood sibling element out, and to outsiders the novel will simply about a pair of non-blood siblings comes to their feeling to each other. Fairly cliche in fact


..or just keep it vague till final moment like you suggested. I don't think we need to discuss a lot on that option
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
Oh yeah, a crying Kirino in the rain. I remember that scene during ss1, it has been bugging me since that time. However, their mother should be the one know better if they are real sibling or not. I mean, she is supposedly to give birth to both, right? Unless the hosiptal screw up and mess up her child with someone else's.
But as relentlessflame said, Both Kyou-Kirino are too awared ot their status as siblings. Removing the blood relationship dont change that they still think of other as family.
Like i stated before, going with route relating to the past and author can make a million events to fill up plot holes. The most simple plot to bypass that is: a) the parents keep the secret locking in their heart so won't mistreat the child, b)the adoption connecting to a tragedy that they lock it in their heart:
  • family friend or sister/cousin tragically dies leaving them with their child, still incest but legal in Japan
  • the adopted child's parents died directly due to their negligence (traffic accidents, or something related to the father's work)
  • miscarriage
  • all three of the above
  • etc...
On your second point, that's why Kirino and Kyousuke had to sort out the feeling themselves first. Before the non-blood-related thing is revealed. Pretty much just to dodge the moral landmine and comes to a closure ending

PS: Once again, it's just my opinion on a ending that may occur. Not gonna say it will happen or not gonna happen
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Old 2013-05-07, 12:55   Link #1716
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Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Not an expert in Oreimo or anything. But honestly i still feel the safest road for the author (to please general audiences while keep the theme consistent) is to make Kyousuke choosing Kirino, THEN right after that reveal that they are not blood related.
That's a "focus group" pretend solution as far as I'm concerned. From a storytelling aspect that would be the fastest way for me to drop the franchise because it would require simply jerking the characters around at this point. I call that extremely bad puppeteering.

Pulling blindsides out of thin air is one of the best ways to have other authors throwing rotten cabbage at you. I'm not against the notion of *any solution* (even Kirino) if the story provides reasoning and clues that justify the ending.

At the current point in the story, there's as much rationale to have Kyousuke and Kirino suddenly die in a car accident. Ruri, Ayase, and the others are left with a sudden hole in their lifes. The end. That may be the way life happens but it makes for a lousy story ending.
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Old 2013-05-07, 18:30   Link #1717
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At the current point in the story, there's as much rationale to have Kyousuke and Kirino suddenly die in a car accident. Ruri, Ayase, and the others are left with a sudden hole in their lifes. The end. That may be the way life happens but it makes for a lousy story ending.
Isn't that also a cliche in Japanese drama? Have a pair of siblings come to term of feeling then kill one or both of them off?

Heard about it only, don't quote me on this
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Old 2013-05-07, 18:39   Link #1718
Seitsuki
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I'm pretty sure it goes the other way round. Star crossed lovers die and are reborn as siblings. Which either means the Japanese had a very ironic sense of humor, or they've been shipping incest since before the Feudal era
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:40   Link #1719
risingstar3110
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I'm pretty sure it goes the other way round. Star crossed lovers die and are reborn as siblings. Which either means the Japanese had a very ironic sense of humor, or they've been shipping incest since before the Feudal era
I know this one, but i thought they will be born as twins rather than siblings? Anyway, still think Japanese tolerances for incest is much higher than anywhere else, so i will pick the later option. And... that's not ironic sense of humor, that is simply being an asshole

"Let's pray for the star crossed lovers so they can be reborn as siblings and can never be with each other. Great idea!!"



Anyway what i stated earlier was a Japanese drama cliche, rather than ancient myth. Combined both and we will have Kirino, Kyousuke embraced each other before being run over by a truck. Then the story skipped 16 years later, and readers see them being reborn as twins and continue their hardship over their feelings. Great set up for Oreimo 2, with Kuroneko and Ayase are now the MILFs neighbours of the two sibl.... no let's just stop here, it's heading to some dangerous territories..
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Old 2013-05-08, 04:50   Link #1720
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I know this one, but i thought they will be born as twins rather than siblings? Anyway, still think Japanese tolerances for incest is much higher than anywhere else, so i will pick the later option. And... that's not ironic sense of humor, that is simply being an asshole

"Let's pray for the star crossed lovers so they can be reborn as siblings and can never be with each other. Great idea!!"



Anyway what i stated earlier was a Japanese drama cliche, rather than ancient myth. Combined both and we will have Kirino, Kyousuke embraced each other before being run over by a truck. Then the story skipped 16 years later, and readers see them being reborn as twins and continue their hardship over their feelings. Great set up for Oreimo 2, with Kuroneko and Ayase are now the MILFs neighbours of the two sibl.... no let's just stop here, it's heading to some dangerous territories..
Is your real name Urobutcher Mk 2 or something ......
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