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Old 2013-05-07, 09:51   Link #181
articuzwolf
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Originally Posted by eplipswich View Post
Or so we think. Remember how a guy from the Recon Troops in Episode 1 said they fail to learn anything about the titans at all (and that many of the Recon troops died)?
you didn't see him (the leader) again in episode 4 (although some other members from eps 1 are still there)

5 years relentlessly fighting titan outside the wall and still alive (they must be a beast!)

they also start producing the result (eps 5, lecture flashback) and probably gain respect thanks to colossal and armored titan run amok 5 years ago
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:11   Link #182
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From the OP, you can see the team using guns to fight them off from a platform. There aren't explosive arrows because guns are better.

So, why aren't they using those guns to fight off Titan? I can only think of lack of resources to back up their training. If there are resources... then the higher ups are failing to do their jobs properly.

We can't forget the important fact that there has been 100 years since the last conflict. This plus the fact that the military police/gendarmerie bans books that tells about the outside world, tells a lot about the higher's up attitude towards developing new anti-Eotena tactics. So, you can explain the lack of more efficient ways to fight the titans as part of the intrigue behind the show.

Spoiler for Speculation:
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:57   Link #183
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Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
they also start producing the result (eps 5, lecture flashback) and probably gain respect thanks to colossal and armored titan run amok 5 years ago
Refresher course.

The fact is they never tried to improved their technology. But it can't be help they enjoyed 100 years of peace that made them too lazy to think of expanding. Now the Titans are back with one hell of a soccer player and a tough American football player. They need a more effective and constructive plan. Maintaining what they used to do in times of peace (did they done anything?) will not be effective anymore.
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Old 2013-05-07, 12:22   Link #184
articuzwolf
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Refresher course.

The fact is they never tried to improved their technology. But it can't be help they enjoyed 100 years of peace that made them too lazy to think of expanding. Now the Titans are back with one hell of a soccer player and a tough American football player. They need a more effective and constructive plan. Maintaining what they used to do in times of peace (did they done anything?) will not be effective anymore.
yes, during 5 yeras period they gained "more information" about titan

they built reinforcement around the gate (canal, etc) which are rendered useless when colossus started kicking the wall again

they trained more food for titan

well that's probably all

I personally think as long as electronic side of technology isn't improved/researched/or even founded

they are gonna stuck with that course of technology for few more decades
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Old 2013-05-07, 12:26   Link #185
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Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
yes, during 5 yeras period they gained "more information" about titan

they built reinforcement around the gate (canal, etc) which are rendered useless when colossus started kicking the wall again

they trained more food for titan

well that's probably all

I personally think as long as electronic side of technology isn't improved/researched/or even founded

they are gonna stuck with that course of technology for few more decades
They also improved the cannons on the wall.
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Old 2013-05-07, 14:59   Link #186
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Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
they are kingdom based country, they have king and from what we see (episode 2) not a good or wise one as well.
The king doesn't bother to sacrifice 250,000 (1/5 of the population) to be slaughtered by titan just to solve food shortage problem, the nobleman only cares about their wealth (episode 5) and they sent their best soldier to become a king's guard instead of protecting the people in the frontline (eps 3,4,5) so what made you think they care about exchange rate in order to kill giant?

yes they have a lot of work to do in term of civil rights, but you can't compare ours with theirs since we need several hundreds years revision on civil right which is privilege that they just don't have nor care.



my point since my first post is, if even twin blades + 3DMG (sometimes) couldn't cut deep enough to kill titan (mentioned by Jean and Eren)
since you already agree that kinetic energy might be bigger in my case, what arrow can do with less kinetic energy?
(before you mentioned more arrows again, it's not about more damage but deep enough damage)

other people already mentioned why arrows are bad solution (sitting duck, space, amount of arrows/archers needed) and I already proved it in term of damage that can be delivered.

I didn't say that there is no other more efficient methods to kill titan, they just don't have it at the moment.
remember the fact that recon groups were considered as failure, blasphemer, free food for titan, etc by some people during their 100yrs of peaceful days.
but they also forgot that their limited knowledge about titan is only provided and caused by that same recon group.

colossal and armored titan can be considered as wake up call for them for their ignorance for 100yrs.
It's only been 5 years after their attack, so don't expect them to come up with something new/extravagant to deal with titan. not when they have king and religion inbetween.
because we do know well how science and religion didn't mix well in the past
I was actually trying to ask the question why tactics wasn't developed prior to walled in, when they had more man power, more resources. I wasn't referring to the last 5 years alone.

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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I rest my case. You just can't read, or you don't want to understand.
Actually I read and understand every one of the quotes you listed here. However, if my initial premise was that that why don't they use archers and even if normal arrows doesn't work, explosive arrows is still an option. The bulk of your response to mine is - archer doesn't work, or at least that is the impression I get from all your posts. Because every time I posted that there is always explosive arrows as an option in the initial posts, instead of saying: "hey, explosive arrows will work with archers", you ignore it and just argue why regular arrows does not work. After several rounds of that, I point out that you are ignoring explosive arrows, you then come back and say you didn't and yet still argue against archers, which leads me to think that despite you say there could be other ways to deal area of effect damage from twin blades, you just don't think archers is an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
From the OP, you can see the team using guns to fight them off from a platform. There aren't explosive arrows because guns are better.

So, why aren't they using those guns to fight off Titan? I can only think of lack of resources to back up their training. If there are resources... then the higher ups are failing to do their jobs properly.

We can't forget the important fact that there has been 100 years since the last conflict. This plus the fact that the military police/gendarmerie bans books that tells about the outside world, tells a lot about the higher's up attitude towards developing new anti-Eotena tactics. So, you can explain the lack of more efficient ways to fight the titans as part of the intrigue behind the show.

Spoiler for Speculation:
If they are lacking resource now to mass produce guns, they shouldn't be during the beginning of their fight against titans, why isn't the tactics employed. From the class, it appears the technology was even superior before the wall was built.
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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2013-05-11 at 01:58. Reason: Please use the "edit" button to add content to your post instead of double/triple posting.
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Old 2013-05-07, 17:44   Link #187
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
They also improved the cannons on the wall.
And the Titan just wiped them out like a toys on the shelf...

Anyway... my ingenious After the Titan's first attack defensive plan

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Old 2013-05-07, 18:15   Link #188
SagaraSouske
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A couple things to note:

Based on the depiction of the cannons and the fact they were using grape shot and explosive shells. This is equivalent of cannon technology utilized in history in 18 - 19th century. Firearms with cartridge first appeared in the late 17th century as well. So this world's military technology should be around earth 17-18th century if not a little later.

3D Gear grappling hook from Eren was able to pierce and land in Colossal titan flesh.

The Titan that leaped at the group turned around and ignored the group after it ate Thomas. Their attention span and range appears to be fairly short.

When Titans are eating humans, they are basically standing still.
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Old 2013-05-07, 18:33   Link #189
Endless Knackwurst
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
When Titans are eating humans, they are basically standing still.
Ah, time for morbid combat tactics that crib from other movies:

"One out of two gets swords! The one with the swords attacks! The one without, follows him! When the one with the swords gets eaten, the one who is following picks up the swords and attacks the titan!"
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:06   Link #190
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
I was actually trying to ask the question why tactics wasn't developed prior to walled in, when they had more man power, more resources. I wasn't referring to the last 5 years alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
If they are lacking resource now to mass produce guns, they shouldn't be during the beginning of their fight against titans, why isn't the tactics employed. From the class, it appears the technology was even superior before the wall was built.
That's probably because the humans of that time had even less knowledge of the Titans then ones present in the Walled City did. However the beginning narration of episode 2 showed images of humans fighting back with spears. This suggest two things:

-Humans did not have the 3D gear.
-Humans likely did not know about the Titans weakness.

I also don't think they were in general more advanced than the ones in the present aside from perhaps those that created the Walled City.

We don't know much about century prior to main story, hell we don't know much about current world. But seems a that part of plot is finding that out.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2013-05-08 at 04:18.
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:09   Link #191
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post

I also don't think they were in general more advanced than the ones in the present aside from perhaps those that created the Walled City.
So advanced that they can't even remove a boulder....
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:33   Link #192
Iron Maw
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So advanced that they can't even remove a boulder....
They can move boulders just fine, it's replacing the huge opening in the Wall with them in time that is the problem.
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:40   Link #193
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
They can move boulders just fine, it's replacing the huge opening in the Wall with them in time that is the problem.
No. I seen that one huge boulder on the wall is unmovable...
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:52   Link #194
Iron Maw
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No. I seen that one huge boulder on the wall is unmovable...
Armin said that they haven't manage to dig it up yet, not they can't. I don't see why this proves (other than the people who built the city) that people of the past were more advanced.
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:12   Link #195
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I was being sarcastic there...

Now then... they ignored the boulder during the wall's construction....
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:15   Link #196
Iron Maw
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Ah nevermind. lol
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Old 2013-05-07, 22:37   Link #197
articuzwolf
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
I was actually trying to ask the question why tactics wasn't developed prior to walled in, when they had more man power, more resources. I wasn't referring to the last 5 years alone.
iron maw already answered it

and you know what people tend to do, slacking off until something is really needed and went panic after too late (yes that's happen, I'm undergrad student so THAT's happen a lot )

in fact if there's no recon group, there wouldn't be any 3DMG + twin blades method probably

they might, like you said, lining up on the wall firing cannons, guns and arrows
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Old 2013-05-07, 22:46   Link #198
SagaraSouske
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
That's probably because the humans of that time had even less knowledge of the Titans then ones present in the Walled City did. However the beginning narration of episode showed images of humans fighting back with spears. This suggest two things:

-Humans did not have the 3D gear.
-Humans likely did not know about the Titans weakness.

I also don't think they were in general more advanced than the ones in the present aside from perhaps those that created the Walled City.

We don't know much about century prior to main story, hell we don't know much about current world. But seems a that part of plot is finding that out.
Less knowledge about titan may be true. But if overwhelming majority of the population was wiped out, there must be a long drawn out war where at some point they ought to learn about the neck being the weak spot. May be that knowledge is learned but lost.

As for tech level, it is said that they had cannons since long ago. You also see illustration of them using cannons. So the tech level is similar. But with most of the humans wiped out, I think it is more likely knowledge is lost then they advanced much in tech. Any advancement would like be very specific.
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:58   Link #199
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
Less knowledge about titan may be true. But if overwhelming majority of the population was wiped out, there must be a long drawn out war where at some point they ought to learn about the neck being the weak spot. May be that knowledge is learned but lost.
Spoiler for Comparison to the manga:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-11 at 14:19.
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Old 2013-05-08, 03:25   Link #200
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Originally Posted by EssTEss View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to the manga:
Spoiler for Comparison to the manga:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-11 at 14:19.
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