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Old 2013-05-07, 17:18   Link #961
Kyuu
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Alright a new topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
I find the political "re-framing" of words to be downright disingenuous, as they all try to pretend the other side doesn't exist. It's about safety AND rights AND control. Trying to say it's all about "gun safety" and not about "gun control" is about as full of **** as when the conservative camp try to say it's about "protecting marriage" instead of discrimination.
The Power of Language.

It's a matter of choosing language for maximum effect. I notice Relentlessflame's call to halt discussion as "gun control".

With the word "control", what does that associate with? Loss of power. Seizing to that of a greater (but human controlled) power. I can easily understand the fear associated with that, because like hell would I want to give up certain freedoms to control too.

Most notably, anything pertaining to the Internet, like the SOPA, PIPA, and other similar bills seeping into Congress.

When I was hearing Obama calling Social Security and Medicare as "entitlement programs"... that's when an alarm should kick in. When "one side or the other" begin to adopt each other's language, that's when y'know views are being extended.

And I'll have to give credit to the Republicans, when it comes to language use. Their constant use of the "Two Word Sound-byte" had long been effective, such that their vocabulary dominates discussion.

So yea, there's a much bigger issue here. It's a matter of steering America towards a "safe society" rather than that of "destruction". With this, I'm looking at the likes of Wall Street, who'd still profit from something like that.
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Old 2013-05-07, 17:25   Link #962
Vexx
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All politics involves word loading - it is basic to the topic. Define the words being used and you can control the debate before it starts.

I try not to use the word "pirate" or "piracy" in regard to copyright issues. Piracy is about killing people, looting the corpses, and sinking/stealing the ships. Not the same thing at all as making a digital copy ("replicators").

I avoid the word "intellectual property" because it isn't a legal term, it's a conflation of copyright, patent, and trademark laws - all very different things. It also tries to create the bogus idea of ideas or thoughts as "property" which has legal precedent only as a term for physical artifacts.

Anti-choice versus pro-life ... because pro-lifers are also very often "don't care after you're born" types (raise the hypocrisy flag).

Yeah, the "entitlement" mislabeling is particularly infuriating. Should I call tax evasion by large corporations "entitlements"? They don't even pay into the system like Social Security participants do.

Example abound through time and space. Control the language and you can corral the argument be you left, right, up or down.
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:32   Link #963
ganbaru
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Gay rights amendment offered to immigration bill in Congress
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94700N20130508
Quote:
U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy on Tuesday proposed a gay rights amendment to the Senate's immigration bill, prompting one of the measure's Republican sponsors to repeat his prediction that it could sink the legislation.

"It'll kill the bill," Florida Senator Marco Rubio said in a brief interview. "There is a coalition of groups who are supporting immigration reform who will not support it if that's in there."
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:59   Link #964
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Gay rights amendment offered to immigration bill in Congress
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94700N20130508
Oh, he's so right:

Quote:
Originally Posted by article
"It'll kill the bill," Florida Senator Marco Rubio said in a brief interview. "There is a coalition of groups who are supporting immigration reform who will not support it if that's in there."
Either way, this puts the Republicans in a trap.

* If it passes, they'll have to answer to the party base.
* If it is rejected, there goes their effort towards Latino outreach.
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:00   Link #965
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-Orrin Hatch

Why is he still alive and in office?
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:05   Link #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Anti-choice versus pro-life ... because pro-lifers are also very often "don't care after you're born" types (raise the hypocrisy flag).
I had a very good discussion with another user on this forum about abortion via PMs. The conclusion we reached was that "anti-choice" was a bit incendiary, because it implies that these people are against a woman's right to choice about a number of things. What they're really against is abortion. Hence, "anti-abortion" is a more accurate term that also shouldn't immediately put any person who is anti-abortion into a totally defensive, upset (unreasonable) stance. (Although I agree with you that "pro-life" is a term that is a bit self-serving, as it implies that the opposing side is "anti-life," and only demons and psychopaths would be against life. The magic of words.)

Back to politics, has anyone been following former governor of South Carolina Mark Sanford? This was the guy who totally disappeared from office for a few days without leaving a word, such that even his aids didn't know where he was. It then turned out that he was in South America, seeing his mistress, cheating on his wife. That's pretty ballsy, not to mention totally irresponsible, amoral, unethical, and just poor behavior overall. Well, apparently the guy is even ballsier, because he ran for a seat in the House of Representatives in the same state.

And amazingly, CNN is projecting that he's going to win this race.

I'm really surprised. The guy exhibited poor judgment and poor behavior, and he might win - he's doing well enough to likely win? Was his opponent that bad, are South Carolina voters that forgiving, or do people just have really, really short memories?
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:08   Link #967
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Sanford can win because he is running in a SUPER Republican state. The only reason the election was newsworthy was that he was such a horrible candidate, and that means there was a tiny chance he might lose.

As Maddow said, we are about to find out how bad a R can be while still get elected.
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:09   Link #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post

I'm really surprised. The guy exhibited poor judgment and poor behavior, and he might win - he's doing well enough to likely win? Was his opponent that bad, are South Carolina voters that forgiving, or do people just have really, really short memories?
Senator David Vitter says hello.
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:14   Link #969
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
And amazingly, CNN is projecting that he's going to win this race.

I'm really surprised. The guy exhibited poor judgment and poor behavior, and he might win - he's doing well enough to likely win? Was his opponent that bad, are South Carolina voters that forgiving, or do people just have really, really short memories?
I regularly attend a Lutheran Church, which vehemently opposed to the Gay Marriage and Abortion stuff. Of course, I chose economic and national issues to be priority. Social? Not so much, though y'obviously see me clamping on the gun thing. As long as church law retains Biblical principles, then anyone religious does not have much to worry about. Even if Gay Marriage has taken momentum, churches have every right not to observe them, as protected in the First Amendment.

Here's my take on this Sanford vote. As religious as many of these voters claim to be -- apparently, adultery is totally acceptable. If that's the case, how many of 'em have hot wives?
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Old 2013-05-07, 20:18   Link #970
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Politicians and morality do not mix.

But hey! Better an adulterer and a liar then someone that commits the crime of supporting abortion that kills many lives. Remember, pro-choicers are now worse than Hitler. And also, he's white, so he's less likely to steal from people.
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Old 2013-05-07, 22:16   Link #971
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Politicians and morality do not mix.

But hey! Better an adulterer and a liar then someone that commits the crime of supporting abortion that kills many lives. Remember, pro-choicers are now worse than Hitler. And also, he's white, so he's less likely to steal from people.
And he wins. This will look great with women for the next 2 years.
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Old 2013-05-08, 00:31   Link #972
speedyexpress48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Obama urges graduates to blunt special interests by getting involved
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9440AC20130505
True, the more people that are involved, the less power special interests have...and the better off we are. Unfortunately, half of the population is still asleep and oblivious to what is going on (and it will stay that way until more states fall like California, where people have just started to pay attention, sorta).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I'm really surprised. The guy exhibited poor judgment and poor behavior, and he might win - he's doing well enough to likely win? Was his opponent that bad, are South Carolina voters that forgiving, or do people just have really, really short memories?
In a lot of Southern states, people would rather vote for a criminal than ever vote for a Democrat (historically it was the other way around, but, you know, Civil Rights and all that..) The good' ol boy voters will vote for anyone who puts up the allusion of being a good moral Republican no matter how much obvious BS it is.

(See; David Vitter, Newt Gingrich, Scott DesJarlais...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Politicians and morality do not mix.

But hey! Better an adulterer and a liar then someone that commits the crime of supporting abortion that kills many lives. Remember, pro-choicers are now worse than Hitler. And also, he's white, so he's less likely to steal from people.
And...yeah, this is where Scott DesJarlais comes in; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2139110.html

You don't even have to believe the shit you say to get elected. Ahh, GOP morality....yeaaaaah, right.
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Old 2013-05-08, 02:46   Link #973
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyexpress48 View Post
In a lot of Southern states, people would rather vote for a criminal than ever vote for a Democrat (historically it was the other way around, but, you know, Civil Rights and all that..) The good' ol boy voters will vote for anyone who puts up the allusion of being a good moral Republican no matter how much obvious BS it is.

(See; David Vitter, Newt Gingrich, Scott DesJarlais...)
Sadly, there's a new example to add:
Disgraced South Carolina ex-governor Sanford wins House seat
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9460BI20130508

Edit: GOP Benghazi probe stokes political controversy
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-08-03-12-35
Not much of a surprise here.
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2013-05-08 at 04:31.
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Old 2013-05-08, 10:41   Link #974
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Analysis: Hedge funds in search of distress take a look at Detroit

Quote:
Now these same funds may be poised to descend on another landscape: struggling cities and counties - and no place beckons more than Detroit.
When is anyone going to name their company Omni Consumer Products there?
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Old 2013-05-08, 12:26   Link #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Analysis: Hedge funds in search of distress take a look at Detroit



When is anyone going to name their company Omni Consumer Products there?
After they buy out the Umbrella Corp.
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Old 2013-05-08, 12:57   Link #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
After they buy out the Umbrella Corp.
And start Sarif Industries.
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Old 2013-05-08, 15:17   Link #977
Kyuu
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Here's another issue that's not getting a limelight:

Spoiler:


http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,3954620.story

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Students taking out government loans to help pay for college should pay the same rock-bottom interest rate that the Federal Reserve charges big banks, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) proposed Wednesday.

With the interest rate on federal student loans set to double to 6.8% this summer, Warren said it's unfair that big banks can borrow money at 0.75% from the central bank's discount window.
Of course, the root of the corruption is the interest rate from the Federal Reserve to the banks -- which is about virtually nothing. Banks get free money (and party time) -- while everyone else... gets... the bill.
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Old 2013-05-08, 15:19   Link #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Here's another issue that's not getting a limelight:

Spoiler:


http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,3954620.story
i would add, so should Home Owners.
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Old 2013-05-08, 15:38   Link #979
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Here's another issue that's not getting a limelight:

Spoiler:


http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,3954620.story

Of course, the root of the corruption is the interest rate from the Federal Reserve to the banks -- which is about virtually nothing. Banks get free money (and party time) -- while everyone else... gets... the bill.
From the bankers' side, in the current job market it is harder for students to be able to pay back, hence the risk is calculated in the interest rate.

Yes that is the logic - a Wall Street has a better chance of earning money than a student. Therefore a student holds more risk due to lack of job opportunities.

I only agree with this when the student studies art or philosophy. Even culinary and fashion studies has a higher chance of landing the students in a job as ad-hoc fresh-catering chefs and freelance image consultants, and like most developed countries, there is a huge fucking shortage AND appreciation for Engineers.

I still cannot understand why someone who moves money in and out of the bank can get paid more than someone who designs, builds and maintain machines to reduce physical workload and get things done faster with less risk of human casualties.
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Old 2013-05-08, 15:45   Link #980
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
From the bankers' side, in the current job market it is harder for students to be able to pay back, hence the risk is calculated in the interest rate.

Yes that is the logic - a Wall Street has a better chance of earning money than a student. Therefore a student holds more risk due to lack of job opportunities.
And of being bailed out by the government if things go pear shaped.
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