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Old 2013-05-13, 19:39   Link #28141
synaesthetic
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The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
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Old 2013-05-13, 19:50   Link #28142
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
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Old 2013-05-13, 19:53   Link #28143
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
Do all pro-lifers oppose condom use as well? Because it seems to me like this is more an attempt to take sexual freedom away from women specifically, relegating them to "barefoot and pregnant" staying in the kitchen.
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:06   Link #28144
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Do all pro-lifers oppose condom use as well? Because it seems to me like this is more an attempt to take sexual freedom away from women specifically, relegating them to "barefoot and pregnant" staying in the kitchen.
There isn't a 1:1 but there's a Huge Overlap even to the extent of being anti-condom and trying to assert unimplanted fertilized eggs are "people" (which is a problem when nearly every woman flushes fertilized eggs that don't implant).
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:37   Link #28145
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The more the nutjobs try and restrict abortion, the more shit like this will start happening again. Apparently "pro-lifers" are fond of coathanger abortions.
When you are saying more "shit" like this this, are you talking about the trial or the action of this doctor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
I could actually argue against this. There are parents who are likely to abort base on the gender and potentially babies being twin, with twin being more financially burdening. One could argue that in some they are stopping abortion to prevent such events.

I feel that article from Reuters did not provide enough details.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...207178491.html
This article provides more detail, the most interesting part are the juries, all of them were pro-choices or had no particular strong opinion on women's right.
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:41   Link #28146
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
When you are saying more "shit" like this this, are you talking about the trial or the action of this doctor?
I could actually argue against this. There are parents who are likely to abort base on the gender and potentially babies being twin, with twin being more financially burdening. One could argue that in some they are stopping abortion to prevent such events.

I feel that article from Reuters did not provide enough details.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...207178491.html
This article provides more detail, the most interesting part are the juries, all of them were pro-choices or had no particular strong opinion on women's right.
I'm sorry, that's like banning cars because some people have accidents. The ratio doesn't justify it.
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:43   Link #28147
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International Space Station (May 13, Mon): There was danger, hard graft, and the usual antics of life in orbit, but for millions of onlookers the latest mission to the International Space Station was about the rise of a new star: a moustached Canadian with a penchant for guitar.

Chris Hadfield, Canada's first commander of the ISS, was due to land early on Tuesday after a five-month mission that raised the 53-year-old former test pilot to celebrity status around the world.

His stint in space marks a shift in the astronaut breed, away from the robotic iciness of Nasa's early crews to the more modern species that openly revels in the wonder of falling round the Earth.

Hadfield rose to fame after embracing social media, from Facebook to Twitter, with a little technical help from Evan, his 27-year-old son. He sent missives from space, posted breathtaking photos and sang a duet with the Barenaked Ladies.

But his parting shot from far above the world topped them all. In a video filmed aboard the station, Hadfield donned jeans and a T-shirt to cover the Bowie classic, Space Oddity. The rendition, complete with pensive stares, strummed chords and graceful spins of a floating guitar, went viral – Bowie himself retweeted it, quoting his 1995 song Hallo Spaceboy.

THE GUARDIAN
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:52   Link #28148
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm sorry, that's like banning cars because some people have accidents. The ratio doesn't justify it.
True, you most likely be right. But do you not think that saying that is the only excuse is too strong?
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:53   Link #28149
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
I could actually argue against this. There are parents who are likely to abort base on the gender and potentially babies being twin, with twin being more financially burdening. One could argue that in some they are stopping abortion to prevent such events.
Then why are they trying to ban all abortions? If that were their reasoning, then they'd only need to put a block on abortions after, what, 13 weeks? They're talking day 1 right now.
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Old 2013-05-13, 20:59   Link #28150
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Then why are they trying to ban all abortions? If that were their reasoning, then they'd only need to put a block on abortions after, what, 13 weeks? They're talking day 1 right now.
Those type of people are idiots. I personally am against abortion, but I do not advocate ban on abortion. I am fine with laws stating then fetuses can't be aborted after certain weeks. I would like to think that there are pro-life people with more rationally that banning all types of abortion is idiotic.

Also, that trial before, I do not think it should be related in pro-life vs pro-choice debates. It has nothing to do with, the doctor aborted fetuses after 24 weeks, which was against the state law.
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Old 2013-05-13, 21:03   Link #28151
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American Culture Wars stand out in that they're over minor-to-non issues compared to the real problems they're distracting everyone from, tend to involve lengths of absurdity in rationalizing crackpot objectives and views of the instigators, and that they bring the whole world down with their shenanigans.
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Old 2013-05-13, 21:50   Link #28152
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Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
American Culture Wars stand out in that they're over minor-to-non issues compared to the real problems they're distracting everyone from, tend to involve lengths of absurdity in rationalizing crackpot objectives and views of the instigators, and that they bring the whole world down with their shenanigans.
As much as I can understand why issues like abortion or gay marriage are important to people, it's like you said, they're ultimately fringe topics that dominate people's focus. Though since the recession people have been more focused on 'the economy'... Not that this has led to any concrete political progress.
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Old 2013-05-13, 23:05   Link #28153
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I'll stand away over here while ya'll try that "fringe" stuff on da wimmen who feel they're being personally attacked over that and related issues
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Old 2013-05-13, 23:36   Link #28154
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When you peel the platitudes away and look at what the goals are, the only rational excuse is they want to punish anyone who has sex without the intent to procreate.
Nicolae Ceaușescu must be proud in his grave!
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Old 2013-05-13, 23:44   Link #28155
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AGWAGAGHHugagh!?!?!?! Hu..wagh..!? Buh... CANADA!!!!

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Canada? F*** YAEH!
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Old 2013-05-14, 00:22   Link #28156
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'll stand away over here while ya'll try that "fringe" stuff on da wimmen who feel they're being personally attacked over that and related issues
Except there shouldn't even be a controversy over these things. The controversy is purely manufactured to pit the unwashed masses against each other, distracting us from the real issues.

Gay marriage? Sure. Why not? There's literally no good reason why this shouldn't happen. Every argument against it seems to be based on the religious definition of a word, and the First Amendment prohibits the government from favoring one religion over another. Fake controversy.

Contraceptives? They're absolutely necessary for proper family planning and sexual freedom, not to mention some types (i.e. condoms) preventing sexually transmitted diseases. Fake controversy.

Abortion? Anyone seen how legalized abortion has dropped crime rates? Dropped rates of dangerous "back alley" abortions? Saved a teenage girl from having her whole life ruined because she did something stupid (which teens are highly likely to do)? Fake controversy.

Sex education? We all see how well "abstinence-only" works in the states that practice it which have the highest teen pregnancy rates in the nation. Fake controversy.

Gun control? An endless procession of feel-good laws that do absolutely nothing useful except cost taxpayer dollars and don't prevent violence arrayed against the incredible political and economic clout of the gun lobby. There are loads of simple solutions here that don't cost much and don't infringe on peoples' freedoms, yet they don't even get talked about. Instead we get yet another fake controversy.

The real controversies ought to be looking at Wall Street shenanigans, our absurdly inflated military budget, the sad state of public education and libraries, corruption in government... and get the hell out of our bedrooms and our reproductive organs.
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Old 2013-05-14, 00:27   Link #28157
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Saved a teenage girl from having her whole life ruined because she did something stupid (which teens are highly likely to do)?
The only argument I don't accept. That is just irresponsibility.

Heck, most of the time abortion is done due to irresponsible behavior. I can't really get why people are so willing to overlook that.
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Old 2013-05-14, 00:34   Link #28158
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Doctor found guilty of murder in Philadelphia abortion trial
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94C0WU20130513
Punish not only the doctor but the mothers. Period.
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Old 2013-05-14, 00:44   Link #28159
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The only argument I don't accept. That is just irresponsibility.

Heck, most of the time abortion is done due to irresponsible behavior. I can't really get why people are so willing to overlook that.
So other people's lives should be destroyed because a teenager was stupid? Consider what sort of life that child is going to have. Consider how the teen's family will be financially damaged by a dumb teen making a dumb mistake.

Having a child is one of the biggest responsibilities any average person will ever take on, and it's also one of the most expensive things as well. Should a teenager--probably the time of life when humans make more major mistakes than any other time--have her entire life decimated because she couldn't out-willpower her hormones?

Sorry, but I don't have a problem overlooking it at all. I don't think teenagers should have to suffer such massive punitive retribution for stupidity when we already know teenagers are stupidity generators. They need to fail, but not so much it dooms them to a miserable life--not to mention forcing a miserable life on a different human that did not actually make any dumb decisions.

Aborting a teen pregnancy is the only responsible and smart decision. Even putting the kid up for adoption is fraught with danger and unknowns--the foster care system in this country is a god damn nightmare and a half. Keeping the baby is just absurd unless the family happens to be wealthy.
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Old 2013-05-14, 00:48   Link #28160
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Wouldn't make the most sense to have that arguement be between women? Since that seems to be the group most effected by such debates. The men don't aways sit back and do nothing, but it effects them the least....physically anyway.
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