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Old 2013-05-11, 18:06   Link #61
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I have a sneaking suspicion that Doflamingo is going to end up being a sympathetic villain. With Vergo's comment to Law that he knows nothing about his master's past and how caring he is to his subordinates, Doflamingo isn't seeming as bad as I originally thought. When everything culminates in Doflamingo's defeat, Fujitora is most likely going to capture and arrest him for his crimes. It's approximately at that point where we'll see Fujitora's real nasty side (we caught a glimpse of it back at the bar). Most likely he'll let the strawhats off the hook for their contribution to stopping Doflamingo, but that's where he'll cement himself as a future obstacle.

Just giving my two cents on how I think this arc will end.
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Old 2013-05-13, 07:19   Link #62
danielevo
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I was think that Coby will eat mera mera fruit previously, but after i remember that Sabo is alive, could it be that Sabo will appear suddenly and get mera mera fruit ? anyone agree with my opinion ?
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Old 2013-05-13, 08:38   Link #63
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I was think that Coby will eat mera mera fruit previously, but after i remember that Sabo is alive, could it be that Sabo will appear suddenly and get mera mera fruit ? anyone agree with my opinion ?
We don't know he's alive yet...ok he probably is, but we still have no confirmation of it yet.
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Old 2013-05-13, 08:57   Link #64
james0246
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I have a sneaking suspicion that Doflamingo is going to end up being a sympathetic villain. With Vergo's comment to Law that he knows nothing about his master's past and how caring he is to his subordinates, Doflamingo isn't seeming as bad as I originally thought. When everything culminates in Doflamingo's defeat, Fujitora is most likely going to capture and arrest him for his crimes. It's approximately at that point where we'll see Fujitora's real nasty side (we caught a glimpse of it back at the bar). Most likely he'll let the strawhats off the hook for their contribution to stopping Doflamingo, but that's where he'll cement himself as a future obstacle.

Just giving my two cents on how I think this arc will end.
I don't know if "sympathetic" is the word you're looking for... maybe the phrase 'less of a monster' is a better fit. No matter DoFlamingo's associations with his crew or his country, he is still a slaver who willingly employes despicable people like Caesar. DoFlamingo may not kick all the puppies he comes across, but that doesn't necessarily make him sympathetic, he could just understand that some of the puppies he doesn't kick he can instead turn into guard dogs that willingly obey him.

That being said, I kind of hope DoFlamingo and Fujitora both fall this arc. We're past the half-way mark, so we need some solid advancement in the plot. DoFlamingo falling is good, but Fujitora falling as well would be even better.
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Old 2013-05-13, 14:19   Link #65
marvelB
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DoFlamingo falling is good, but Fujitora falling as well would be even better.


Still harping on about THAT now, eh? Look, I don't know what personal vendetta you have against old timers, but don't take out your anger on these elderly enforcers of justice, okay? They're only doing their job! And is it really okay to pick on the blind guy, at that? Now, now, James, I thought you were better than that.....




On a more serious note, I still see no reason for any admirals to fall at this point, much less one that was newly introduced to this arc. They represent the best of the best of the marines, so I really can't help but feel that it would be more appropriate for any of them to fall at a much later point in Luffy and co.'s journey. Like maybe once the crew gets closer to Raftel or something. Otherwise, it wouldn't look very good for Akainu's regime if an admiral were toppled like a day or two upon the Straw-Hats' arrival in the New World.
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Old 2013-05-13, 14:45   Link #66
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Still harping on about THAT now, eh? Look, I don't know what personal vendetta you have against old timers, but don't take out your anger on these elderly enforcers of justice, okay? They're only doing their job! And is it really okay to pick on the blind guy, at that? Now, now, James, I thought you were better than that.....
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On a more serious note, I still see no reason for any admirals to fall at this point, much less one that was newly introduced to this arc.
He had no real set-up, he is a new face and new name (to us), so just like any other stock villain for a story arc (of which this arc is already jam packed full of), he can rise or fall based on how useful he could be later in the story. His fall now could greatly enhance the current story and the future plot (similar to Ace spending a 100 chapters looking for Blackbeard, then spending another 100 chapters waiting for war), or he could survive only to fall later (not all opponents must be defeated before the end, but several monumental events must transpire, and an Admiral falling is just one of many).

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Otherwise, it wouldn't look very good for Akainu's regime if an admiral were toppled like a day or two upon the Straw-Hats' arrival in the New World.
Depends on how they fall. If this upcoming battle turns into an even greater free-for-all with Blackbeard showing up (his crewmate is fighting afterall) or even Kaidou coming to breath down Doflamingo's neck, then whose to what could happen.
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Old 2013-05-13, 16:49   Link #67
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
He had no real set-up, he is a new face and new name (to us), so just like any other stock villain for a story arc (of which this arc is already jam packed full of), he can rise or fall based on how useful he could be later in the story. His fall now could greatly enhance the current story and the future plot (similar to Ace spending a 100 chapters looking for Blackbeard, then spending another 100 chapters waiting for war), or he could survive only to fall later (not all opponents must be defeated before the end, but several monumental events must transpire, and an Admiral falling is just one of many).
The likelihood of Fujitora falling in this arc is slim-to-none. He's undoubtedly the strongest person on the island. The only feasible way he could get taken down is by a team effort or someone even stronger than him intervening. The monumental event of this arc would be Doflamingo's fall. Seriously, this guy has been built up for hundreds of chapters and we finally have gotten to his arc. As I've mentioned before, I foresee this arc being the New World equivalent to Alabasta; it will be end up being pivotal and highly consequential to what's to come in the future plot.
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Old 2013-05-13, 16:51   Link #68
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Actually thinking about it, i kinda think that fujitora might end up being Zoro's opponent much later on in the story. The guy does wield a sword so he may be an accomplished swordsman and it seems fitting that Zoro should be able to take down someone as powerful as an admiral before he goes on to take on Mihawk. Much later on in the storyline, we could have the strawhats go into a huge battle against the marines a battle where Luffy will have to take on Akainu; and while Luffy is fighting the fleet admiral, Zoro will find himself taking on Fujitora

Not to mention i might say it would be a little much for both Doflamingo AND an admiral to be taken down in the same arc. I kinda think that if any admiral might fall to show Luffy's advancement, it might be kizaru... much like how after the time skip the strawhats fought the same pacifistas that they struggled against before the time skip, Luffy may have to fight against Kizaru, the guy who forced the entire crew into retreat, to show how much he has grown... Its basically a something of a destined rematch.
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Old 2013-05-13, 16:53   Link #69
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I might also think that if any admiral might fall, it might be kizaru... much like how after the time skip the strawhats fought the same pacifistas that they struggled against before the time skip, Luffy may have to fight against Kizaru, the guy who forced the entire crew into retreat, to show how much he has grown... Its basically a something of a destined rematch.
Someone else should fight Kizaru. Luffy already has enough big names to contend with. Let some other characters get the spot light, I say.
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Old 2013-05-13, 17:32   Link #70
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^(If I had to choose) I kind of want Sanji to fight Kizaru, if only because the admiral uses so many kicks in his attacks...
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Old 2013-05-13, 18:48   Link #71
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Not to mention i might say it would be a little much for both Doflamingo AND an admiral to be taken down in the same arc. I kinda think that if any admiral might fall to show Luffy's advancement, it might be kizaru... much like how after the time skip the strawhats fought the same pacifistas that they struggled against before the time skip, Luffy may have to fight against Kizaru, the guy who forced the entire crew into retreat, to show how much he has grown... Its basically a something of a destined rematch.

Eh, really Kizaru didn't do much to Luffy pre-skip. If anything, I'd still say Zoro should take a crack at him since he was closest to being killed by that particular admiral. Otherwise, Luffy's pretty much got dibs on Akainu for more obvious reasons.


And besides, Kizaru seems to have a sort of pattern where he fights the first mates of powerful crews, anyway (Rayleigh, Marco).


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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
He had no real set-up, he is a new face and new name (to us), so just like any other stock villain for a story arc (of which this arc is already jam packed full of), he can rise or fall based on how useful he could be later in the story. His fall now could greatly enhance the current story and the future plot (similar to Ace spending a 100 chapters looking for Blackbeard, then spending another 100 chapters waiting for war), or he could survive only to fall later (not all opponents must be defeated before the end, but several monumental events must transpire, and an Admiral falling is just one of many).


The fact that Fujitora had little build-up so far is exactly the reason why I don't see him falling now. Sudden introduction or not, the man is still an admiral, and the fact that he is one means he has too much story weight to be toppled so soon, IMO. At least Dofla, as already mentioned, already had hundreds of chapters to establish himself as the menacing entity that he is. So while I agree that he is ripe for the picking, I can't say the same for the blind old man. He needs some time to be active and marinate with the story's flow before it's finally time for him to go down (and even then, it's not guaranteed that the Straw-Hats will have a final battle against him since he seems to be more of a neutral party like Aokiji). IMO, it would be plain sloppy writing on Oda's part to introduce a new admiral just for him to get fodderized in his debut arc......
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Old 2013-05-13, 23:18   Link #72
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^Crocodile, Moria, Enel, the CP9 et al would like to disagree (really almost all the villians). They all showed up, had little set-up (Crocodile was the only one with any real set-up), did their thing, then left via stage left. Position does not really matter unless the characters have some purpose later on (even then, the majority were still defeated).

Do I really think Tora will fall? No. But, it would be interesting and definitely not as unexpected as you make it out to be.
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Old 2013-05-14, 13:03   Link #73
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How much time do you need to build up someone?
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Old 2013-05-14, 13:37   Link #74
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I doubt Doflamingo will be turned into a "nice" guy in this arc...
from all the past material he has been portrayed to be and do nothing but evil acts... (threatening govt official, attacking innocent people, turning friends against each other, etc...)

imo, he will fall in this arc, the SH need a big event like this to kick off there emergence in the new world
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Old 2013-05-14, 14:18   Link #75
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imo, he will fall in this arc, the SH need a big event like this to kick off there emergence in the new world
by this you mean "making more enemies"
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Old 2013-05-14, 17:26   Link #76
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^Crocodile, Moria, Enel, the CP9 et al would like to disagree (really almost all the villians). They all showed up, had little set-up (Crocodile was the only one with any real set-up), did their thing, then left via stage left. Position does not really matter unless the characters have some purpose later on (even then, the majority were still defeated).
Those aforementioned characters you listed were established as the main antagonists/villains, though. Fujitora does not fit that role here; Doflamingo does. Fujitora seems to be what Kuma was to Thriller Bark or Kizaru to the Sabaody Archipelago. He's not the main threat that needs to be toppled, rather he's the more powerful adversary overseeing things and waiting to make a move.
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Old 2013-05-14, 19:07   Link #77
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How much time do you need to build up someone?

Well, more than a single chapter, obviously!



Anyway, though the spoilers have NOT come out yet, I went ahead and made the new thread a bit earlier just in case AP crashes again and Aohige or someone else needs a place to post the summary when it DOES come out.
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Old 2013-05-14, 19:56   Link #78
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Those aforementioned characters you listed were established as the main antagonists/villains, though. Fujitora does not fit that role here; Doflamingo does. Fujitora seems to be what Kuma was to Thriller Bark or Kizaru to the Sabaody Archipelago. He's not the main threat that needs to be toppled, rather he's the more powerful adversary overseeing things and waiting to make a move.
Has Doflamingo really been established as the main antagonist (for Luffy)? Honestly Doflamingo is more Law's antagonist rather than Luffy's. Of every character actually on the proverbial battlefield Jesus or Tora are the more likely antagonist for Luffy purely due to their connection (however tenuous) to Ace (one is part of the crew that captured Ace, the other part of the group that killed Ace).
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Old 2013-05-14, 20:29   Link #79
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^This is more of a hunch than anything, but I think what's ultimately going to cement Dofla's status as Luffy's main foe this arc will be their conflicting ideologies. I had briefly brought this up in my earlier post about Sabo, but this applies more than ever here: Think of the Bellamy conflict in Jaya. Who was the one who planted those ideas of spitting on people's dreams in those people's heads in the first place? If it was Dofla, then that means he's the very root of the conflict in question.



In fact, this is very likely the reason why Oda reintroduced us to Bellamy in this arc in the first place: We can learn through him about what makes Dofla such an influential person in the first place. Why does Bellamy idolize this man to the point that he even went to the trouble of bringing him a gift from a sky island, apparently at the cost of his own crew? How does a guy who dabbles in underground slave trade and weapons manufacturing earn so much respect from so many people, even after abdicating his status as both a warlord AND king? If he was able to rise as high as he did by ridiculing and stomping on the dreams of others, well..... could you really see Luffy take that sitting down?
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Old 2013-05-14, 21:38   Link #80
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Has Doflamingo really been established as the main antagonist (for Luffy)? Honestly Doflamingo is more Law's antagonist rather than Luffy's. Of every character actually on the proverbial battlefield Jesus or Tora are the more likely antagonist for Luffy purely due to their connection (however tenuous) to Ace (one is part of the crew that captured Ace, the other part of the group that killed Ace).
Whether Doflamingo is reserved for Law or Luffy or perhaps both to be dealt with, I'm sure we can agree that he's the big bad to get taken down in this arc. Luffy having a hostility towards Jesus and/or Fujitora by reason of association is weak writing.
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