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Old 2013-05-07, 13:47   Link #701
Byakou
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Just by knowing what's going to happen, you may say lots of spoilers/hints without even realizing it.


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Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Also episode 7 preview.
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I'm worried for Brienne. But that looks like Jaime jumping down at 0.29, a rescue maybe?
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Old 2013-05-07, 17:02   Link #702
Midnight Commander
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I don't think it left without him, but rather he left on it.
He might be on the ship, yes. But I was almost certain he had some involvement with Sansa's new groom to be, and assumed he'd use that as incentive for her to escape Kings Landing on his ship, (especially considering the way he was sweet talking her when they were alone) but when I saw his ship leaving without her, I wasn't really sure.

Quote:
Assuming it was his, of course (and given how Sansa is crying at its departure, I'm sure it is).
Yes, I'm pretty sure its his also, considering his sigil is on the sail, and the timing of it being shown.
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Old 2013-05-07, 17:25   Link #703
CJ_Walker
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F**k me, that was a damn good episode. . .

this show is pretty much my favorite show of all time now.

one thing though. . .Theon. Yeah I know Theon had his comming to him, but I think he's been tortured enough by now. . .why do they keep showing us this?

But wow, these actors should be getting some awards for this, it's just amazing. never seen so many great actors/performances in one show before!
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Old 2013-05-12, 23:58   Link #704
creb
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So, who's next on Tywin's list to cow?

Poor, poor Theon. Has there been a character who's endured this much, this long, throughout the course of the show to date?

Anyone else feel hot as heck watching the Wildlings walking around with all those furs on south of the Wall? That must have been torturous to shoot for the actors.

Does anyone else feel it's strange that the Wildlings don't have stories of their previous attempts to invade the south? I don't know if this is supposed to be a back-handed statement on the differences in education between civilization and the wild people, but you'd think a nomadic people would hold far more of their history in stories than the "civilized" folk.

Also, it's always bugged me why Daenerys didn't just take the ships from Astapor to Westeros.
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Old 2013-05-13, 07:58   Link #705
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Does anyone else feel it's strange that the Wildlings don't have stories of their previous attempts to invade the south? I don't know if this is supposed to be a back-handed statement on the differences in education between civilization and the wild people, but you'd think a nomadic people would hold far more of their history in stories than the "civilized" folk.
Well, generally there have to be survivors to pass along stories. If they're like the current crop, who seem to have sent everyone past the wall, and they all died, then how would any other tribes know that it was attempted?
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Old 2013-05-13, 09:13   Link #706
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Does anyone else feel it's strange that the Wildlings don't have stories of their previous attempts to invade the south? I don't know if this is supposed to be a back-handed statement on the differences in education between civilization and the wild people, but you'd think a nomadic people would hold far more of their history in stories than the "civilized" folk.
Well the Wildlings don't have anything like the Maestors to act as impartial chroniclers of history in books. The wildlings do have oral tradition, but they're probably not quite interested in making a good account of all the times that they lost. Or of when some OTHER wildling tribe lost.

Collectively the Southerns have a better sense of history than the Wildlings.
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Also, it's always bugged me why Daenerys didn't just take the ships from Astapor to Westeros.
Because the Dragons are still immature at this point. The most they could accomplish in a battle is perhaps to blunt a cavalry charge by torching the first few dozen men in its vanguard. But try to attack a castle or a battle line head on and they'd be under too much risk of getting taken out by arrows. Sure she has the Unsullied, but only 8 thousand of them. And they're all spearmen. She doesn't have cavalry or archers. This isn't a force to conquer a continent with.


There's also the fact that once she makes landfall on Westeros, people like Tywin will quickly come to realize that Dany's dragons are NOT pathetic stunted creatures with heads the size of apples. They're quick, virile, ferocious and growing at an alarming pace. If Dany lands on Westeros prematurely, you very well could see a number of factions ganging up on her due to recognizing her as the biggest potential future threat.

It's that HUGE potential future threat is why Dany is holding off on departing Essos, and is building up her strength. Once the Dragons are mature, Dany is going to have air supremacy, and be able to call in the equivalent of a napalm strike on any castle or army that she wants destroyed.

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This is a completely out of context problem for a medieval army. It's why the Targeyerns were able to conquer Westeros centuries ago. Because any army or castle that stood before them could be destroyed from the air with impunity.



Dany's Dragons are growing up into invincible super weapons. She has every reason to let them get big and strong before setting out to conquer Westeros.
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Old 2013-05-13, 11:15   Link #707
Jaden
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Oh man, those dragons...they are like a ticking clock that's going to strike with absolute destruction. The bear looks cute in comparison. Also, it seems the eastern states are so heavily reliant on slavery that someone like Dany who's able to cause revolts is their greatest threat.

That wasn't a CG bear, by the way. There's actually a guy out there who trains bears...that blew my mind a little.
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Old 2013-05-13, 13:11   Link #708
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Oh man, those dragons...they are like a ticking clock that's going to strike with absolute destruction. The bear looks cute in comparison. Also, it seems the eastern states are so heavily reliant on slavery that someone like Dany who's able to cause revolts is their greatest threat.

That wasn't a CG bear, by the way. There's actually a guy out there who trains bears...that blew my mind a little.
I see the Dragons as organic Drones at the moment, sure they can fire a hellfire missile, but that won't stop an entire army. Once they grow into flying B-2 bombers then we got a problem.

I believe even Martin called them "Nuclear weapons."

Now interesting enough, how do you feed a dragon after it is fully grown? o_O That fire breathing must need a lot energy.
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Old 2013-05-13, 13:48   Link #709
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_Walker View Post

one thing though. . .Theon. Yeah I know Theon had his comming to him, but I think he's been tortured enough by now. . .why do they keep showing us this?
Continuity. Theon just kind of disappears in the books, so the show is giving us some content to explore what happened to him. It's also to introduce the boy torturing him..
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Old 2013-05-13, 19:03   Link #710
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Now interesting enough, how do you feed a dragon after it is fully grown? o_O That fire breathing must need a lot energy.
Simple. Dragons are magical creatures. Recall why the Warlocks grabbed them? Because being around the dragons enhanced their magical powers.

Frankly, even the baby dragons demonstrating their flame ability would seem to be contrary to most laws of conservation of energy. At the end of season 2 the Dragons were able to expel enough flame to set a man on fire. How'd they get the energy to do that from eating scraps of meat? (Scraps of meat that they cooked with flame).


Now undoubtedly the Dragons will still need to eat ALLOT. But it won't be as much as regular biology should mandate.


edit: The whole "Dragons=equal magic" thing is really emphasized in the book. The Warlocks had NO genuine magical powers until Dany hatched her eggs. In addition, it's implied that prior to the hatching, Wildfire was allot less energetic than it was when they used it in the battle of Black Water Bay.

If the mere existence of Dragons can make chemical reactions half a world away more powerful, questions about how they power themselves become a bit superfluous.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-05-14 at 07:57.
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Old 2013-05-14, 21:36   Link #711
Guernsey
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What do you make of this?

And this?
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Old 2013-05-14, 21:45   Link #712
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Simple. Dragons are magical creatures. Recall why the Warlocks grabbed them? Because being around the dragons enhanced their magical powers.

Frankly, even the baby dragons demonstrating their flame ability would seem to be contrary to most laws of conservation of energy. At the end of season 2 the Dragons were able to expel enough flame to set a man on fire. How'd they get the energy to do that from eating scraps of meat? (Scraps of meat that they cooked with flame).


Now undoubtedly the Dragons will still need to eat ALLOT. But it won't be as much as regular biology should mandate.


edit: The whole "Dragons=equal magic" thing is really emphasized in the book. The Warlocks had NO genuine magical powers until Dany hatched her eggs. In addition, it's implied that prior to the hatching, Wildfire was allot less energetic than it was when they used it in the battle of Black Water Bay.

If the mere existence of Dragons can make chemical reactions half a world away more powerful, questions about how they power themselves become a bit superfluous.
Actually, I believe it could be the other way around. The Era of Magic is returning. Remember, freaky stuff was happening even Pre-Dragon. (I.E Return of the White Walkers). Perhaps the coming of the red comet herald the return, rather than the coming of the dragons.

Regarding the books, the Wild Fire did not become more POWERFUL, it became easy to make. Tyrion was like "Are you shitting me that you suddenly just tripled production" etc. Remember, per Jamie the Wildfire Aries had would be enough to level the city...It is dangerous not because it can burn, it is dangerous is because IT CANNOT BE STOPPED EVEN BY WATER.

And as for the Warlocks, I don't recall they suddenly got more power either. It is not clear the Locks suddenly got power when Dany showed up, since the only people who called them weakling was Xaos (whats his name) who tried to bed Dany for her dragonling.


Also, I don't mean when the dragons @ current size. I meant when they are at max size like the skull in red keep. Something like that would need at least a cow a meal, and how would Dany deal with that logistic?
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Old 2013-05-14, 21:55   Link #713
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Even though I am no fan of "white savior" type of stories, I think people who dis Dany on this is just silly.

SHE IS 14 or 15 for pete sakes, try to put youself in her shoes. At least in the books it is spelled out she has a dream of a nation where people don't backstab each other, where husbands can go back to their wives and everyone is happy, she would rule from the Red keep and everyone will be fed and and free and love her. I understand HBO aged the characters +3 years to avoid "underage porn" and 13 years old leading armies, but this also made a lot of people to make the mistake of placing incorrect maturity levels.

She is really just another Sansa. A little 13+2 years? girl who is barely her teens. Sansa was weaned on being a high lady, she wanted to be the heroic Regnar (sic)

The only problem is while Sansa is locked up with little hope for freedom, Dany is running around with live WMDs.
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Old 2013-05-14, 22:08   Link #714
james0246
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Yeah I don't think were supposed to actually think of Dany as a Moral character per se. She is very childish and her actions often lack any real forethought beyond her immediate goals. Personally, I think the critiques are reading a little too much into her character and the various creators. Still they raise a valid point of contention that should be addressed by the creators at some point.
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Old 2013-05-14, 22:40   Link #715
Hitenma
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Dany is naive and she made many mistakes. Yes, you can say that she is naive because she is young.
Nevertheless, seeing a kid in charge of everything and cause countless death is annoying, no matter how you justify it.
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Old 2013-05-14, 23:13   Link #716
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
Dany is naive and she made many mistakes. Yes, you can say that she is naive because she is young.
Nevertheless, seeing a kid in charge of everything and cause countless death is annoying, no matter how you justify it.
Well, Robb and Jon are mass murders by that definition.

Ayra PERSONALLY murder people. Everyone is like ZOMG Aya spunk new age feminist heroine! But never minding the fact she is murdering people before she is even 10.
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Old 2013-05-15, 02:41   Link #717
Hitenma
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None of them acts like Dany.

I see her as a hypocrite. She condemned slavery while what she does is forcing other people do what she wishes by threats. What she said to the slaver in this episode is: Forfeit everything you have, but at least I spare your life, so be thankful (exactly what happened to Mirri Maz Duur). While the slaver is not a good guy, it doesn't make Dany good. Whether she is right or wrong doesn't matter, the point is she always think she is right and she threats to destroy anyone who doesn't do as she said. She is basically a tyrant.

If you use the young age as an excuse, then Joffrey is not a bad guy as well.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:41   Link #718
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
I see her as a hypocrite. She condemned slavery while what she does is forcing other people do what she wishes by threats. What she said to the slaver in this episode is: Forfeit everything you have, but at least I spare your life, so be thankful (exactly what happened to Mirri Maz Duur). While the slaver is not a good guy, it doesn't make Dany good. Whether she is right or wrong doesn't matter, the point is she always think she is right and she threats to destroy anyone who doesn't do as she said. She is basically a tyrant.
At the end of the US Civil War, that's what the North basically did to the South. It's a nearly perfect parallel. Not many would call the southern slave owners victims and the northerners tyrants.
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Old 2013-05-15, 08:24   Link #719
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
None of them acts like Dany.

I see her as a hypocrite. She condemned slavery while what she does is forcing other people do what she wishes by threats. What she said to the slaver in this episode is: Forfeit everything you have, but at least I spare your life, so be thankful (exactly what happened to Mirri Maz Duur). While the slaver is not a good guy, it doesn't make Dany good. Whether she is right or wrong doesn't matter, the point is she always think she is right and she threats to destroy anyone who doesn't do as she said. She is basically a tyrant.

If you use the young age as an excuse, then Joffrey is not a bad guy as well.
She didn't say forfeit everything, but allow each slave to carry on their back enough wealth for their years of service. Also, SoFI has no good or bad characters. All of them are flowed characters. Dany is a barely legal (if not still an minor) who want to be a Tangeryan dragon queen. She is flawed as they come, but not evil.
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Old 2013-05-15, 10:15   Link #720
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
At the end of the US Civil War, that's what the North basically did to the South. It's a nearly perfect parallel. Not many would call the southern slave owners victims and the northerners tyrants.
It's still called the War of Northern Aggression by quite a few (and don't get me started on the awful Lost Cause nonsense).

I don't see Dany as a hypocrite so much as naive and purposely straightforward in her intentions. She's detested slavery for quite some time (partially due to her own role as a metaphorical slave to her brother and her husband), and while she clearly has never sat down and tried to actually understand the countries she is attacking (not to mention what happens to those countries after she has destroyed them), it is clear that she has somewhat high ideals just shitty ways of expressing or enacting them. As Archmage says, she is flawed.
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